Asylum immigrants - Green Light

[Tightwad]

Nothing gets the gullible bleeding-hearts jumping up and down with anguish more than the sight of a “refugee”, looking as miserable as possible, clutching the wire fence with his lips sewn together.

"But remember, every day many people, especially young people, willingly “self-mutilate” by having metal rings, studs and dumbbells pierce their lips, tongues, noses, nipples, navels and other parts I won’t mention, all in the name of fashion. (Anyone for a “Prince Albert”?). Maybe sewing lips is not such a big deal once you overcome the fear of it.

You’d no doubt be horrified if a story emerged that “refugees” were continually stabbing themselves with needles, but people willingly endure this process every day in tattoo parlors.

You're implyng that it's all a big act. I don't really see the people working in these places and deciding they can't stand to see it any more, as being 'gullible'. These places are factories for mental illness.

Imprisoned people cutting themselves has little to do with what some young people are doing in the name of fashion and recreation (and whether it would horrify me or not).

 

[Tink]

Tink, I may have missed it, but I've never seen a definitive post from you actually setting out your beliefs on this issue.

You frequently do, as above, and endorse someone else, but I'd be interested to hear what you actually think should be happening, and why.

Hi Julia,

I have already said my view a few times in this forum, not necessarily this thread, that I dont understand why the carry on for the boat people when people are arriving by planes in droves.

Its all a political stunt in my view.

I agree that the smugglers should be prosecuted but the boat people are the innocent ones as I feel they are only looking for a better life.

Who would jump in a rickety old boat and travel to Australia and put their family in danger. They would have to be desperate.

 

[noco]

Hi Julia,

I have already said my view a few times in this forum, not necessarily this thread, that I dont understand why the carry on for the boat people when people are arriving by planes in droves.

Its all a political stunt in my view.

I agree that the smugglers should be prosecuted but the boat people are the innocent ones as I feel they are only looking for a better life.

Who would jump in a rickety old boat and travel to Australia and put their family in danger. They would have to be desperate.

These people fly from their home country to Jarkarta (Indonesia) and Kuala Lumpa (Malaysia) and then pay another $10,000 to people smugglers to bring to Australia in leaky wooden boats. Why don't fly direct to Australia?

 

[Tink]

Whichever way they come Noco, they still get processed the same. Probably easier for them via plane.

 

[noco]

Hi Julia,

I have already said my view a few times in this forum, not necessarily this thread, that I dont understand why the carry on for the boat people when people are arriving by planes in droves.

Its all a political stunt in my view.

I agree that the smugglers should be prosecuted but the boat people are the innocent ones as I feel they are only looking for a better life.

Who would jump in a rickety old boat and travel to Australia and put their family in danger. They would have to be desperate.

Tink, for the first time this year, boat-borne asylum seekers in Australia will outnumber those by aiecraft according to a report in the Austraian Newspaper today.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...m-queue-pays-off/story-fn59niix-1225975665987

 

[FxTrader]

FX, I would like to nominate you as our representative to tour as many Muslim countries as you can and preach your counter xenophobia to the radical Muslims who have a hatred for the Western World. Tell them to stop their violence. Tell them to stop killing and maiming men, woman and children. Tell them to cease stoning their woman for minor offenses. Tell them to stop manipulating and destroying the Christian faith. Tell them to love infidels instead of wanting to kill them as written in Koran. Get them to respect the Western World as you say it needs to be countered and opposed vigorously . Stop their predudice.
Do this FX and I'm sure we will have a more peaceful and stable world. Good luck in your attempt. If your game of course!!!!!

While I would not normally bother to respond to such frivolous and asinine drivel, your mention of Mulisms warrants a response. Jumping on the bandwagon of anti-Mulism sentiment here, you and another bigot are now drawing religious persuasion into this topic. While I definitely have a view on the liabilities of religious belief, that's another topic entirely. Create another topic here to expand on your scaremongering and prejudice against Muslims.

 

[sails]

Whichever way they come Noco, they still get processed the same. Probably easier for them via plane.

Tink, do you mean to come by airlines? If so, they would have to have passports and other paperwork to leave their international airpoirt to be able to board a place to come to Australia which is preferable IMO.

It seems the boat people destroy their paperwork so there is no way of knowing who we are letting in to live here. Boat arrivals instantly get air-conditioned accomodation, food, free medical, legal aid, etc. Maybe some are willing to take the two day boat trip for a life time of support for them and then ultimately their families. They even get paid to have babies in this country. The $10,000 boat trip plus a few grand in other plane fares would be a small outlay for a potential life time of support.

So the processing for boat people simply turning up paperless can't possibly be the same as those trying to get asylum here the right way. However, it seems they are being made to wait for lengthy periods, presumably because the boat arrivals are jumping the queue and getting instant monetary benefits from the day they put foot on Christmas Island.

Let me restate, again... I am not against genuine refugees. I am concerned at the potential loopholes that let anyone lob onto our shores claiming refugee status whether or not that is the case. And without paperwork, there is no history. We could be taking in wanted criminals for all we know. Surely we should be preventing people from rorting our system when Australia is currently struggling to look after her own needy people.

 

[sails]

...And I will restate, for the record, this is an area both governments have failed in - without any sort of regional cooperation (and as a priority, closer ties with Indonesia) the will be no solution, nor any real progress, in managing the issue.

Mofra, you may be right in that more should be done with Indonesia.

However, I am losing confidence daily that this current labor government is capable of fixing the problem. In fact, for that matter, any sort of problem. Seems that everything they touch is a mess.

At least Howard brought back security to our borders. It might not be the best solution, but at least he did something which is better than we have now.

There surely must be some boundaries to stop those who simply want to rort our system. The UN article clearly shows that many boat arrivals are not refugees.

 

[noco]

While I would not normally bother to respond to such frivolous and asinine drivel, your mention of Mulisms warrants a response. Jumping on the bandwagon of anti-Mulism sentiment here, you and another bigot are now drawing religious persuasion into this topic. While I definitely have a view on the liabilities of religious belief, that's another topic entirely. Create another topic here to expand on your scaremongering and prejudice against Muslims.

FX, once again your personal insinuations is the only way you know how to respond when you have painted yourself into a corner.

You can call me all the names you like it but will be like pouring water on a duck's back. Name calling is for school kids.

This xenophobia you keep on harping about should be a two way street. Unfortuneatly, because you are now caught up in your own web you have forgotten or don't want to know about the other side of the story and what is going on in the real world.

 

[noco]

Tink, do you mean to come by airlines? If so, they would have to have passports and other paperwork to leave their international airpoirt to be able to board a place to come to Australia which is preferable IMO.

It seems the boat people destroy their paperwork so there is no way of knowing who we are letting in to live here. Boat arrivals instantly get air-conditioned accomodation, food, free medical, legal aid, etc. Maybe some are willing to take the two day boat trip for a life time of support for them and then ultimately their families. They even get paid to have babies in this country. The $10,000 boat trip plus a few grand in other plane fares would be a small outlay for a potential life time of support.

So the processing for boat people simply turning up paperless can't possibly be the same as those trying to get asylum here the right way. However, it seems they are being made to wait for lengthy periods, presumably because the boat arrivals are jumping the queue and getting instant monetary benefits from the day they put foot on Christmas Island.

Let me restate, again... I am not against genuine refugees. I am concerned at the potential loopholes that let anyone lob onto our shores claiming refugee status whether or not that is the case. And without paperwork, there is no history. We could be taking in wanted criminals for all we know. Surely we should be preventing people from rorting our system when Australia is currently struggling to look after her own needy people.

As John Howard said,"we will decide who comes to Australia, not the people smugglers".

And as you say, there could be criminals fleeing their counrty or even terrorists. We should be selective and give preference to people with trade skills or professionals, not parasites who have always intended to live off the Australian tax payer.

Get rid of this incompetent government and give a new gpvernemnt the chance to clean up the mess.

 

[FxTrader]

You can call me all the names you like it but will be like pouring water on a duck's back.

The words and attitudes you display here are that of a prejudiced bigot, plain and simple. Any objective person reading your drivel would reach the same conclusion. The english language gives us words to adequately describe the attitudes and beliefs you've expressed here and they include bigotry, prejudice and xenophobia. Of course you're unconcerned about your bigotry, bigots never are by definition.

This xenophobia you keep on harping about should be a two way street. Unfortuneatly, because you are now caught up in your own web you have forgotten or don't want to know about the other side of the story and what is going on in the real world.

Actually xenophobia is a trait, one you possess in spades, and good to see that you don't deny it. Actually I am interested in the "other side of the story" as told by the people risking their lives to get here. I am already well informed as to the prejudices, fears and loathing of asylum seekers from the likes of your ilk.

 

[startrader]

While I would not normally bother to respond to such frivolous and asinine drivel, your mention of Mulisms warrants a response. Jumping on the bandwagon of anti-Mulism sentiment here, you and another bigot are now drawing religious persuasion into this topic. While I definitely have a view on the liabilities of religious belief, that's another topic entirely. Create another topic here to expand on your scaremongering and prejudice against Muslims.

This abuse that you have been directing to people on this forum for a while now is way out of line. None of your fellow posters deserves such a torrent of abuse when their only offence is to have opinions that differ to yours!

It is rather strange that you have such love and compassion for people who live on the other side of the world who you don't even know and yet display such hatred and venom to other posters on this forum.

 

[noco]

The words and attitudes you display here are that of a prejudiced bigot, plain and simple. Any objective person reading your drivel would reach the same conclusion. The english language gives us words to adequately describe the attitudes and beliefs you've expressed here and they include bigotry, prejudice and xenophobia. Of course you're unconcerned about your bigotry, bigots never are by definition.


Actually xenophobia is a trait, one you possess in spades, and good to see that you don't deny it. Actually I am interested in the "other side of the story" as told by the people risking their lives to get here. I am already well informed as to the prejudices, fears and loathing of asylum seekers from the likes of your ilk.

LOL FX. have a Merry Xmas and don't have too many nightmares over those asylum seekers. Tony will sort it as soon as he takes the reigns.

 

[noco]

This abuse that you have been directing to people on this forum for a while now is way out of line. None of your fellow posters deserves such a torrent of abuse when their only offence is to have opinions that differ to yours!

It is rather strange that you have such love and compassion for people who live on the other side of the world who you don't even know and yet display such hatred and venom to other posters on this forum.

startrader, MONOMANIACS generally get around with only one eye closed and are not interested in other peoples opinion.
They close that one eye so they can't see or don't want to see what is happening in our OWN backyard with thousands of homeless people living on the streets and pensioners who would love to have the same treatment as these illegal queue jumpers.
I say this incomponent Labor Government, "PUT UP THE FULL HOUSE SIGN".

 

[FxTrader]

This abuse that you have been directing to people on this forum for a while now is way out of line. None of your fellow posters deserves such a torrent of abuse when their only offence is to have opinions that differ to yours!

Leaping to the defense of the indefensible are you now startrader, nice try. If by abuse you mean references to bigotry and prejudice, then I make no apologies. If someone comes here and clearly displays such attitudes then you suggest this should be respected as legitimate opinion do you? Yes, intolerant hate and fear mongers in various guises have opinions, but I am not going to be pleasant about such attitudes. In general I have attacked revolting attitudes like blatant prejudice not individuals, try and keep that in mind as it's an important distinction.

It is rather strange that you have such love and compassion for people who live on the other side of the world who you don't even know and yet display such hatred and venom to other posters on this forum.

Let me correct you, I hate no one here but yes I despise bigotry, prejudice and xenophobia in all their various forms and so should any right minded person.

 

[It's Snake Pliskin]

The words and attitudes you display here are that of a prejudiced bigot, plain and simple. Any objective person reading your drivel would reach the same conclusion. The english language gives us words to adequately describe the attitudes and beliefs you've expressed here and they include bigotry, prejudice and xenophobia. Of course you're unconcerned about your bigotry, bigots never are by definition.

Yes, the English language has many words to describe various attitudes and situations. You have chosen the word 'bigot' which adequatly describes what you have displayed of yourself in your intolerance of a few other posters' opinions.

If we are to be a society of tolerant people - not just of other cultures - but of each other and opinion, whether right or wrong, we do need to be polite. You could make your point more effectively by being polite. I share your concern for the issue of racism, xenophobia etc, which can be found in any culture in any country.

What I would like to see in Australia is a more caring attitude toward foreigners and a more caring attitude toward those who live and were born here regardless of race - Australians. Having said that it is important to see less nonsense and less perceived negligent management of the situation where people feel they can come by boat without an ID to emigrate.

 

[FxTrader]

Yes, the English language has many words to describe various attitudes and situations. You have chosen the word 'bigot' which adequatly describes what you have displayed of yourself in your intolerance of a few other posters' opinions.

While I accept that you have a point here purely with regard to definitions, there is a nuance to consider. When opinions are expressed that foment fear, hatred, loathing and reinforce prejudice then yes, I am quite intolerant of such opinions and I think justifiably so considering the historical impact of such attitudes.

If we are to be a society of tolerant people - not just of other cultures - but of each other and opinion, whether right or wrong, we do need to be polite. You could make your point more effectively by being polite. I share your concern for the issue of racism, xenophobia etc, which can be found in any culture in any country.

In general I agree that being polite can be more persuasive in many situations. However, those who have chosen that route here with the likes of noco have hit a brick wall. Would be demagogs need to be shot down in flames lest their offensive intolerant rants and fearmongering gain traction.

Say I told you that in my "opinion" human slavery is appropriate, useful and I own a few slaves of my own who need to be beaten from time to time. Would you then politely disagree with me and respect my opinion or would you react with revulsion and codemnation? I suspect the latter. There are simply circumstances when politeness is an inadequate response.

 

[noco]

This is what is happening Sweden since allowing so many Muslim refugees into there counrty. There is also conflict between Muslims and Christians, where Muslims have become violent towards Christians. This could well happen here in Australia or any other Western Country for that mattter. There is determination to convert the world into an Isalamic state. Islam is not a religion; it is an ideology.

http://www.thelocal.se/29086/20100917/

 

[bellenuit]

I suggested previously that Australia should consider withdrawing from the Refugee Convention as it was written for a post WWII scenario and is unsuited for the problems of today. However, as every country must do its share, we should double our refugee intake, but only of those who come on our terms. I am sure this would prove less costly than the current scenario and at the same time help twice as many people.

It seems that others are thinking along those lines. This from today's The Australian (it also debunks the myth that there are no queues):

He (Mirko Bagaric, a Deakin University law professor who spent five years as a member of the Refugee Review Tribunal) has proposed a dramatic solution: more than doubling the offshore refugee intake to 30,000 annually while at same time permanently refusing refugee status "to any person who arrives on our shores unannounced".

Jumping asylum queue pays off

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...m-queue-pays-off/story-fn59niix-1225975665987

 

[Julia]

Thanks, bellenuit. I was about to also quote Prof Bagaric's remarks which make a lot of sense.

FX, suggest you read the link bellenuit has supplied. His background and experience make for an informed view.

And, btw, if you seriously think you are positively promoting your cause with your insults and pejorative language, you are mistaken.

Just out of interest, could you describe what first hand contacts you have had with asylum seekers/refugees et al? What have you personally done or contributed in a first hand way to these people?