Asylum immigrants - Green Light

[doctorj]

For me, there are two seperate issues. The first is the people that profit from this - the 'people smugglers'. They are breaking the law and endangering lives. They should be found and prosecuted.

The second issue is those they smuggle. People attach all sorts of labels to these people (religion, economic etc), without knowing a great deal about them beyond the broad stereotypes. For me, if they're desperate enough to spend days or weeks in a dodgy looking boat on open ocean (and bring their wives and young children along for the ride), they've probably got a good reason. Why else would they risk their lives?

Do they all have grounds for asylum? I don't know. What I do know is that people who have so much in life and have so little information about the situation shouldn't be so quick to judge.

 

[Chris45]

In 2006 Vivian Solon received $4.5 million compensation because of an Immigration Dept. mistake that led to her unlawful deportation back to the Philippines where she was born.

In 2008 Cornelia Rau received $2.6 million compensation because she was unlawfully detained at Baxter Detention Centre as a consequence of her not taking her schizophrenia medication.

Now, Muhamed Haneef has reportedly received about $1 million compensation because he was falsely accused of terrorism and subsequently wrongfully detained for a few weeks.

If you want to become an instant millionaire in this country, simply get yourself wrongfully detained in one of our comfortable detention centers for a while and then get one of our many bleeding heart lawyers to kick up a fuss. It’s easy!

A few weeks ago there was a report on TV about a Somali woman and her nine children (also refugees) being evicted from their rented house and she was having trouble finding suitable accommodation on her $1,000 per week ($52,000 per year) Centrelink handout.

Is it little wonder people are so desperate to get here by whatever means they can? Why pay your way in Indonesia when you can enjoy Australia's generous welfare? I don’t know how many of our bleeding heart refugee advocates pay taxes (I suspect many of them are either on welfare themselves or living off the refugee industry) but the hard working taxpayers of this country must surely be dismayed when they see how generous our Santa Claus governments are with their tax dollars.

 

[FxTrader]

I was disappointed to see you succumbing to the ultra left rhetoric and finding it necessary to issue unpleasant personal insults toward those who disagree with you.

If by "ultra left rhetoric" you mean having compassion, empathy and some regard for disadvantaged and desperate people then guilty as charged. The only "insults" (accurate descriptors in my view) are directed at those who deserve nothing better given their ultra right rhetoric. Unlike others here, I don't take pleasure in demonizing and denigrating asylum seekers.

As I said before, I believe we should be able to have this discussion without anyone stooping to personal assaults and unnecessary labels.

This thread is not a discussion Julia, it's a beat up and rant against desperate human beings who are not in a postition to defend themselves here. To bad you can't see that. BTW, I usually vote conservative.

 

[startrader]

My personal asylum seeker experience:

A few years ago when the Howard Government had its hard line Asylum seeker policy I felt sorry for the refugees and decided that I would do something, in a small way, to show that not all Australians wee uncaring, uncompassionate people. So I made contact through some organisation with a refugee living in Sydney. I picked him up from where he was living in Cabramatta one day and took him on a family BBQ. He was from a Middle Eastern country (I can't even remember which one now - I think it was Iraq). The gentleman had been refused permission to stay and was appealing the decision and I think the whole process had been going on for a few years and he was able to live in the community while it was going on.

We had a pleasant time but the thing that surprised me was when he told me that he had a son who was living here already as a permanent resident. The son was 35 and had six children. When I asked what his son did I was told "nothing". I thought there must have been a physical reason for this but when I asked about that I was told that, no, there was none. I think that what surprised me the most was he gave me the impression that his son wasn't going to be getting a job. 35 years of age, 6 kids, no job, no intention of getting one - not good.

That was my first and last experience as a bleeding heart.

 

[breaker]

Maybe Fx Trader could open his house to a few refugees, our welfare should go to our own no others who wont assimilate

White supremist is a bit harsh but if that what it takes to stop me and my kids learning the Koran then so be it

 

[Calliope]

I think that what surprised me the most was he gave me the impression that his son wasn't going to be getting a job. 35 years of age, 6 kids, no job, no intention of getting one - not good.

That was my first and last experience as a bleeding heart.

As Chris45 so aptly put it;

Is it little wonder people are so desperate to get here by whatever means they can? Why pay your way in Indonesia when you can enjoy Australia's generous welfare? I don’t know how many of our bleeding heart refugee advocates pay taxes (I suspect many of them are either on welfare themselves or living off the refugee industry) but the hard working taxpayers of this country must surely be dismayed when they see how generous our Santa Claus governments are with their tax dollars

 

[Calliope]

If by "ultra left rhetoric" you mean having compassion, empathy and some regard for disadvantaged and desperate people then guilty as charged.

And full of bulls**t.

 

[noco]

If by "ultra left rhetoric" you mean having compassion, empathy and some regard for disadvantaged and desperate people then guilty as charged. The only "insults" (accurate descriptors in my view) are directed at those who deserve nothing better given their ultra right rhetoric. Unlike others here, I don't take pleasure in demonizing and denigrating asylum seekers.


This thread is not a discussion Julia, it's a beat up and rant against desperate human beings who are not in a postition to defend themselves here. To bad you can't see that. BTW, I usually vote conservative.

So tell me FX, why is the United Nations Secretary telling the Australian Government to send these asylum seekers back to where they came from and why don't you sponser one or two yourself? I guess that would be out of your league to do something humane for desperate people after all your hype and rhetoric.

I've done my bit so why don't you.

 

[sails]

So tell me FX, why is the United Nations Secretary telling the Australian Government to send these asylum seekers back to where they came from ...

Here we go FX - here's t

I edited the post and then ASF timed out and took most of my original post with it...

 

[FxTrader]

And full of bulls**t.

Thanks for your insightful and intelligent critique, just what I expect from the red neck brigade here.

 

[ColB]

So tell me FX, why is the United Nations Secretary telling the Australian Government to send these asylum seekers back to where they came from and why don't you sponser one or two yourself? I guess that would be out of your league to do something humane for desperate people after all your hype and rhetoric.

I've done my bit so why don't you.

Ouch!! You surely must be getting a bit bruised by now FX.

Nothing wrong with putting your own views forward as to why we should be taking all these 'Illegals" but it would be a good idea not to attack the individual just because you don't like their view.

Hope your trading is not suffering as a result of this discussion as you seem somewhat unbalanced at the moment

 

[sails]

Will try again - here is the link to the article re the UN's statement which I posted in another thread:

This is exactly what some of us have suspected and now confirmed by the UN:

Send detainees home, says UN

AUSTRALIA'S immigration detention system is being clogged by growing numbers of rejected asylum seekers who should be sent home, the United Nations refugee agency has warned.

UNHCR regional representative Richard Towle said large numbers of people now coming through the asylum system in Australia were not refugees and ''the challenge is how to find fair and humane and effective ways of allowing them to leave this country to go home''.

(bold and underline is mine)

I feel we need to differentiate between those that are genuine refugees and those that are not. There are those who go through the proper channels and are approved as refugees but seems that many have to wait.

Those arriving by boat seem to have no papers so there is no knowing really whether they are genuine or not.

It seems that the UN believed that large numbers of these boat arrivals are not refugees and thereby are trying to enter this country illegally.

 

[FxTrader]

Surely we need to differentiate between those who are legitimate and those who are trying to enter illegally. There are refugees who have gone about this legally and through the correct sources and seems they are being made to wait. Presumably they have papers and they are approved. Then there are those who turn up on boats and supposedly without papers so there is no way of knowing whether they are genuine refugees or not. Apparently the UN believes most arriving by boat are not genuine.

Where exactly did I say that we should not differentiate? If the people arriving here are processed and deemed not to be legitimate asylum seekers then yes, send them back to their country of origin. The problems highlighted require thoughtful solutions such as (from the article)...

"Mr Towle ...called for greater regional co-operation and improved conditions in south-east Asia to prevent asylum seekers from making the perilous voyage from Indonesia. He said the problem had little to do with Australia's border protection policies, including a decision by Labor to scrap controversial temporary protection visas, but rather a ''protection vacuum'' throughout the region that had been forcing people to risk their lives on unseaworthy vessels."

So the "border protection policies" here will not solve the problem. This must come as a shock to most here who, if they have a solution, prefer the offshore prison camp approach or something even more draconian. Treat up badly and they won't come back. Perhpas we should do what, stop feeding them, let them drown at sea or make their lives as miserable as possible while they are here (or some combination of these). Just how low can the asylum seeker haters here stoop I wonder.

 

[noco]

Where exactly did I say that we should not differentiate? If the people arriving here are processed and deemed not to be legitimate asylum seekers then yes, send them back to their country of origin. The problems highlighted require thoughtful solutions such as (from the article)...

"Mr Towle ...called for greater regional co-operation and improved conditions in south-east Asia to prevent asylum seekers from making the perilous voyage from Indonesia. He said the problem had little to do with Australia's border protection policies, including a decision by Labor to scrap controversial temporary protection visas, but rather a ''protection vacuum'' throughout the region that had been forcing people to risk their lives on unseaworthy vessels."

So the "border protection policies" here will not solve the problem. This must come as a shock to most here who, if they have a solution, prefer the offshore prison camp approach or something even more draconian. Treat up badly and they won't come back. Perhpas we should do what, stop feeding them, let them drown at sea or make their lives as miserable as possible while they are here (or some combination of these). Just how low can the asylum seeker haters here stoop I wonder.

So FX, you are finally starting to see the light. Your argument has been shot to pieces RIP.

 

[FxTrader]

Ouch!! You surely must be getting a bit bruised by now FX.

Not at all, bring it on. Happy to mix it with the red neck brigade here since it's revealing to see how they justify their prejudice against, loathing and hatred of those "illegals".

Nothing wrong with putting your own views forward as to why we should be taking all these 'Illegals" but it would be a good idea not to attack the individual just because you don't like their view.

Well that "view" you think I should not attack is actually quite reminiscent of fascist ideology. I will never give such views a pass.

Hope your trading is not suffering as a result of this discussion as you seem somewhat unbalanced at the moment

Hardly unbalanced but yes, time to get back to trading.

 

[FxTrader]

So FX, you are finally starting to see the light. Your argument has been shot to pieces RIP.

Just how dumb can you be noco? I have never deviated from my line of argument and none of your drivel has refuted anything I've said here. You have succeeded though in bringing out the worst aspects of people's character here with your xenophobia and fearmongering, congratulations.

 

[noco]

Just how dumb can you be noco? I have never deviated from my line of argument and none of your drivel has refuted anything I've said here. You have succeeded though in bringing out the worst aspects of people's character here with your xenophobia and fearmongering, congratulations.

Thanks FX for the compliment. You don't appear to have too many agreeing with your argument though.

Have a Merry Xmas and don't let those asylum seekers get you down. It will all cease as soon as we get rid of this incapable Federal Government. Don't you worry about that!!!!!!!!

 

[chiasm]

My family and I came to Australia via boat as refugees, fleeing civil war. I always read comments on forums like this and wonder how many people commenting have ever been persecuted in their own country. I'm not talking about being a collingwood supporter, but actually having some of your family members killed and threatened with death. That's what happened with my family. My brothers and I are all professionals now and we all pay lots of taxes so that's at least 1 success story.

If anyone is interested Anh Do wrote an easy to read book, the happiest refugee telling his story about coming to Australia. His brother by the way was young Australian of the year a few years ago for helping homeless youths...another success story

 

[FxTrader]

My family and I came to Australia via boat as refugees, fleeing civil war. I always read comments on forums like this and wonder how many people commenting have ever been persecuted in their own country.

Most likely none chiasm so yes, the fortress Australia perspective promoted by some here is largely based on ignorance and indifference. Appreciate your comments on your personal experience and glad you're part of the Australian community.

 

[IFocus]

If by "ultra left rhetoric" you mean having compassion, empathy and some regard for disadvantaged and desperate people then guilty as charged. The only "insults" (accurate descriptors in my view) are directed at those who deserve nothing better given their ultra right rhetoric. Unlike others here, I don't take pleasure in demonizing and denigrating asylum seekers.


This thread is not a discussion Julia, it's a beat up and rant against desperate human beings who are not in a postition to defend themselves here. To bad you can't see that. BTW, I usually vote conservative.

LOL welcome to the forum FX as you might have noticed many here like serving labels but struggle on return serve with with the usual indignation of course.

Very nice to see some one put the other side of the argument along with a couple of others here.

I agree with your comments but of course vote labor being some what left of the communist party