Asylum immigrants - Green Light

[noco]

Could the plan be to do a deal with the UNHCR ?



With the boats stopped, we're perhaps in a position where we can.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-03-30/manus-island-asylum-seekers,-refugees-on-the-move/7284960

Yes Doc...so long as they can speak English, have a trade back ground, prepared to work and not over religious.

 

[drsmith]

It didn't take long for cracks to emerge in Labor's ranks.

A damaging split has opened in federal Labor over asylum seeker policy, with four MPs in the party's Left faction breaking ranks and calling for the 900 asylum seekers on Manus Island to be processed onshore and settled in Australia.

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...lits-over-asylum-seekers-20160428-gogw6u.html

 

[noco]

It didn't take long for cracks to emerge in Labor's ranks.



http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...lits-over-asylum-seekers-20160428-gogw6u.html

I would not be surprised if those 4 Labor MPs together with is SHY stirred up the PNG Government and the UN.

 

[SirRumpole]

It didn't take long for cracks to emerge in Labor's ranks.



http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...lits-over-asylum-seekers-20160428-gogw6u.html

4 MP's.

Big deal.

 

[luutzu]

I see from the above we have two potential solutions,

The first was the kind of idealistic thinking Labor had when they last came to office and we saw the results.

I'm not sure what the second is other than further avoidance of the question with an obscure mythical historical reference and further criticism of current policy.

It's always surprising to see how often the poor and the weak are being blame for the ills of the world.

One would have thought that if the poor were the ones stealing from the country or the people, they'd be a lot richer. Maybe the reason they're so poor and desperate is due to people stealing and taking advantage of them. Stole their opportunities for education; not paying them enough for the work they do; cheat them out of their land and home... nope, you poor because you lazy.

 

[luutzu]

I think that's how it would be, if they came with documentation.

Actually you probably would even be a bit easier on the lack of documentation, if asylum seekers weren't blowing people up all over the world, where they seek refuge.

It just takes a few radicals, to spoil it for genuine people.

In law, apparently, if border patrol hear that the illegal is seeking asylum, they will have to be taken in and have their claim heard. A country cannot turn asylum seekers around because they "illegally enter the border". That's why our smart lawyers in Canberra order border patrol to not ask, and probably not hear either.

Refugees aren't terrorists. They're running away from terrorists.

That's not to say they're all saints and all of them are law abiding.. They're people, and no group of people are all "good".

True that we don't have help anyone. It's a tough world and we ourselves are not getting any richer etc.

But as Chomsky and Zinn will tell you, these are the kind of policies the Masters of Man dream about: That the people, united will never be defeated (stolen from some union)... So let's divide them.

 

[luutzu]

I'll add to this a thing called the Law... Which Australia is in breach of...
And remind me what is the dollar figure, to the nearest ten thousand, to keep each of these people in the gulags.

A question. 'The Iraq illegal invasion was led by the left wing flower power brigade? please point me to the evidence of this. (reasonable people all over the world marched to no effect against the fevered minds of Bush and Blair)... I thought it was Right wing imperialist over reach. And where are a good percentage of the displaced of the world now coming from?




Shanghai goes under.

There's no doubt a few that will join you in the Ayn Randian fantasy world at the end of the rainbow Wayne. But try to keep in mind the fact that Rand died on welfare in a quarsi commune.
For reality you could read up on Dickensian England.
as a note. When, the progressive, Bismarck introduced the old age retirement pension at 65yrs. average life extectency was 60. sell that to your disciples.

Did you just wake up and write that orr?

Coffee and breakfast are the most important meals of the day

 

[noco]

In law, apparently, if border patrol hear that the illegal is seeking asylum, they will have to be taken in and have their claim heard. A country cannot turn asylum seekers around because they "illegally enter the border". That's why our smart lawyers in Canberra order border patrol to not ask, and probably not hear either.

Refugees aren't terrorists. They're running away from terrorists.

That's not to say they're all saints and all of them are law abiding.. They're people, and no group of people are all "good".

True that we don't have help anyone. It's a tough world and we ourselves are not getting any richer etc.

But as Chomsky and Zinn will tell you, these are the kind of policies the Masters of Man dream about: That the people, united will never be defeated (stolen from some union)... So let's divide them.

But if we allow those 900 refugees to come to Australia and they are given jobs, won't the unions being screaming from the roof tops that we have allowed foreign workers to take their jobs or will the unions turn a blind eye?

 

[luutzu]

But if we allow those 900 refugees to come to Australia and they are given jobs, won't the unions being screaming from the roof tops that we have allowed foreign workers to take their jobs or will the unions turn a blind eye?

No, the jobs the refugees will work at will be cash on hand, tax free and union free.

But they will create 900 new places for English as a Second Language teachers. The ATO can tax the teachers for the additional income.

Then there will be benefits to retailers and also small tiny sole trader who need a cheap labour willing to work hard for $50 or $100 a day (i've seen this, recently too). The Australian could get a cheaper price on that reno, ATO can tax the sole trader a bit more.

 

[noco]

No, the jobs the refugees will work at will be cash on hand, tax free and union free.

But they will create 900 new places for English as a Second Language teachers. The ATO can tax the teachers for the additional income.

Then there will be benefits to retailers and also small tiny sole trader who need a cheap labour willing to work hard for $50 or $100 a day (i've seen this, recently too). The Australian could get a cheaper price on that reno, ATO can tax the sole trader a bit more.

What a great idea.

 

[luutzu]

What a great idea.

Gotta use those emojis for sarcasm noco. I can't tell otherwise

Well it beats having to pay Broadspectrum (Transfields) a couple bucks, a couple more in under the table cash to more than a few foreign gov't officials, and the occasional trauma Counselor and surgeon for the treatable but delayed medical care resulting in death, that and the occasional hunger strikes, self harm... and setting themself on fire.

Anyway, I thought it's an Aussie thing to beat up the big dogs and tall poppies. Leave the beating up of refugees and illegals to the Americans and Europeans shall we.

 

[Tisme]

I see from the above we have two potential solutions,




The first was the kind of idealistic thinking Labor had when they last came to office and we saw the results.

I'm not sure what the second is other than further avoidance of the question with an obscure mythical historical reference and further criticism of current policy.

I see by your response you have tunnel vision with the LNP at the end of it. Why not just reply to all threads "whatever the LNP do I agree with" , hang up your pinny, then have a Bex and laydown to sooth the congenital discomfort

 

[Tisme]

Gotta use those emojis for sarcasm noco. I can't tell otherwise

Well it beats having to pay Broadspectrum (Transfields) a couple bucks, .

You do know that Transfields was a company set up by an Italian with subsequent strong ties to the Vatican? He ticked all the boxes for the recent new political power behind the LNP and ALP = diehard Roman Catholics. Jobs for the boys doesn't stop at the gates on the wharves.

 

[SirRumpole]

If you want alternatives mine would be:

1. Uninvited arrivals (UAs) are processed onshore and get Temporary Protection Visas only and will never be eligible for citizenship. Same applies to their children born here.

2. those UAs not found to be genuine refugees are locked up permanently untill they decide to return to their country of origin or another country takes them.

3. UAs who are genuine refugees are released and can work (and may be required to do so in return for benefits).

4. UAs are returned to their country of origin when it's determined safe to do so.

 

[luutzu]

You do know that Transfields was a company set up by an Italian with subsequent strong ties to the Vatican? He ticked all the boxes for the recent new political power behind the LNP and ALP = diehard Roman Catholics. Jobs for the boys doesn't stop at the gates on the wharves.

It's always the Catholics, isn't it?

Gangs of New York; Northern Ireland; Italian Mafia... LNP.

 

[drsmith]

I see by your response you have tunnel vision with the LNP at the end of it. Why not just reply to all threads "whatever the LNP do I agree with" , hang up your pinny, then have a Bex and laydown to sooth the congenital discomfort

You can offer as much personal reflection on me as you like.

It does not constitute an answer.

 

[luutzu]

You can offer as much personal reflection on me as you like.

It does not constitute an answer.

You make it sound like "turn back the boat" and offshore gulag is some kind of an answer Doc. Are they?

Why did the Hebrew flee Egypt? Or the Jew flee Europe? Or the Irish and their potato famine? The Chinese from China every new dynasty; the Viets from their comrades...

What were the solutions that stop those illegal activities?


Who knows, maybe people are running from their dictators, from the crazy warlords and terrorists, running from the carpet bombing and constant drone presence and a tomahawk here and there now and then. Some may even run because the drought and non-existence climate change just kill all their crops and they kind of have family to feed.

Maybe trying to stop the "rationale" for their fleeing might help stem the invasion. What, we got nothing to do with it now?

 

[drsmith]

You make it sound like "turn back the boat" and offshore gulag is some kind of an answer Doc. Are they?

The reasons you and other serial critics of the current government's policies struggle to offer a solution is that you conflate the movement of asylum seekers with broader social objectives.

A simple solution for example is for a deal between Australia and the UNHCR to take responsibility for those on Manus for a number of refugees to be accepted by Australia from the UNHCR. That closes Manus without encouraging the people smuggling trade.

Unfortunately, the UNHCR also seeks broader social objectives in the movement of asylum seekers with the human misery that results from illegal people smuggling an acceptable cost of achieving those objectives.

 

[luutzu]

The reasons you and other serial critics of the current government's policies struggle to offer a solution is that you conflate the movement of asylum seekers with broader social objectives.

A simple solution for example is for a deal between Australia and the UNHCR to take responsibility for those on Manus for a number of refugees to be accepted by Australia from the UNHCR. That closes Manus without encouraging the people smuggling trade.

Unfortunately, the UNHCR also seeks broader social objectives in the movement of asylum seekers with the human misery that results from illegal people smuggling an acceptable cost of achieving those objectives.

What we may fail to realise is that the people smugglers are not disheartened and discouraged if we do not accept refugees/illegals.

Are we serious that these people are honest dealers? They'd say to desperate people, ey... don't pay me money and go to Australia brother... they're nasty over there and you'll just be returned if you don't drown on your way. And if you make it, they'll imprison you to a much smaller island where there's no paradise.

I saw news doco where refugees on the Mediterranean said how the smugglers told them it's fine to be on a flimsy raft because the other coast is only 8 hours away etc. etc.

And these farkers have no issue with sending people to wherever as long as the cash are handed over. If it mean being rescued by some lefty or drown or suffocate... meehhh.

So if we're serious about stopping the boats and ending illegal smuggler's business, try to do something about people not having to risk at lives and flee.

Stopping wars is a very good start.

 

[noco]

What we may fail to realise is that the people smugglers are not disheartened and discouraged if we do not accept refugees/illegals.

Are we serious that these people are honest dealers? They'd say to desperate people, ey... don't pay me money and go to Australia brother... they're nasty over there and you'll just be returned if you don't drown on your way. And if you make it, they'll imprison you to a much smaller island where there's no paradise.

I saw news doco where refugees on the Mediterranean said how the smugglers told them it's fine to be on a flimsy raft because the other coast is only 8 hours away etc. etc.

And these farkers have no issue with sending people to wherever as long as the cash are handed over. If it mean being rescued by some lefty or drown or suffocate... meehhh.

So if we're serious about stopping the boats and ending illegal smuggler's business, try to do something about people not having to risk at lives and flee.

Stopping wars is a very good start.

And how do you stop wars?

That was supposed to be the job of the useless UN .....THE TOOTHLESS TIGER...What have they done in the past 60 years?

There will always be wars.... religion and ethnics are the main causes....There will always be greed and jealousy.

Islamic.....Communism.....socialism....capitalism.....religion...they will always clash.

One will try to force their ideology on the others and that is when the trouble begins......Like if you don't go my way I will chop off your head......If you chop off the head of one of fellow men I will bomb the $hit out of you.