Asylum immigrants - Green Light

[drsmith]

We know its those who died at sea that keeps you up at night and keeps you fighting for stronger borders.

One thing I don't stay awake for is for any tangible alternatives from the serial critics of the government's border security policies.

 

[Tisme]

I didn't expect you to have an answer to your own point but I'm also surprised to see you slip off that hollow moral pedestal with a personal slur.

More like self deprecation..... you really don't figure in the eqtn as all that important, so no slur intended... you are entitled to your own perversity as am I. Not sure where you get the idea i have morals to require a pedestal.

 

[drsmith]

Not sure where you get the idea i have morals to require a pedestal.

You repeatedly critique and push the human suffering line in that critique without offering an alternative.

What's your alternative ?

As far as I'm concerned we have a sovereign right to keep undesirables out, but electioneering and points scoring has blurred that, with both sides culpable.

I won't describe anyone as undesirable as you have in your post above but rather repeat the above question from it as follows,

How would you exercise our sovereign right in relation to border protection ?

 

[sptrawler]

We know its those who died at sea that keeps you up at night and keeps you fighting for stronger borders.

I thought it was just a right to know the identity of someone coming into the Country, that requires strong borders?

Much like why we check what food and vegetable matter people are bring in, to protect our agricultural products.

What do you think? just open up the borders to all and sundry?

 

[moXJO]

What do you think? just open up the borders to all and sundry?

They don't have answers... just moral outrage.
It's like the whole labor debacle has been swept under the carpet.

 

[luutzu]

You repeatedly critique and push the human suffering line in that critique without offering an alternative.

What's your alternative ?


I won't describe anyone as undesirable as you have in your post above but rather repeat the above question from it as follows,

How would you exercise our sovereign right in relation to border protection ?

How about we try this:

People, for some reason, got on a boat, cross a few seas, risk life and death to come knocking on our door.

We answer the knock. Ask that they sit in some fenced off area while we check their claims against our international obligations, our charity, our duty as a human being (maybe)...

Then if they fail to meet the conditions we have signed and obligated under; if theyy were neither oppressed or face danger if returned... we send them home. Otherwise, we either welcome them, give them a chance in life here on our soil.. or give some other country a call if we're too poor or too strap for cash to help.

That kind of solution I can come up with in two minutes. Costs us much much less than what we're paying Transfield or whatever name they've changed to now... and maybe in the not too distant future it serves our national interests to, one, not upset the neighbours; two, show the kids we're not total a holes and that they ought to care for others and not just themselves; three, people facing death but are saved; people with nothing but are given an opportunity; people with poverty stricken family and relatives back home... they tend to work harder, law abiding, and generally grateful and obligated people who will love the country, know its value and will defend it.

That or we tow them back, or if too late because they came too close so towed offshore camp somewhere... and make them living examples of our ballz and serious toughness to defend our borders and sovereignty from starving, sea-sick people cramped on leaky boats. So take that would-be invaders!

----

You know how Australia export coal and have this love of fossil fuel and meehhh attitude towards Climate Change? It's making us billions right?

Guess what happen when sea level rises by a few metres?

Dutton can crack his joke again... then there's some tens of millions of Indonesians just up north of us with livelihood flooded and island home destroyed... Guess where they'll go first. Not bloody Europe.

 

[sptrawler]

How about we try this:

People, for some reason, got on a boat, cross a few seas, risk life and death to come knocking on our door.

We answer the knock. Ask that they sit in some fenced off area while we check their claims against our international obligations, our charity, our duty as a human being (maybe)...

Then if they fail to meet the conditions we have signed and obligated under; if theyy were neither oppressed or face danger if returned... we send them home. Otherwise, we either welcome them, give them a chance in life here on our soil.. or give some other country a call if we're too poor or too strap for cash to help.

That kind of solution I can come up with in two minutes. .

I think that's how it would be, if they came with documentation.

Actually you probably would even be a bit easier on the lack of documentation, if asylum seekers weren't blowing people up all over the world, where they seek refuge.

It just takes a few radicals, to spoil it for genuine people.

 

[Tisme]

I thought it was just a right to know the identity of someone coming into the Country, that requires strong borders?

Much like why we check what food and vegetable matter people are bring in, to protect our agricultural products.

What do you think? just open up the borders to all and sundry?

Just like we check people at airports as they enter, obviously so should boat people.

One of the things that we don't seem to consider is how the same calibre people sitting in concentration camps appear to be in their many thousands already resident here and enjoying our welfare handouts and legal services.....when did that happen and who was guarding the gate for that to happen?

 

[Tisme]

You repeatedly critique and push the human suffering line in that critique without offering an alternative.

What's your alternative ?


I won't describe anyone as undesirable as you have in your post above but rather repeat the above question from it as follows,

How would you exercise our sovereign right in relation to border protection ?

Yeah, but the real truth of your pestering is to have some sport with me and then you get all bent out of shape when you don't get the subordinate reaction you are looking for ...

In the off chance you really do want to engage in non partisan discussion:

IMO the current policy plays on the fear of our citizens that we have barbarians at the gate and that hysteria has been manufactured by the new right that is an imposter of the original Liberal Party.

That is not to say that relaxation of border protection is warranted, just that the whole thing has been politicised for votes..... we just don't know the truth with kneejerk Labor bookended with arrogant LNP one side and bleeding heart Greens the other .... it's not a well arranged bookshelf.

While the parties play wedge games, the already resident fifth column is enjoying its immunity from scrutiny and building its sectarian neighbourhoods that have become beacons for believers around the globe. We are simply not addressing the bait that is attracting the people in the first place. The naivety that our lifestyle and standard of living is the reason for the migration shows how arrogant we are in thinking primitive cultures actually value us.

My stage 1 solution is to first cut off the Gorgan's head, then see if the numbers drop; clean up our backyard as it were, instead of standing on the beach and shouting hooray as the invader is turned around at great cost, not only financial, but also in cultural divide within our community.

 

[orr]

That kind of solution I can come up with in two minutes. Costs us much much less than what we're paying Transfield or whatever name they've changed to now... and maybe in the not too distant future it serves our national interests to, one, not upset the neighbours; two, show the kids we're not total a holes and that they ought to care for others and not just themselves; three, people facing death but are saved; people with nothing but are given an opportunity; people with poverty stricken family and relatives back home... they tend to work harder, law abiding, and generally grateful and obligated people who will love the country, know its value and will defend it.

That or we tow them back, or if too late because they came too close so towed offshore camp somewhere... and make them living examples of our ballz and serious toughness to defend our borders and sovereignty from starving, sea-sick people cramped on leaky boats. So take that would-be invaders!

----

I'll add to this a thing called the Law... Which Australia is in breach of...
And remind me what is the dollar figure, to the nearest ten thousand, to keep each of these people in the gulags.

A question. 'The Iraq illegal invasion was led by the left wing flower power brigade? please point me to the evidence of this. (reasonable people all over the world marched to no effect against the fevered minds of Bush and Blair)... I thought it was Right wing imperialist over reach. And where are a good percentage of the displaced of the world now coming from?

Guess what happen when sea level rises by a few metres?

Shanghai goes under.

There's no doubt a few that will join you in the Ayn Randian fantasy world at the end of the rainbow Wayne. But try to keep in mind the fact that Rand died on welfare in a quarsi commune.
For reality you could read up on Dickensian England.
as a note. When, the progressive, Bismarck introduced the old age retirement pension at 65yrs. average life extectency was 60. sell that to your disciples.

 

[moXJO]

The cost per detainee now, compared to the 50000 that flooded in would not be in the same ballpark.
Do we fail to take into account that we take in refugees and have increased numbers?

How's Europe doing with their walk in policy?

 

[noco]

The cost per detainee now, compared to the 50000 that flooded in would not be in the same ballpark.
Do we fail to take into account that we take in refugees and have increased numbers?

How's Europe doing with their walk in policy?

I would like to know how many of those 50,000 are gainfully employed and how many are still living off the Australian tax payer....the bludgers.

If they were in Russia they would be sent to work in the salt mines.

 

[SirRumpole]

I would like to know how many of those 50,000 are gainfully employed and how many are still living off the Australian tax payer....the bludgers.

If they were in Russia they would be sent to work in the salt mines.

That's actually a fair point.

I see no problem with using refugee labour on public projects if there are no other applicants for the jobs.

If they want to work, we let them stay, if not, back to wherever.

 

[drsmith]

I see from the above we have two potential solutions,

People, for some reason, got on a boat, cross a few seas, risk life and death to come knocking on our door.

We answer the knock. Ask that they sit in some fenced off area while we check their claims against our international obligations, our charity, our duty as a human being (maybe)...

Then if they fail to meet the conditions we have signed and obligated under; if theyy were neither oppressed or face danger if returned... we send them home. Otherwise, we either welcome them, give them a chance in life here on our soil.. or give some other country a call if we're too poor or too strap for cash to help.

That kind of solution I can come up with in two minutes. Costs us much much less than what we're paying Transfield or whatever name they've changed to now... and maybe in the not too distant future it serves our national interests to, one, not upset the neighbours; two, show the kids we're not total a holes and that they ought to care for others and not just themselves; three, people facing death but are saved; people with nothing but are given an opportunity; people with poverty stricken family and relatives back home... they tend to work harder, law abiding, and generally grateful and obligated people who will love the country, know its value and will defend it.

That or we tow them back, or if too late because they came too close so towed offshore camp somewhere... and make them living examples of our ballz and serious toughness to defend our borders and sovereignty from starving, sea-sick people cramped on leaky boats. So take that would-be invaders!

My stage 1 solution is to first cut off the Gorgan's head, then see if the numbers drop; clean up our backyard as it were, instead of standing on the beach and shouting hooray as the invader is turned around at great cost, not only financial, but also in cultural divide within our community.

The first was the kind of idealistic thinking Labor had when they last came to office and we saw the results.

I'm not sure what the second is other than further avoidance of the question with an obscure mythical historical reference and further criticism of current policy.

 

[Ves]

What's your alternative ?

Just A Modest Proposal, really.

But I think Jonathan Swift was onto something... in fact, in Australia's case the processing facilities have already been put in place and there are, evidently, from the lively discussion in here, well stocked up in advance. All it would take is some imagination to re-mould the idea for our modern circumstances. Efficient and economical.

In fact, call it irony, but this whole debacle, could really open up new markets for Australia's dying export industry.

That's certain to appease the Business Council of Australia and pretty much anyone else who would stand in the way of such a sensible policy. The prime minister of the time may even be able to sneak in a few cuts (oh dear) to middle age welfare, by using some of the finished product, as ahem, a sweetener, free of charge.

 

[drsmith]

On matters current, it appears the government has been caught on the hop regarding the PNG court ruling and the subsequent government decision regarding Manus.

Peter Dutton was only ever installed as immigration minister I suspect because government felt border protection was effectively reduced to a caretaker role with the boats stopped. At the moment however, the role demands somewhat more.

 

[drsmith]

Just A Modest Proposal, really.

But I think Jonathan Swift was onto something....

That too reads like another criticism of current policy without offering a practical alternative.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Modest_Proposal

 

[Ves]

That too reads like another criticism of current policy without offering a practical alternative.

Does it? I should have added a disclaimer: Sense of humour required.

 

[drsmith]

Does it? I should have added a disclaimer: Sense of humour required.

Sense of humour noted.

 

[drsmith]

Could the plan be to do a deal with the UNHCR ?

Mr Dutton is in Geneva where he will meet with the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees, Filippo Grandi.

The issue of Syrian refugees is expected to dominate discussions and Mr Dutton told the ABC it was possible Australia could increase its intake ”” currently at 12,000 ”” in the future.

With the boats stopped, we're perhaps in a position where we can.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-03-30/manus-island-asylum-seekers,-refugees-on-the-move/7284960