Asylum immigrants - Green Light

[explod]

Abbott a success, you have got to be joking.

All he has managed to do is divide society with hate and war mongerring.

He has also had our debt limit increased to half a trillion. The talk of the debt of the previous government is an infinitesimal amount compared to the majority of countries overseas. because this is just dumb smokescreen stuff.

And it was previously established practice to borrow and invest for the future. And today interest rates are at record lows.

We are a bit off topic now from the Asylum Immigrants. Wonder where Abbot came from, naar they old not want him back.

 

[bunyip]

Abbott a success, you have got to be joking.

All he has managed to do is divide society with hate and war mongerring.

He has also had our debt limit increased to half a trillion. The talk of the debt of the previous government is an infinitesimal amount compared to the majority of countries overseas. because this is just dumb smokescreen stuff.

And it was previously established practice to borrow and invest for the future. And today interest rates are at record lows.

We are a bit off topic now from the Asylum Immigrants. Wonder where Abbot came from, naar they old not want him back.

Stopping the illegal boats coming was one of his successes – the Greens-backed Labor government cost us 12 billion dollars with that little exercise in stupidity, a figure than has no doubt blown out much further by now due to the ongoing cost of keeping those people in detention while they’re processed.
Getting rid of the carbon tax was another sensible move by Abbot – it was an unnecessary burden on industry that was costing jobs while having negligible effect on greenhouse gas emissions.

Anyway, we’re well and truly off topic now, as you’ve pointed out. So how about we leave it there and if you want to go on criticizing Abbot, then I’m sure there must be another thread better suited to the topic.

 

[sptrawler]

Abbott a success, you have got to be joking.

All he has managed to do is divide society with hate and war mongerring..

Didn't the Labor/Green coalition support and fund the last war, during their term of office?

He has also had our debt limit increased to half a trillion. The talk of the debt of the previous government is an infinitesimal amount compared to the majority of countries overseas. because this is just dumb smokescreen stuff...

Wasn't the debt limit increased, as Labor/Greens had racked up the spending to the old limit?
Or are you trying to say, the debt was racked up in the six months prior to the limit being raised?

And it was previously established practice to borrow and invest for the future. And today interest rates are at record lows.
..

It would have been nice if Labor/Greens had employed that ideology whilst in office. Rather than $300billion in non productive debt, that they splashed out.

Like you said best get back on thread "How to pay for 50,000 asylum seekers".

 

[explod]

Not at all Bunyip, the policy of shutting out people in such desperate need is inhumane.

Abbott is wrong.

The carbon tax was not unprofitable at all. Only for big polluters of course, in industries very mechanised and on the whole not huge employers at all.

 

[drsmith]

As a young professional I was very much influenced by the extreme patience and tolerance of the Victoria Police in the early 70s, led then by Mick Miller the Chief then. Also Politicians such as Dr Jim Cains and later Bob Brown. All very tolerant and peaceful people.

In the Vietnam Demonstrations we were trained to have constraint, contain and certainly aggression by our members was not tolerated. And it's effect was few arrests or injuries and we did not carry firearms at all.

Having later worked in police research think tanks for some years I do know that the sociological approach of Governments are designed to divide and I do know how and that the situations could be reversed back to a peaceful society.

We currently live in a peaceful society in Australia, at least relative to those who threaten that peace.

You (and the Greens for that matter) could always go the IS controlled areas of the middle east and try to reverse that group back into a peaceful society.

On second thought, that's not a good idea. You'll finish up on a Youtube video but not for the reason your hoping.

 

[explod]

Didn't the Labor/Green coalition support and fund the last war, during their term of office?




Wasn't the debt limit increased, as Labor/Greens had racked up the spending to the old limit?
Or are you trying to say, the debt was racked up in the six months prior to the limit being raised?




It would have been nice if Labor/Greens had employed that ideology whilst in office. Rather than $300billion in non productive debt, that they splashed out.



Like you said best get back on thread "How to pay for 50,000 asylum seekers".

The debt was normal spend on such things as increasing education to lower income areas, since quashed and the normal processes of Government.

If done right we could set the asylum seekers up into a more focused immigration scheme and put them on lands making them produce and support themselves. There are not millions of them FGS.

Of course joining the wars of the middle east is in principle increasing the asylum seeker problem so in turn we should help those effected by our engagement.

 

[drsmith]

If done right we could set the asylum seekers up into a more focused immigration scheme and put them on lands making them produce and support themselves.

Done right is through government programs. That's the status this government has restored by stopping the boats.

It's not by the illegal people smuggling that Labor and the Greens encouraged while in office.

 

[bunyip]

Not at all Bunyip, the policy of shutting out people in such desperate need is inhumane.

Abbott is wrong.

People in desperate need are right here in our own country. If you’re so humane then you could always take a few dozen of them into your own home and look after them at your expense and risk.

We’re now paying hundreds of millions of dollars in interest on the debt that Rudd and Gillard, supported by the Greens, racked up by allowing the illegal boat people to come flooding in. Given the way the inflow was rapidly increasing, we would have been completely swamped by illegals by now if Abbot hadn't taken decisive action to put a stop to it. Our economy would have buckled under the strain, and the resulting social problems would have been immense.

Despite what you and the Greens and the UNHCR seem to think, our responsibility is first and foremost to our own country and its citizens, not to everyone around the world who for whatever reason has problems they want to escape.
And if we do want to help foreigners by bringing them into our country, then there are far better choices than selecting them from incompatible religions and cultures that dislike us and want to change our country and laws to suit themselves, and are a burden on our economy from day one because they lack the language and job skills to secure gainful employment.

 

[noco]

The debt was normal spend on such things as increasing education to lower income areas, since quashed and the normal processes of Government.

If done right we could set the asylum seekers up into a more focused immigration scheme and put them on lands making them produce and support themselves. There are not millions of them FGS.

Of course joining the wars of the middle east is in principle increasing the asylum seeker problem so in turn we should help those effected by our engagement.

That Fabian Society girl called Julia Gillard opened the flood gates to the Muslims to divide the community, create dissension and she was very successful in what we are suffering today.

 

[explod]

Arash Sedigh and those who share similar views don't see the flow of rehabilitation in the same direction you do.

Yes, well instead of all of us presenting as aggressive we should be exploring why? and methods of peaceful solutions.

NOT ONES THAT ARE GOOD FOR THE MANUFACTURERS AND SUPPLIERS OF WEAPONS.

Pollies are pawns.

 

[explod]

Done right is through government programs. That's the status this government has restored by stopping the boats.

It's not by the illegal people smuggling that Labor and the Greens encouraged while in office.

Not quite true. Labour were attempting to deter by holding as many as possible offshore.

There is a considerable amount of bias on this thread from the right and from the ire at times I do not think you are intoto entirely convinced.

 

[Ganyeka]

For starters they are not "illegals". They in fact have a well recognized legal right to seek asylum. They are not "refugees" until their claim for asylum has been assessed. Calling them "illegals" criminalises them and their conduct, marginalises them as a group and is emotive BS.

And here's something I've never been able to understand, and I was a registered migration agent for 15 years and a lawyer for longer - keeping people in detention is bloody expensive. Doing it offshore doesn't change that. Applying resources to actually, heaven forbid, ASSESSING THEIR CLAIMS would mean that we can keep them in this prohibitively expensive and largely inhumane detention system for a much shorter period of time and save a significant amount of money. But where's the deterrent value of acting with fiscal responsibility and efficiency right? Better the word gets out that we're gonna lock you up for years and treat you like animals if you have the temerity to flee oppression and likely death. And how is getting expedited assessment and sent home fast a lesser deterrent anyway to people who are scared $hitless of exactly that? Its why they're risking their lives to flee in the first place.

And we keep them offshore so they are outside the "migration zone". If they get inside the migration zone for assessment of their asylum claims and are refused, they have all sorts of appeal rights and who the hell can be bothered offering due process and natural justice to some "illegal" economic migrant who really just wants to drive a beat up Camry and live in Western Sydney right? So we intercept them and send them to Christmas Island I think it was under Howard, which was legislatively excised from the Migration Zone whilst still techically being part of Australia - and wherever the latest BS idea dictates now, Cambodia or something. That way when we screw up your claim for asylum and decide to send to you home, where a substantial number of rejected asylum seekers are subsequently killed, and when it turns out you really weren't joking about the whole being in danger thing, you can't appeal the decision of the overworked and one-eyed Immigration Officer operating under things called Procedural Advice Manuals that tell them how to ignore settled law on all sorts of things and interpret the law the way the Minister for Immigration says - and ask someone qualified, oh you know, like a JUDGE, to review the decision.

The whole thing is broken and it relies on divisive and incorrect language to whip people into a rage over something that is really a storm in a teacup. There isn't some flood, some slavering hoard of Muslim fundamentalists about to over run our way of life unless we act like complete arseholes to the most underpriveleged and at risk people on the planet.

What we need to do is train and hire a decent number of reasonably smart people and form a specialised Asylum Unit within the department of immigration, resource them appropriately and actually process a claim in a couple of months instead of a couple of years and longer. Fine, do it outside The Migration Zone so the Courts aren't over run with appeals. But if people are in detention, at least have the decency and common sense to get the claims dealt with FAST and get them either in or out so it doesn't cost us Billions and doesn't leave vulnerable people and innocent children in substandard detention facilities to rot for years on end. Its f@#king embarrassing on so many levels.

 

[drsmith]

What we need to do is train and hire a decent number of reasonably smart people and form a specialised Asylum Unit within the department of immigration, resource them appropriately and actually process a claim in a couple of months instead of a couple of years and longer. Fine, do it outside The Migration Zone so the Courts aren't over run with appeals. But if people are in detention, at least have the decency and common sense to get the claims dealt with FAST and get them either in or out so it doesn't cost us Billions and doesn't leave vulnerable people and innocent children in substandard detention facilities to rot for years on end. Its f@#king embarrassing on so many levels.

We have reasonably smart people running immigration.

They are Scott Morrison and Angus Campbell.

They have stopped the boats and that's the most effective way of satisfying the dual objectives of managing our border security and emptying the detention centres.

 

[drsmith]

Not quite true. Labour were attempting to deter by holding as many as possible offshore.

There is a considerable amount of bias on this thread from the right and from the ire at times I do not think you are intoto entirely convinced.

Labor were only dragged to offshore processing as a consequence of the number of boat arrivals becoming so politically unpalatable that they had to be seen to be doing something.

Let's not forget it was Labor's unwinding of the Howard government's policies that reignited the problem in the first place.

You don't like the fact this government has stopped the boats.

 

[noco]

Labor were only dragged to offshore processing as a consequence of the number of boat arrivals becoming so politically unpalatable that they had to be seen to be doing something.

Let's not forget it was Labor's unwinding of the Howard government's policies that reignited the problem in the first place.

You don't like the fact this government has stopped the boats.

Plus the fact that the Green/Labor left wing socialist coalition had all the detention centers full to over flowing and had no where to hold illegals.

The Green /Labor turmoil resulted in a botched agreement with PNG.....TGLFU.

 

[IFocus]

I’m not trying to bully you into changing your views - you can hold whatever views you wish and frankly I don’t give a toss.
But when your views are so completely narrow that you have nothing but criticism for someone who in just 12 months in office has already fixed up some of the problems created by the incompetent morons that you voted into power, then I and others are going to tell you, quite rightly, that you’re narrow-minded and you lack credibility.
Neither Abbot nor any other politician is perfect and none of them are above criticism. But you’re a blind fool if you can’t see that he’s had some successes among what your think are his failures.
And if you’re not a blind fool, then start being honest enough to at least acknowledge that some some of the policies he's implemented are good for Australia, and were completely necessary to correct serious mistakes made by Labor.

Still waiting

If you have a contrary argument put the case, note those that cannot personalise the argument or revert to personal attacks.

 

[Julia]

Not at all Bunyip, the policy of shutting out people in such desperate need is inhumane.

You might like to comment on the reality that all the people Labor's Open Borders policy allowed to flood in effectively brought to a stop our Humanitarian Resettlement Program, given authorities were completely overcome by the need to process boat arrivals.

Do you really think it's right that people who have often trudged hundreds of miles on foot, eventually making it to one of the many refugee camps that exist in squalor throughout the world, being then shown to definitely be genuine refugees, should spend in some cases more than ten years in such camps whilst people wealthy enough to pay many thousands of dollars to people smugglers should step off their boats in designer clothes carrying expensive electronic equipment are processed before them?

Yes, well instead of all of us presenting as aggressive we should be exploring why? and methods of peaceful solutions.

NOT ONES THAT ARE GOOD FOR THE MANUFACTURERS AND SUPPLIERS OF WEAPONS.

Pollies are pawns.

Right. A few days ago Medicowallet suggested we could send the Greens over to Iraq and Syria to negotiate a solution.
Since you believe so strongly that 'a peaceful solution' is achievable, perhaps we could send you as "Australian Ambassador to ISIS".
You could negotiate your peaceful settlement with them to the advantage of the whole world.

Are you seriously suggesting this fanatical murderous bunch are up for negotiation? How did that go for the Alawite Muslims and Christians in northern Iraq? Not too well, I believe.

 

[bunyip]

For starters they are not "illegals". They in fact have a well recognized legal right to seek asylum. They are not "refugees" until their claim for asylum has been assessed. Calling them "illegals" criminalises them and their conduct, marginalises them as a group and is emotive BS.

None of us is entitled to pay a criminal to perform an illegal act on our behalf. If we do, we’re breaking the law and are judged to have conducted an illegal act along with the criminal.
People who come here uninvited by boat have paid criminals called people smugglers to bring them. In so doing they have acted illegally, they are therefore ‘illegals’ by any reasonable definition.

The whole thing is broken and it relies on divisive and incorrect language to whip people into a rage over something that is really a storm in a teacup. There isn't some flood, some slavering hoard of Muslim fundamentalists about to over run our way of life unless we act like complete arseholes to the most underpriveleged and at risk people on the planet.

A 'storm in a teacup' is it?
You must be living on another planet if you can’t see the immense problems that countries around the world have landed themselves with by allowing large numbers of Islamic immigrants to come in.
Take your head out of the sand and you just might realize that Islamists will cause exactly the same problems in Australia, and in fact are already starting to do so. It’s utter stupidity to speed up the onset of these problems by increasing our intake of people from Islamic countries. Especially when there are hundreds of thousands of people from non-Muslim countries who have applied through the legal channels to come here, and have the language and work skills to fit in right away and start making a positive contribution to our country, yet they’re being bypassed in favor of people who are a burden on us from the outset, who want to change our laws and reject our values and our way of life.
And just in case you’re tempted to tell me that most Islamic people are peaceful and they’re not like that.......I put it to you that most Germans were peaceful too, yet Germany was torn apart by a small number of extremists called Nazis. Watch the video on this link – don’t just ignore it, watch it – it just might open your eyes to what we’re letting ourselves in for by laying out the welcome mat to Islamists. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iI74lOgfxk4

You tell us ‘there isn't some flood, some slavering hoard of Muslim fundamentalists about to over run our way of life’.
My answer is that it doesn’t take a slavering horde of Muslims to ruin a country – all it takes is a handful of extremists to ride roughshod over the peaceful majority.
There are over half a million Muslims in Australia – if only 0.02% of them are radicals or become radicals, that’s 100 people with extremist views who pose a serious risk to our lifestyle and the security of our country.
They’re the ones brandishing signs saying ‘Death to those who insult Islam’, and ‘Behead those who insult the prophet’, and ‘Sharia law is the only law’, as they protest and incite violence and hatred over some film that was made overseas by someone with no connection to Australia.
They’re the ones running an Islamic bookshop that's a front for a recruitment center for fighters to leave our country and go over to Syria to fight on the side of the extremists, then return to Australia with their new-found skills and radical ideology.
They’re the ones who are rotting in jail for planning mass murder at our military bases.
They’re the ones planning public beheadings of innocent people right here in Australia.
They’re the ones who are making plans that we don’t yet know about, plans that will sooner or later be carried out despite the best efforts of our police and security forces to sniff them out before they strike.
Yet you tell us this is all just ‘a storm in a teacup’!!??
And it doesn’t even take radicals to force changes that are negative for our country. A meatworks in my area that exports to a couple of Islamic countries has been forced to employ a small number of Muslim slaughtermen to ensure the cattle are killed according to Islamic custom. This handful of Muslim workers have demanded that the meatworks build a new lunch room and toilet block for Muslims only. The meatworks has complied with that request, meaning that the non-Muslim workers are discriminated against by being banned from using the Muslim-only facilities. You might say ‘So what – it’s only a small change that doesn’t really have much of an effect on anyone’.
Maybe so, but it’s an example of how, little by little, even peaceful Muslims are forcing change on our country. Why should that be? If you were desperate to leave Australia and you found another country that was willing to take you in, would you expect that country to make changes just for you? Would you try to change that country so that it was more to your liking? Or would you show your appreciation to your new country by having the decency to do everything you possibly could to fit in with the people, their laws and customs?
Again, I urge you to watch this short video if you haven’t already done so. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iI74lOgfxk4

And while you're at it, here's another link that might help you to extract your head from the sand.
http://www.smh.com.au/comment/signa...-been-building-for-years-20140924-10lhon.html

A 'storm in a teacup'? I don't think so!

 

[bunyip]

Everyone here knows I think Abbott is a lying egotistical moronic tosser with a long history of form which he has and is.

If you have a contrary argument put the case.

Still waiting

I’ve already given you a contrary argument to your constant criticism of Abbot by pointing out that, to his credit, he’s fixed up some of the problems created by Rudd and Gillard, neither of whom you criticized despite their six years of grossly incompetent government.

 

[Tisme]

.

Do you really think it's right that people who have often trudged hundreds of miles on foot, eventually making it to one of the many refugee camps that exist in squalor throughout the world, being then shown to definitely be genuine refugees, should spend in some cases more than ten years in such camps whilst people wealthy enough to pay many thousands of dollars to people smugglers should step off their boats in designer clothes carrying expensive electronic equipment are processed before them?

We had many years to figure out those £10 POMs and Italians weren't worth the investment ...didn't we.... they weren't worth it were they...were they?

Besides how can the uncultured fit into a multi cultural society; it's just not natural.