Worst drought ever

[Happy]

I wander what would happen if all non-salty water after treatment was pumped inland, not into ocean.

Surely would increase available vapour for condensation and subsequent rainfall.
We all know that every drop of water we consume could have been anything.

I followed -Biosphere- projects and to some extent what happens to water on spacecraft.

-Biosphere- project turned out to be fraud run by University graduates from University that didn’t exist, but the concept in itself was interesting and could be continued with anybody.

You don’t have to have degree to live in closed sphere. A lot of the concept was common sense.

As previously mentioned, we don’t have to go too far with our imagination, how recycling can effectively replace our usual water needs to just topping up the water we lose in vapour from cooking and breathing.

This also can be captured with run of the mil dehumidifiers.
Recent comments on effective filtration stated that we only have to pay 1 to 2 cents per litre of recycled pure water.
It is 7 to 10 times more to what we have to pay now for tap water. It is much more, but if there is no water in the dam, then price means nothing.

 

[chops_a_must]

Apparently, these farmers that would "do anything for water" do not want recycled water.

They should come back and complain when they are actually serious about their situation.

 

[2020hindsight]

I've stuck a post in on poetry thread #141. Another letter from a winging bushie - crying poor ITS Bludy UNAUSTRALIAN!

 

[2020hindsight]

Apparently, these farmers that would "do anything for water" do not want recycled water. They should come back and complain when they are actually serious about their situation.

Chops - this post follows our recent exchange on US elections etc - we've established approx ages etc -

When I was young I went to a bush wedding - I thought I'd contribute to a "running joke" about it being a shotgun wedding, (evryone laughing) by making some joke (forget what). BUT I had it all wrong - I assumed that it was the BRIDE who was under duress under these circumstances lol.

Anyway - I was dunked in a horse trough for my troubles, clothes and all lol.

NOW ...
If either of us was to walk into a bar out in a drought region and say in a loud voice what you just said , i.e. "Apparently, these farmers that would "do anything for water" do not want recycled water. They should come back and complain when they are actually serious about their situation"

THEN ...lol
I can GUARANTEE you that we would be dunked in a trough. Might even be a small white trough and prior to it being flushed ( given that we introduced the topic) - AND btw, it wouldn't make much difference because the water in the horse trough outside (or the local creek) would be just as filthy!!

 

[chops_a_must]

I think a worse punishment would be them forcing me to drink Adelaide water. :

 

[2020hindsight]

I think a worse punishment would be them forcing me to drink Adelaide water. :

see - I knew we'd agree on something!! - albeit totally peripheral to the thread lol.
correction - relevant to the worst drought - but totally peripheral to your original objections about the bushie's case.

 

[chops_a_must]

The ironic thing?

Adelaide people drink water that has already been recycled many times, they just don't know it.

I know another problem, here in Perth at least, is that some councils have made it very difficult for people to put grey water systems in. Which to me, seems pretty silly.

 

[2020hindsight]

they just don't know it.

You GOTTA be joking !! Of course they know it -
Furthermore, the Toowomba vote on recycling water was the biggest insult to alleged Aussie intelligence ever. overheard in voting stations:-
a) land prices might fall (?? because they would have had the cleanest water around IF it was recycled!!?)
b) I'm not drinking anything that's been through a TOILET!! - ( well try it after it's washed down a dairy floor lady!)
c) I might grow BREASTS!! ( well give up chicken for a start!!!)
d) I don't know about anyone downstream!! - did you say that they have to drink our effluent !!! yuckk!!! well then tsst tsst - that's THEIR problem!!! first in, first to have a piss!!, and the rest can just - EAT CAKE!! annn..d DRINK COKE!!

 

[chops_a_must]

Ahhh, the ABC is great.

The recycled water is cleaner than dam water anyway. It's not like there are going to be bondi cigars floating around everywhere.

It has to be legislated that every new home be built with a grey water system. That's the first step.

 

[Royce]

My thoughts are that we should stop all overseas payments to who ever & direct the billion plus we pay , to helping our farmers now !
Your thoughts please

Bob.

Not too sure what you mean...Do you want to stop aid to poorer nations, or refuse assistance to victims of earthquakes, Tsunami and starvation etc .

Your being very mean spirited aren'y you.. If farmers want to stay on the land , they should be growing drought resistant crops.

Royce.

 

[2020hindsight]

Ahhh, the ABC is great.The recycled water is cleaner than dam water anyway. It's not like there are going to be bondi cigars floating around everywhere. It has to be legislated that every new home be built with a grey water system. That's the first step.

a). m8 - the ABC is the best 8cents I spent today that's for sure.
b). dams ? well for a START you have to fish out the dead and dying animals.
c). Grey water - yep. You'll probably find they are way ahead of you on sharing the water they washed their teeth in etc
btw, the dam probably won't qualify as grey water, because
d) it will hardly qualify as mud let alone water
e) the colour will probably be mud-brown - possibly a bit of grey if it happens to be a grey kangaroo dead in there , etcetc

Like we're all saying , at least half of us , on this thread, this is a crisis.

 

[Bobby]

Not too sure what you mean...Do you want to stop aid to poorer nations, or refuse assistance to victims of earthquakes, Tsunami and starvation etc .

Your being very mean spirited aren'y you.. If farmers want to stay on the land , they should be growing drought resistant crops.

Royce.

royce , as you said your not sure what I mean, so until you do don't post .

Learn how to spell ! whats ( aren'y ) ?

 

[chops_a_must]

royce , as you said YOUR not sure what I mean, so until you do don't post .

Learn how to spell ! whats ( aren'y ) ?

Ahem!

 

[Royce]

Ahem!

Haven't you ever done a typo dick brain....get a life and post something worth reading.

Better still go suck a bomb.


Royce

 

[Bobby]

Haven't you ever done a typo dick brain....get a life and post something worth reading.

Better still go suck a bomb.


Royce

royce ,

Don't be offensive , or you will find your membership will be short.

 

[Royce]

royce ,

Don't be offensive , or you will find your membership will be short.

Sorry Bobby didn't mean to offend....certain people get on my nerves. ..high on the list would be racists, time wasters and smart alecs.

Royce

 

[Smurf1976]

Hmm... A lot of people seem to be of the mind that if this is a 1 in 1,000 year drought, then surely next year should see the dams overflowing. Well, if climate change is REALLY upon us, what are the chances of this "1 in 1,000 years drought" happening again next year and the year after etc ... IE becoming THE NORM???

So, here's some food for thought...

Figures from the Murray Water Authority from 6 Nov so actually a bit worse by now:

HUME DAM at 10% and falling by 1% a week. Less than 3 months till empty....

DARTMOUTH DAM (which feeds Hume Dam) at 43% and falling at 2% a week. Less than 5 months till empty...

BLOWERING DAM 31% and falling at 1% a week. Less than 8 months till empty.

Those are three of the largest water supplies in the system. All the other minor dams combined only make up a small fraction of those three.

Currently, the outflow from Dartmouth dam is at MAX. The Mitta River is running a banker to try and slow the rate of fall from Hume dam. But it is failing to top up Hume dam even at the current extreme outflow rate! Hume dam has reduced it's outflow but I believe is forced to maintain near the current rate to satisfy demand downstream as far as Adelaide... without the flow, Adelaide would be in serious trouble.

The much vaunted back-up of the Snowy system which is supposed to provide a minimum amount for town's drinking water needs along the Murray system in case of failure of the Dartmouth and Hume dam systems is shrinking daily...

Agreed about the high outflow rate from Dartmouth etc. One of the potentially serious issues is loss of power generation from these sources. Hume doesn't contribute a lot but Dartmouth is 150MW - not huge but significant in an already tight power supply situation.

But the elephant in this context is the Snowy. Sure, we could let more water out of the Snowy right now to fix the lack of water in Hume. But if that goes to the point of actually running the storages to zero then we lose the Snowy's power generating capacity. Now, that's 3740 MW (including Blowering) which is a lot by any standard, at least in the Australian context.

There is no realistic way, especially now with unit 6 (of 2, the numbering is historic) at Vales Point power station out of action following the explosion this week, that NSW / ACT / Vic / SA combined power demand could be met (at times of peak demand) without the Snowy. Well, OK, it could if we don't get a hot Summer (but a hot Summer is exactly what we're expecting), Vales Point gets a new transformer sorted out and nothing goes wrong in any of those states and also Qld and Tas are able to maintain maximum exports at peak demand times then it could work. Possible. But the odds are strongly against it.

So in practice we need the Snowy to remain operational at least partially no matter what happens with rainfall. That's going to mean not running the Snowy storages down to zero no matter how bad it gets with water in the Murray. Doing so would only delay the inevitable and add an entirely new problem, lack of power, to the consequences of the drought.

It's worth noting that there's only 666 GL left in Lake Eucumbene (the major Snowy storage) which is just over 15% full versus 1718 in Dartmouth and 308 at Hume. Hence the Snowy is no "silver bullet" to fix the problem.

In short, we're potentially in massive trouble and the Snowy offers no solution, apart from the generation of peak electricity, until such time as it actually rains.

 

[Smurf1976]

Look at it this way. If the dams weren't there the situation would be much worse.

Absolutely true. But try telling that to the "No Dams" brigade...

One of the biggest problems is that we just haven't been expanding water supply infrastructure especially in the cities. Now we're stuck with what seem to be permanent restrictions.

The problem with that approach is it leaves no room to move in the future when another drought occurs or something else goes wrong. We already have harsh restrictions because we didn't expand supply in line with population- now what? The inevitable answer is that at some point Melbourne especially will see bans on showers, clothes washing and the like.

Through all of this I can't help but think that the decision to abandon big dam construction in Tasmania (and immediately after in the other states) is looking more environmentally reckless by the day. An annual increase in greenhouse gas emissions, due to hydro power foregone, equivalent to putting another 800,000 cars on the road whilst the Greens mutter something about climate change being the cause of the drought. It takes the hipocrisy of politics to a new level altogether.

Time to build at least one major new dam in every Australian state in my opinion (possible exception of the NT). Mainland states and ACT for irrigation and town/city water supply, Tasmania as a source of renewable energy. A far more sustainable approach than running nuclear powered desalination which is where we seem to be heading at the moment.

Uranium is finite whereas at some point it will rain. We need to be ready to catch that rain when it falls because at some point there will be another drought. Yes this will need a subsidy - just like nuclear (or wind or solar) power, wars and all the other things our taxes get spent on. At least water and infrastructure is actually useful and will be around for generations to come.

As for the politics of it all, I only wish I'd taped that public meeting I was at in 1998 when the (Liberal-Green) Tasmanian government spokesman assured me that drought wasn't something worth worrying about - "that happened in the 1960's, we've moved on a lot since then you know..." or words to that effect. Fool.

 

[2020hindsight]

Absolutely true. But try telling that to the "No Dams" brigade...

Dam it all Smurf - you are one smart dude

 

[chops_a_must]

Absolutely true. But try telling that to the "No Dams" brigade...

One of the biggest problems is that we just haven't been expanding water supply infrastructure especially in the cities. Now we're stuck with what seem to be permanent restrictions.

In WA, every river that can be dammed has been. Every other river has become brackish, or was brackish to begin with. This is what stopped the Swan from being dammed in the first place.