Wellington Capital PIF/Octaviar (MFS) PIF

[Mary Lynch]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

I am in Melbourne Rocky. Only too happy to help. Just say the word, and I'll be there.

email: mlynch48@bigpond.com or ph. 97754874, or 0414895799

 

[communique]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Tuart - Thankyou for your regular advice, information and input. It is gratifying to know that people with integrity and honesty still exist.

 

[breaker1]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

MAJOR UPDATE # 7 (Part 1)

WE ARE NOW 103 INVESTORS IN THE PIF ACTION GROUP

A super thanks to all who have contributed to achieving this critical number - this gives us respectable potential.

Matters of main interest outcomes from my discussions with PIF Managing Director - Jenny Hutson

The $50 million MFS LTD Support Facility (SF)
There has been serious concern expressed that this SF would immediately expire on the PIF being transferred to a new RE, namely Wellington Capital (WC). Jenny has expressed to me that she advised Octaviar that she would not undertake the new RE role, as a condition, unless she could gain access to the SF. She therefore, negotiated a signing of an "amending deed" to the PDS, to extend PIF access to this SF. It should be remembered that the $50 m SF is part of the remaining assets of MFS LTD, it was explained that there are 5 creditors lining up for this MFS LTD money, so investors should not expect 100c (or anywhere near it, perhaps south of $25M). The ranking of all 5 creditors including the PIF is equal.

Living and Leisure Australia (LLA)
LLA owes the PIF approx $63 million and Jenny had begun negotiations with them on behalf of the PIF 02/05/08. She advised me that the NAB ranks first for any money available from its sale or liquidation, the PIF ranks second. When asked what she would expect the PIF to receive, the answer was, as negotiations continue, the % changes every day. I could not press her on the % $ value. The second creditor ranking is a plus for the PIF.

Some in the Action Group are pushing for the PIF to convert this L&L debt to us, into equity or a controlling share in L&L, possibly in a partnership with Packers Arctic. The idea being that it would be a cash producing business with PIF investors waiting longer for cash realization. Jenny advises that WC has explored this option and are looking at it from the view of what will provide maximum % return to the fund - this will be a matter of negotiation as well.

Causeway Boutique Fund $50
This outstanding money owing to the PIF is often not addressed or even known. Advised this facility is not fully drawn and is considered by WC to be run by a good operator (ex Merrill Lynch people). Jenny feels confident that these moneys will be realized, probably 100% - the bad news being, it will take 4.5 years to do so.

Centrelink / ASIC treatment of pensioner investors
Centrelink to continue to count former distributions, now stopped, as if they were still being paid, simply because the PIF is not in receivership and so farcically classed as viable by ASIC. I pointed out to Jenny that ASIC are the decisionmakers on this ruling. I asked if she could liaise with ASIC to get them to re-consider this "classed still viable" ruling. She agreed that this ruling was harsh and would be prepared to discuss this with ASIC, so long as the Action Group would be kind enough to find the appropriate ASIC officer that has the decision making capacity on this ruling on the PIF. I said, I have been given one contact name at ASIC already and would approach that officer shortly and get talks between the two parties.

ASIC involvement in PIFJenny would not be drawn into this and said that as a group we need to get that info from ASIC, but would comment only that. There was another point brought up by an AG member about ASIC, which I presented, but at present I feel it would be best kept to myself.

Distributions
After the contractual, RBOS, debt has been paid, recommencing distributions is Jenny's No.1 priority. It is seen by her as a matter of moral urgency. These distributions will not be done monthly, but quarterly.

The recommencement date of distributions will probably be advised at the forums in July but not before the Royal Bank of Scotland is paid out.

The percentage interest rate of the distributions is hoped to be similar to previous rates received, but the maximum will be the target and would be determined or defined by PWC view of the fund.

Will the distributions of interest lost by investors be backdated? No! Sorry about the bad news here. However, this may be an angle with which we and Jenny could press ASIC / Centrelink to reconsider how pensioners are/were deemed, perhaps, try for a backdated payment from C/L of non received monies that were deemed, but this is just speculation on my part (breaker), see how it pans out.

Will there be sufficient funds available in the PIF to cover distributions?
PWC need to complete there audit to allow a quality answer. It would not be totally paid out of profit or PIF derived income, but that distributions would be derived, part from 1] incoming profit and 2] part from existing capital (net assets). What percentage of each is up to PWC. This of course means that any of our % possible future redemption would be reduced by the proportion of the % coming out of existing capital assets in that distribution payment. In other words if the % was 50/50, and your monthly payment was $500, the amount taken off your investment lump sum would be (reduced) by $250 per mth - (an example only).

Hardship Early Redemptions
I put to Jenny the option of partial minor redemptions, immediate distributions or immediate distributions of investors own personal investment. No! Jenny said, she could not re-work this kind of debt within the broader fund interests. It was also felt that as recommencement of distributions are WC's main priority it was going to be answered that way.

Redemptions
Redemption request are pouring into the fund.

This is a major topic and will be complex.

This will be addressed under another header following.

Proposed WC should buy out some of PIF debt to justify WC management rights.
Felt that WC has already committed to pay OCV / MFS LTD for the management right. I said, should you not have paid any management rights payments to the PIF, the answer being that asset shares had to be bought to acquire the management rights and they are not in the PIF.

Jenny felt that her ability to negotiate the chance to acquire access to the $50 million MFS LTD Support Fund was her contribution to the PIF debt. She felt that the fund would may have gone into liquidation if she did not take quick action. Further, in that action, negotiating for the "deed amendment" in the PDS, for access to the SF, she felt confident, would not have happened otherwise.

Fee structure to be discussed under another header.
Wellington Capital will give formal proposals and the difficult issues to tackle, to investors at the forums in July.

She is aware of AG efforts to line up another RE

Can creditors of OCV / MFS LTD now gain access to PIF funds (QPT, NAB, Challenger, etc)?
No! The PIF is now a separate fund and isolated. Jenny felt that if it stayed there, there was the possibility of creditors accessing certain PIF monies if it went into receivership via receivers judgments on the matter.

WC Board membership by Action Group members
WC has several funds that are managed and it was considered unworkable for an AG member or two, to be on a board that represented more than one fund.

In the negotiation process, Jenny accepted the accommodation of a committee made up from the AG that could set up a formal structure of communication with Jenny and / or the WC Board for proposals for consideration. I pointed out our main goal was the maximisation of % return for investors. In that she said, we were in agreement. She offered that she did not have a monopoly of wisdom and agreed that we would not always agree.

Refinancing creditor for remaining RBOS debt
Confidential at present.

Where did RBOS debt payments come from
Selling assets - incoming payments from developers (customers) and selling actual physical assets (e.g., GEO $10.2 mill). Further debtors (customers) have that could have defaulted, have been encouraged to refinance (otherwise deficiencies in PIF would be higher.

Is the PIF still loaning money
No! The RBOS has first access to monies and incoming monies can't be recycled until RBOS paid off.

Will PIF loan monies again? All going well, it is hoped a good way down the track.




PART 2 to be posted shortly (NSX listing + other matters)
part two is the more complex and the more important

 

[erniel]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

It is most regretable that WC has not liased with us the investors of the PIF directly to date.

I would like to know from the new board of the RE for the PIF what the financial position of the PIF is.
Please could they furnish us with the financial management accounts that were used for them to excercise their call option.
In other words they need to provide us with a balance sheet and income statement that is dated the same day as when the call option was exercised. Explanatory notes need to be attached to the financials .
They would be unaudited, however I am led to believe that auditors are currently examining the books of accounts.
As investors in this fund we are entitled to them .

I would also think that if it can be proved that the RE board under Guy Hutchings acted in a irresponsible , negligent and fraudulent manner with our funds that we consider persuing them in the criminal courts.

 

[seamisty]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Tuart - Thankyou for your regular advice, information and input. It is gratifying to know that people with integrity and honesty still exist.

Yes thankyou Tuart for all your help and advice. Communique what area of QLD are you? If Breaker does not have time I am willing to make phone calls on behalf of the Action Group to link up people in common areas if he will provide me with contact details.I am in WA so not much help here unless there are other WA investors? Regards, Seamisty

 

[communique]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Seamisty, we are located at the Gold Coast.

 

[seamisty]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Seamisty, we are located at the Gold Coast.

Thanks, We lived there for 6 years and that is where we invested in the PIF. I will ask Breaker to supply me with details of other Gold Coast AG members if he is too busy and I will foward them to you or ask them to contact you, whichever you prefer. Please leave me a personal message on here with your phone or e-mail details and I will contact you tomorrow. Do you have any media contacts on the GC? I am hoping to get over there but not until a bit later in the year so won't be much help with support in attending meetings.Regards, Seamisty

 

[Ivor Watt]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

"Transparent market place"..seems like a crock to me. I was checking out that NSX today..noone trades anything. Who the hell is going to buy our units..at the rightful value? The only way they will sell it at severely reduced prices. Now how is that any different to appointing an administrator and getting 30c per unit. No way, that NSX looks like a joke..only 15 brokers..that's a farce!! Jenny if this is the best way of looking after us, you will not be the long term solution to our problems madame!! Our money will rot there or be sold for a pittance..NO WAY! Let's get a meeting soon!! I am speaking to Tuart and a solicitor to get a committee formed legally and then try and get a meeting where press may be invited prior to the July WC meetings / forums.

I would like to know why we can't vote on a moratorium whereby we get some funds when the bank is repaid, get returns in the interim and then me paid in a timely and orderly manner as all the assets are realised, better to wait a little now and get a decent and fair amount of our money back down the track, than to never be able to get it. I think we are in for a fight to try and own the fund as investors, as if the NSX is JH's answer, we are truly better off without her and WC...WHAT FOR???

I thought she was going to amalgamate her funds under management with ours..she keeps touting how much she controls in WC..so what, how does that help us? An experinced funds manager..she has been in business as WC for 2 years..WOW! Sorry but can anyone else see that this is really starting to stink. Why hasn't this letter gone to investors first???

Javier, I agree with everything you have said. The NSX has only 36 companies comprising 61 listings. the value of our units would just sit there being diluted down to nothing over who knows what period of time.

With regard to organising investor meetings before the 7 July it does not leave much time. I think the other approach of all investors voting on a moratorium at the arranged meetings for time to finalise the debt to RBOS either by refinancing or asset sales and an orderly realisation of assets to follow would be a better way.

We still have not heard from Breaker1 on his discussions and I believe any decisions on which way we should go will have to depend on what he has found out

 

[communique]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Seamisty, breaker has all contact details. Have worked in media and have contacts.

 

[seamisty]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Ivor, Breaker has posted his results from his contact with Jenny Hutson on this thread, just read back a bit. Comminique, I will contact you as soon as I get details from Breaker. He is pretty busy, there is a lot of work involved in bringing this together. Regards, Seamisty

 

[k.smith]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Dear Rocky1.....we are in Melbourne also and we will be there. There is no way known we are interested in NSX....the orderly realisation of assets is the only stability we have left. I am reading everything I can, you people are amazing, thank you, breaker1 , you are an inspiration. It is good to read some concrete feedback. ksmith

 

[Rocky1]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Ivor Watt

Please see entry #304 for breakers update. Well done breaker great job

 

[Rocky1]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

K.Smith

I will get your contact details off breaker (I assume he has them) and be in touch. If not let me know and we will arrange something else.

 

[Rocky1]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

THERE IS NO WAY I WANT ANY FUTURE DISTRIBUTION TO BE MADE UP WITH CAPITAL, THIS WOULD BE A JOKE.

 

[Towbar]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Tiger 50 I have been trying to contact Jane on her Fax number, there seems to be some problem, can you ask her to send me an an email My e-mail is <tobacox@aapt.net.au> & i live at the Southern end of the GC Cheers Towbar

 

[k.smith]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

THERE IS NO WAY I WANT ANY FUTURE DISTRIBUTION TO BE MADE UP WITH CAPITAL, THIS WOULD BE A JOKE.

NEITHER DO WE!!!!!!ksmith

 

[selciper]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

It would seem that WC have grossly underestimated the dynamics of the Action Group. Thanks Breaker1 and others. JH may well be meeting her Waterloo.The risks being taken by WC with their brand image is incredible. NXS - no, no and no! Being paid back a proportion of my capital in distributions - no, no and no! An investigation into all this - yes, yes and yes!

 

[Cookie1]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

My husband and I are already registered with Breaker for the Action Group. Thank you Breaker and all the others who are working so diligently on behalf of all PIF investors. We definitely don't want the fund listed on the NSX nor to receive distributions from capital. We have a substantial amount invested in the PIF and want to get it all back eventually.

Is anyone else in the AG in the Port Macquarie area? I'm willing to help out wherever I can and am happy to phone people to organise a meeting but am a behind-the-scenes kind of person.

 

[Dexter]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

We all appreciate the work done by Breaker1 on our behalf.

We are much wiser following his talk with JH.

Now that we have the numbers in AG I believe we should explore the possibility of appointing a liquidator to administer and wind down the PIF for a more expedient conclusion.

Following is an extract from the Brisbane Sunday Mail June 15, 'Money Section'.

"A liquidator is appointed to wind down a company, sell all assets,and pay as much debt as possible.

There are three ways a liquidator can be appointed to a company: through a court, voluntarily by its creditors, or by its members or shareholders.

Unlike a receiver, a liquidator will usually carry out a detailed investigation into the company's affairs on behalf of all unsecured creditors.

This includes looking at reasons why the company failed as well as possible offences.

Liquidators must lodge a report with the ASIC if they believe an offence has been committed.

They must call a meeting of all creditors within 11 days of being appointed and report their findings. From time to time the liquidator will call further meetings to keep everyone informed.

The liquidator will generally make payments in the following order: Liquidation costs; wages and superannuation payments; and unsecured creditors."

Would we be better off in the short or long term?

 

[Tuart]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Dexter your talk of bringing in an administrator or liquidator send shivers down my spine.

Please have faith in the ability of this group to form a compenent committee to represent your interests and for the numbers in this group to snowball and deliver you real power in your own future.

Adminstrators and liquidators have incredible cost bases and these groups only know how to sell sell sell. They are not in the business of sourcing new funds to assist in fixing problems.

We are all travelling blind here but what if you (PIF) have a loan to a development that needed more money to finish it. An administrator is not in the business of being lateral and finding commercial ways of completing the project and ensuring you get a full return.

Either the existing RE can bring lateral solutions to the workout to make sure you get all of your money back or collectively investors should get a group who can. This is not a role an administrator can do for you.

I know I sound like a broken record but you need a structure and an empowered committee.

How cool is it that you are over 100 people. Now lets get a structure to your group and push for full disclosure.