Wellington Capital PIF/Octaviar (MFS) PIF
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Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
ASX link for LLA is (follw link 'Company Announcements)
http://www.asx.com.au/asx/research/...s.jsp?searchBy=asxCode&allinfo=on&asxCode=LLA
It's full of weasel words like 'confident', 'understands', 'expects', 'every confidence' and 'BELIEVE'. All legally safe words that can be back tracked from. I should know, I teach others how to use such terms. We haven't seen 'anticipate' yet.
NEVER FORGET these doosies:
"MFSIM currently EXPECTS [emphasis added] to continue paying distributions at the target distribution rates*. Whilst no specific date has yet been set for MFSIM to recommence the processing and payment of redemptions, the Board EXPECTS [emphasis added] this process to resume well before the 180 day period" Guy Hutchings 29 January 2008.
My opinion: This announcement says nothing we don't already know. So it could be tactical, e.g. either a hurry along for WC or, if WC is a party to it, a smoke screen to subdue the Action Group.
Key phrase "We assure our stake holders that we believe the LLA recapitalisation proposal is in the best interest's of LLA's creditors and security holders". This is a classic veiled threat. Don't forget that PIF is a creditor.
I EXPECT to be paid a fortune for my skills but... it aint' goig to happen. Show me the money.
See www.weaselwords.com.au
ASX link for LLA is (follw link 'Company Announcements)
http://www.asx.com.au/asx/research/...s.jsp?searchBy=asxCode&allinfo=on&asxCode=LLA
It's full of weasel words like 'confident', 'understands', 'expects', 'every confidence' and 'BELIEVE'. All legally safe words that can be back tracked from. I should know, I teach others how to use such terms. We haven't seen 'anticipate' yet.
NEVER FORGET these doosies:
"MFSIM currently EXPECTS [emphasis added] to continue paying distributions at the target distribution rates*. Whilst no specific date has yet been set for MFSIM to recommence the processing and payment of redemptions, the Board EXPECTS [emphasis added] this process to resume well before the 180 day period" Guy Hutchings 29 January 2008.
My opinion: This announcement says nothing we don't already know. So it could be tactical, e.g. either a hurry along for WC or, if WC is a party to it, a smoke screen to subdue the Action Group.
Key phrase "We assure our stake holders that we believe the LLA recapitalisation proposal is in the best interest's of LLA's creditors and security holders". This is a classic veiled threat. Don't forget that PIF is a creditor.
I EXPECT to be paid a fortune for my skills but... it aint' goig to happen. Show me the money.
See www.weaselwords.com.au
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Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
WC website cites they had $600M under management. But I couldn't find any info on what returns WC was distributing to those investors. Anyone know?
WC website cites they had $600M under management. But I couldn't find any info on what returns WC was distributing to those investors. Anyone know?
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
In regard to the proposed meetings for unitholders by WC - have these dates and venues been confirmed yet and can we wait that long?
There could be a lot of water under the bridge between now and the meeting dates.
People have joined the Action Group because we want ACTION A.S.A.P.
I suggest that if meetings in each capital city are not confirmed by the end of the week, we organise our own, with or without the powers- that-be who are stuffing us around.
In regard to the proposed meetings for unitholders by WC - have these dates and venues been confirmed yet and can we wait that long?
There could be a lot of water under the bridge between now and the meeting dates.
People have joined the Action Group because we want ACTION A.S.A.P.
I suggest that if meetings in each capital city are not confirmed by the end of the week, we organise our own, with or without the powers- that-be who are stuffing us around.
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Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
I have had in depth discussions with the PIF new managing director Jenny Hutson this morning & afternoon in two stages.
Matters discussed have centred around our main concerns.
I will update all on these issues either this afternoon or tonight.
I have pressing matters to attend to in the mean time.
I have had in depth discussions with the PIF new managing director Jenny Hutson this morning & afternoon in two stages.
Matters discussed have centred around our main concerns.
I will update all on these issues either this afternoon or tonight.
I have pressing matters to attend to in the mean time.
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Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
Fantastic, thanks Breaker1. Thanks for volunteering your time. It's very much appreciated.
Fantastic, thanks Breaker1. Thanks for volunteering your time. It's very much appreciated.
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
I agree entirely ,which begs the question ,is this possibly the reason that wellington has become involved, do we now have another preditor within our midst.
I agree entirely ,which begs the question ,is this possibly the reason that wellington has become involved, do we now have another preditor within our midst.
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
The whole Living and Leisure deal has me baffled.
I have No idea how LLA could get a "loan" through Guy Hutchins and the PIF management - Then Through Perpetual "The non-existant custodians" to the PIF, then channeled through to Octaviar who were happy to pass on our money to a business in financial meltdown who were/are part of the MFS/Octaviar group.
I've read the PDS and it specifically states that the PIF will not lend money to related entities....did I miss something?
I hope that LLA open their wallets pretty wide because I think PIF Investors are owed an awful lot of money in Interest if it was a "loan".
The whole Living and Leisure deal has me baffled.
I have No idea how LLA could get a "loan" through Guy Hutchins and the PIF management - Then Through Perpetual "The non-existant custodians" to the PIF, then channeled through to Octaviar who were happy to pass on our money to a business in financial meltdown who were/are part of the MFS/Octaviar group.
I've read the PDS and it specifically states that the PIF will not lend money to related entities....did I miss something?
I hope that LLA open their wallets pretty wide because I think PIF Investors are owed an awful lot of money in Interest if it was a "loan".
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
Hi Premium Income Investors,
I am an investor like most of you and I am very concerned. I have a friend
Jane, who would like to be an active part of the Action Group immediately so could interested parties fax her on 0755337986 asap. There is a public meeting at the GC Convention Centre on 10th July and Jane wants to meet as many people before then and get the Action Group in full discussion well before that date.
Thanks, fax her info on how to reach you & she will get back to you. She lives here on the Gold Coast.
Cheers
Tiger50:
banghead:
Hi Premium Income Investors,
I am an investor like most of you and I am very concerned. I have a friend
Jane, who would like to be an active part of the Action Group immediately so could interested parties fax her on 0755337986 asap. There is a public meeting at the GC Convention Centre on 10th July and Jane wants to meet as many people before then and get the Action Group in full discussion well before that date.
Thanks, fax her info on how to reach you & she will get back to you. She lives here on the Gold Coast.
Cheers
Tiger50:
banghead:
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
My only concern with all these proposed meeting in the capital cities and the venues there to be held at is the cost to travel and hiring of these venues that will be paid for by us the investors.
I wonder how much money we are paying WC for looking after PIF, we have allready lost our distributions and it looks likely we won't get the full price we invested back.
I'm glad that there are smarter people than me looking after our interests and want to give them a big thanks from me and my mother.
It be great if everyone that attended these meetings had the logo that marcom designed printed out on a sticker and attached it to there body for everyone to notice who we are.
My only concern with all these proposed meeting in the capital cities and the venues there to be held at is the cost to travel and hiring of these venues that will be paid for by us the investors.
I wonder how much money we are paying WC for looking after PIF, we have allready lost our distributions and it looks likely we won't get the full price we invested back.
I'm glad that there are smarter people than me looking after our interests and want to give them a big thanks from me and my mother.
It be great if everyone that attended these meetings had the logo that marcom designed printed out on a sticker and attached it to there body for everyone to notice who we are.
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Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
Guy Hutchings was CEO. I'm guessing: because his boss told him to; i.e. MFS Ltd CEO King/MFS Ltd Chairman Peacock. And he didn't have what it takes to act against his board (MFS LTD) AND all his shareholders (MFS LTD) to prevent a breach of confidence with us that he was PAID to safe guard. Or CEO King/Chairman Peacock may have simply lied to Hutchings about the standing of LLA.
Guy Hutchings was CEO. I'm guessing: because his boss told him to; i.e. MFS Ltd CEO King/MFS Ltd Chairman Peacock. And he didn't have what it takes to act against his board (MFS LTD) AND all his shareholders (MFS LTD) to prevent a breach of confidence with us that he was PAID to safe guard. Or CEO King/Chairman Peacock may have simply lied to Hutchings about the standing of LLA.
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
Hi all Premuim Income Investors, Well said Wally3218. I too would like to say thanks to all you smart people looking after our interests. The lack of information available was very frustrating until I was directed to this forum by breaker1. Thanks again.
Hi all Premuim Income Investors, Well said Wally3218. I too would like to say thanks to all you smart people looking after our interests. The lack of information available was very frustrating until I was directed to this forum by breaker1. Thanks again.
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
Dear all
Please read the attached document and note that this was sent to Advisors NOT investors. I wonder when we are going to be put first and get some personal attention. Please note I had to remove the application form as the document exceeded the upload limit for this Forum. I suggest we all call WC and personally ask for a copy. This will also gives us an opportunity to express our dissatisfaction.
Wellington Capital Limited ACN 114 248 458
Head Office
Level 22 307 Queen Street
Brisbane Qld 4000
Sydney Office
Level 11, 6-10 O'Connell Street
Sydney NSW 2000
All Correspondence to
GPO Box 694
Brisbane Qld 4001
1300 368 848
T 07 3009 9800
F 07 3009 9893
E info@wellcap.com.au
Based on this I would like to propose that we crank the action group up, as I, like many others, do not want the PIF to be listed on the NSX (see details in attached doc) and be forced to receive pittance for my units compared to there true value. Unless JH can convince me this would be a good move, but she isn't doing a very good job at the minute
As such I want to get everyones thoughts on having AG meetings in all capital cities within the next week. At each meeting a rep can be elected. Once we have a committee I believe this gives us structure and power and a better meas of communication (SEAMISTY CAN YOU PLEASE ELABORATE HERE BASED ON OUR RECENT DISCUSSION - i.e TUARTS ADVICE).
Dear all
Please read the attached document and note that this was sent to Advisors NOT investors. I wonder when we are going to be put first and get some personal attention. Please note I had to remove the application form as the document exceeded the upload limit for this Forum. I suggest we all call WC and personally ask for a copy. This will also gives us an opportunity to express our dissatisfaction.
Wellington Capital Limited ACN 114 248 458
Head Office
Level 22 307 Queen Street
Brisbane Qld 4000
Sydney Office
Level 11, 6-10 O'Connell Street
Sydney NSW 2000
All Correspondence to
GPO Box 694
Brisbane Qld 4001
1300 368 848
T 07 3009 9800
F 07 3009 9893
E info@wellcap.com.au
Based on this I would like to propose that we crank the action group up, as I, like many others, do not want the PIF to be listed on the NSX (see details in attached doc) and be forced to receive pittance for my units compared to there true value. Unless JH can convince me this would be a good move, but she isn't doing a very good job at the minute
As such I want to get everyones thoughts on having AG meetings in all capital cities within the next week. At each meeting a rep can be elected. Once we have a committee I believe this gives us structure and power and a better meas of communication (SEAMISTY CAN YOU PLEASE ELABORATE HERE BASED ON OUR RECENT DISCUSSION - i.e TUARTS ADVICE).
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
Rocky I have just fowarded the contents of your post to Tuart and asked him would he please respond on the forum. I am extremely dissapointed in not being notified personally. I hope it is not the intention of WC to exclude holders from these meetings through lack of communication.Regards, Seamisty
Rocky I have just fowarded the contents of your post to Tuart and asked him would he please respond on the forum. I am extremely dissapointed in not being notified personally. I hope it is not the intention of WC to exclude holders from these meetings through lack of communication.Regards, Seamisty
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
I imagine WC and Octaviar and those involved are soon going to be under enomous pressure from many fronts. Government Ministers and shadow ministers are aware of the lack of disclosure and have been verifying facts and are begining to ask for more details.
I urge everyone to contact their Local federal member and ask them to work on your behalf. You might be surprised that some politicians sometimes do what they claim and actively work for their constituents.
Follow up the e-mails with phonecalls and ask them If they have followed it through. Quote the last time you spoke to them and ask to speak personally to your member.
I imagine WC and Octaviar and those involved are soon going to be under enomous pressure from many fronts. Government Ministers and shadow ministers are aware of the lack of disclosure and have been verifying facts and are begining to ask for more details.
I urge everyone to contact their Local federal member and ask them to work on your behalf. You might be surprised that some politicians sometimes do what they claim and actively work for their constituents.
Follow up the e-mails with phonecalls and ask them If they have followed it through. Quote the last time you spoke to them and ask to speak personally to your member.
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
Good evening all PIF investors
I agree that you should move forward with holding a meeting of your own.
I have suggested to a few members privately that you should form a "not for profit incorporated body". This is a simple structure used by many clubs and sporting associations.
It provides a structure, constitution and governing rules that allow your elected committee to best represent your interests. It also provides some legal protection for your committee who as this things grow are taking on a serious responsibility on your behalf.
This body can hold a bank account and meet costs and allows the committee to act collectively on behalf of its members.
The only members pf this body can be PIF investors so it remains for your benefit only.
Membership would be say $5 plus it would allow additional contributions based on each members circustances to create a fighting fund.
It gives you a collective power base and an efficient means to represent what I think will become a very large group.
As suggested I am sure the press will love to offer a meeting room, telephone and microphone in the different states to allow you to get together.
You need
- President
- Secretary
- Treasurer
Additional members in multiples of two
As also discussed I think that each member of the PIF Action Group (incorporated) should give a limited power of attorney to your committee that allowed them to call meetings with RE, negotiate with litagation specialists and other specified powers.
(A Slater and Gordan would love to know they can come to a committee and it represents a block of investors in any action)
To establish this body and prepare the power of attorney we are not talking huge costs and we are not creating any form of structure that is unusual.
Javier has had a brief discussion with a solicitor I recommended and I have also given her a briefing. Apologies if you think we are jumping the gun but need to get the ball rolling. The initial tasks are straight foward but just need to get done.
On another subject WC has bought the shares in the existing company that is the RE.
They are not replacing the RE but bought the shares from OCV.
This I do not believe is a trigger to release OCV from its $50 million guarantee. Replacing the RE with another through a meeting and a majority voting is a trigger but legally the guarantee IMO is now payable by OCV so a future replacement of the RE if required should not impact on that right but it becomes a legal fight.
Hope this makes things clearer and try and keep your chins up
Good evening all PIF investors
I agree that you should move forward with holding a meeting of your own.
I have suggested to a few members privately that you should form a "not for profit incorporated body". This is a simple structure used by many clubs and sporting associations.
It provides a structure, constitution and governing rules that allow your elected committee to best represent your interests. It also provides some legal protection for your committee who as this things grow are taking on a serious responsibility on your behalf.
This body can hold a bank account and meet costs and allows the committee to act collectively on behalf of its members.
The only members pf this body can be PIF investors so it remains for your benefit only.
Membership would be say $5 plus it would allow additional contributions based on each members circustances to create a fighting fund.
It gives you a collective power base and an efficient means to represent what I think will become a very large group.
As suggested I am sure the press will love to offer a meeting room, telephone and microphone in the different states to allow you to get together.
You need
- President
- Secretary
- Treasurer
Additional members in multiples of two
As also discussed I think that each member of the PIF Action Group (incorporated) should give a limited power of attorney to your committee that allowed them to call meetings with RE, negotiate with litagation specialists and other specified powers.
(A Slater and Gordan would love to know they can come to a committee and it represents a block of investors in any action)
To establish this body and prepare the power of attorney we are not talking huge costs and we are not creating any form of structure that is unusual.
Javier has had a brief discussion with a solicitor I recommended and I have also given her a briefing. Apologies if you think we are jumping the gun but need to get the ball rolling. The initial tasks are straight foward but just need to get done.
On another subject WC has bought the shares in the existing company that is the RE.
They are not replacing the RE but bought the shares from OCV.
This I do not believe is a trigger to release OCV from its $50 million guarantee. Replacing the RE with another through a meeting and a majority voting is a trigger but legally the guarantee IMO is now payable by OCV so a future replacement of the RE if required should not impact on that right but it becomes a legal fight.
Hope this makes things clearer and try and keep your chins up
communique
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Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
Couldn't agree more Rocky, we need transparency and a more organised front.
We are happy to organise an subsidiary action group committee in Qld.
Currently waiting for outcome of Breaker discussions to JH.
Couldn't agree more Rocky, we need transparency and a more organised front.
We are happy to organise an subsidiary action group committee in Qld.
Currently waiting for outcome of Breaker discussions to JH.
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
"Transparent market place"..seems like a crock to me. I was checking out that NSX today..noone trades anything. Who the hell is going to buy our units..at the rightful value? The only way they will sell it at severely reduced prices. Now how is that any different to appointing an administrator and getting 30c per unit. No way, that NSX looks like a joke..only 15 brokers..that's a farce!! Jenny if this is the best way of looking after us, you will not be the long term solution to our problems madame!! Our money will rot there or be sold for a pittance..NO WAY! Let's get a meeting soon!! I am speaking to Tuart and a solicitor to get a committee formed legally and then try and get a meeting where press may be invited prior to the July WC meetings / forums.
I would like to know why we can't vote on a moratorium whereby we get some funds when the bank is repaid, get returns in the interim and then me paid in a timely and orderly manner as all the assets are realised, better to wait a little now and get a decent and fair amount of our money back down the track, than to never be able to get it. I think we are in for a fight to try and own the fund as investors, as if the NSX is JH's answer, we are truly better off without her and WC...WHAT FOR???
I thought she was going to amalgamate her funds under management with ours..she keeps touting how much she controls in WC..so what, how does that help us? An experinced funds manager..she has been in business as WC for 2 years..WOW! Sorry but can anyone else see that this is really starting to stink. Why hasn't this letter gone to investors first???
"Transparent market place"..seems like a crock to me. I was checking out that NSX today..noone trades anything. Who the hell is going to buy our units..at the rightful value? The only way they will sell it at severely reduced prices. Now how is that any different to appointing an administrator and getting 30c per unit. No way, that NSX looks like a joke..only 15 brokers..that's a farce!! Jenny if this is the best way of looking after us, you will not be the long term solution to our problems madame!! Our money will rot there or be sold for a pittance..NO WAY! Let's get a meeting soon!! I am speaking to Tuart and a solicitor to get a committee formed legally and then try and get a meeting where press may be invited prior to the July WC meetings / forums.
I would like to know why we can't vote on a moratorium whereby we get some funds when the bank is repaid, get returns in the interim and then me paid in a timely and orderly manner as all the assets are realised, better to wait a little now and get a decent and fair amount of our money back down the track, than to never be able to get it. I think we are in for a fight to try and own the fund as investors, as if the NSX is JH's answer, we are truly better off without her and WC...WHAT FOR???
I thought she was going to amalgamate her funds under management with ours..she keeps touting how much she controls in WC..so what, how does that help us? An experinced funds manager..she has been in business as WC for 2 years..WOW! Sorry but can anyone else see that this is really starting to stink. Why hasn't this letter gone to investors first???
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
Javier
When will we be in the position of being best informed about how to form our committee. I believe meetings in capital cities and other strong investor areas is the way to go as mentioned before.
Someone needs to put there hand up in each location and organise these meetings. I am in Melbourne and happy to be involved here but am very bust so don't want to let people down.
ANYONE KEEN, LETS GET THE BALL ROLLING
Javier
When will we be in the position of being best informed about how to form our committee. I believe meetings in capital cities and other strong investor areas is the way to go as mentioned before.
Someone needs to put there hand up in each location and organise these meetings. I am in Melbourne and happy to be involved here but am very bust so don't want to let people down.
ANYONE KEEN, LETS GET THE BALL ROLLING
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Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
I am in Melbourne Rocky. Only to happy to help in any way. Just say the word...and let me know what needs to be done and I will be onto it.
Tel. no. 97754874 or 0414895799.
I am in Melbourne Rocky. Only to happy to help in any way. Just say the word...and let me know what needs to be done and I will be onto it.
Tel. no. 97754874 or 0414895799.
