Wellington Capital PIF/Octaviar (MFS) PIF

[Mary Lynch]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Hi to whoever can answer my questions,

I don't pretend to know anything but:
If the PIF is supposedly worth $690K, is that on the current market?...and what is the "current" market anyway? I suppose the closest estimate will come from the Price Waterhouse assessment.

However, its of my understanding that a company has to go into receivership before they can choose to pay out existing creditors at a reduced redemption rate. We should be receiving dollar for dollar plus all withheld distributions surely.

Is it because they are now a "fund" that if they dry up their "funds" then they can close and start up again?

Why do you all think that they can sell up all their assets, pay us out at a reduced rate and gaily take off, making a motsa again..... a year later rolling in money at our expense?

How angry will you all be if this happens?

 

[seamisty]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Folks, I have just joined this group on behalf of my elderly & frail Dad (87) who is now not capable of fighting his own battles. From what I have seen it is highly likely that his PIF units are now worthless but I will subscribe (on his behalf) to any group-based action that has a reasonable chance of forcing disclosure from Wellington Capital etc. provided that the cost is modest. Sadly, I tried to warn him of MFS' troubles back in January but he didn't want to hear it

Welcome to the forum and the Action Group Mason. Your fathers' units are not worthless,possibly worth somewhere between 80-90 cents in my opinion( don't hold me to that) It was probably too late to warn your father in January, to my knowledge the Fund stopped accepting money approx 19th Jan this year and also ceased distributions and redemptions at the same time. We are all watching Welllington Capital (WC) closely and there does seem to be a trickle of information released to the media and in private phone conversations betwween Jenny Hutson and unit holders, some of who have been kind enough to share information they receive to the forum. JH has stated she intends to hold meetings/investor forums in several locations in some states at the beginning of July. I agree with Selciper though, I dislike finding information being released through media outlets before PIF holders have been informed. This is quite insulting and shows a lack of respect and disregard to the very people she will be relying on for the future strength of the Fund. I am hoping the AG will bring this to her attention at some point in time. We may have been duped by former board members and staff at MFS/OCV (ie.King,White,Peacock and Guy Hutchings signing off on important notices/communications who showed a blatant mishandling of truth regarding the correct state of the PIF in my opinion) but this has strengthened our resolve to be more vigilant and less complacent. Please reassure your father that the PIF fund will be salvaged to some extent and hopefully JH has a good strategic plan in place to make up lost ground to holders. Regards, Seamisty

 

[Javier]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

I need your help. Can someone please send me a copy of the PDS for MFS PIF via email (pdf), I need it asap as I have a solicitor as per my prevoius post and she needs it to get a few things rolling. jmcustoms@bigpond.com
Cheers!!

 

[marcom]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Very, very unhappy about the prospect of PIF being listed on the NSX, particularly after seeing this post on another forum:

" Very interesting.

Sell orders on the nsx are like corpses in an andean cemetary. They can lie undisturbed for thousands of years.

PIF shares will always trade at a big discount to net asset backing on the nsx.

There is a game you can play when reading the Finacial Review. It is called count the trades on the NSX. Some day's there may be half a dozen. Most days there are less than 5.

PIF might account for more than 50% of the trades on the NSX from the moment it lists."

I did not subscribe to a listed property fund and I do not want my investment to be transferred to a moribund, second rate board where it will languish for years with next to no hope of getting my money back.

This is a complete con job to keep investors locked into the fund.

So what can we do -

Wellington Capital will provide information about the status of the fund in a few weeks time during the presentations. If there is not enough detail we can ask for more. By then we should know how much we have lost.

The next step for the PIF Action Group is to try to get us a better outcome by calling on the responsible entity to call in a receiver who is legally obliged to to consider the best interests of investors. The receiver can then consider offers from others much better placed to fund the PIF debt and provide a better workout solution which would reduce the losses and hopefully get a full redemption of our investment.

The notice of motion for the EGM would be simple:

"The 100 investors listed on this Notice of Motion are of the opinion that the objectives of the PIF can not be achieved under the current fund management and therefore move that Wellington Capital as the Responsible Entity (RE) of the Premium Income Fund appoint a receiver to undertake the orderly wind up of the fund"


In my view the intention to list the PIF on the NSX exposes the utterly callous manner in which the RE is treating investors. Wellington Capital had a chance to prove that they could achieve a workout for investors, but this is a public relations disaster of biblical proportions.

 

[Javier]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

That is what we are trying to achieve via a committee among the PIF investors FOR the investors, why get a nasty expensive receiver? We can do it ourselves with the right guidance and support, we just have to get it right from the get go. WC know what we are trying to achieve, so hopefully we can steer the ship with or without WC..we just need the information of we the fund stands FIRST and in the interim form a committee based on the AG and all the other investors that come on board. With a clear head and patience, we will get through this. Stay positive!!!!

 

[Javier]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Got the PDS..thank you!!

 

[erniel]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Hi Javier,
Please could you help me with obtaining a copy of the pds as well.Is there a website that I can look it up.
Thanks Erniel

 

[seamisty]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

If anyone would like a copy by e-mail of the pds post your e-mail adress on here and I will foward it to you, Cheers, Seamisty

 

[k.smith]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premuim Income Fund PIF

UPDATE

This is my understanding under (correct me immediately if I am wrong in any facts):

* Wellington Capital have an option for shares in the Octaviar Pty Ltd Company side (the ASX listed part of Octaviar [not the PIF, WPIF, (investment arms), etc]. Another Wellington benefit is that they simply get the Management rights to the investment arms (PIF, WPIF,CEF, MYF, DGEF). They do not own the assets of the PIF, WPIF, etc

* "Perpetual" are simply the Registrar and Custodian of the assets - they apparently have little or no management rights over the Octaviar / MFS Investment Management side (PIF, WPIF, etc) - so they have no say over the day to day management matters. Further, Wellington Capital may or may not decide to keep Perpetual on as the Custodian and may appoint another Registrar / Custodian (but this has not been decided yet).

* Octaviar / MFS Investment Management (Ocv/MFSIM) have a current strategy to simply pay off The Royal Bank Of Scotland by selling off OCV/MFSIM assets - the idea obviously is to pay off this bank vulture first, then see what is left in assets and only then devise another strategy for we the investors. This of course begs the question - what will be left for us? Ocv/MFSIM has not been specific as to what assets are available, what they are worth and what specific assets are being sold to keep RBOS happy. Why legally OCV/MFSIM thinks the bank gets asset money first has to be investigated further.

* Apparently, if OCV/MFSIM is passed over to Wellington Capital, Guy Hutcings (PIF CEO) and Marylin Watts (PIF MNGR) will still be in similar positions after the transfer.

* So what happens after 360 days expire - is 100% of our assets going to be repaid? Just because we investors are waiting 1 year does not in any way guarantee 100% return on asset sale or even any interest backdated. Seriously, if the RBOS is getting first chop of the assets so far, it seems unlikely we will get back a high % figure - but that should be our goal!!

* We investors should contact ASIC about "The Corporations Act" and find out how we the investors can hold a general meeting with OCV/MFSIM management and press them for answers and request what we want! OCV/MFSIM is NOT planning any general meeting of investors - so it's really up to us!

*OCV/MFSIM cannot expain sensibly why it is in our best interests to be managed by the Wellington Group (Chris Scott mates no doubt).

AS A GROUP - WE MUST TRY TO ENSURE MAXIMUM RETURN TO WE THE INVESTORS!

 

[k.smith]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

We are looking for any information re: a EGM for the PIF investors, we haven't heard anything in weeks, we have a right to join forces to look after our investments, I am very sceptical about anything anybody says, how can things go from so good to so bad so fast? What are our legal rights? Surely we dont take all this without protest !!!!!!!!!!!

 

[selciper]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Another point about these forthcoming forums. Who is to chair these gatherings? Surely a WC rep. can't be in the chair in present circumstances. Remember that a chairperson can rule questions out of order. Perhaps these sessions are envisaged as a type of group therapy - "let them blow steam for a while" sort of stuff. Or, on the other hand, we could face a restrictive agenda obstructing the asking of vital questions. Beware of smoke-screens.

An independent chairperson is needed.

 

[marcom]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

k smith

Attached is the relevant section of the Corporations Act - I have the full division which is 20 pages in another attachment if you want it.

Javier is getting some legal advice which hopefully will clarify things regarding EGM action.

 

[seamisty]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Business Update
13 June 2008
Octaviar Investment Management Limited

As announced on 8 May 2008, a wholly owned subsidiary of Octaviar Limited (ASX:
OCV) has entered into a call option deed granting Wellington Capital Limited an option
to purchase its shareholding in Octaviar Investment Management Limited, the
responsible entity of a number of income funds including the Octaviar Premium Income
Fund.

That call option has now been exercised and the shares in the responsible entity are now
held by Wellington Capital Limited.
The current staff of Octaviar will continue to work with the funds management team at
Wellington Capital to ensure an orderly transition for the benefit of unit holders.

David Anderson
Company Secretary

 

[Duped]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Thanks Seamisty. So that's it, WC is now the RE. And according to your post #227, the $50M Support Facility is gone. Unless PIF already got it - doubtful.

 

[zixo]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Hi All,

I received some dates from a helpful source at Wellington capital in regards to when the managers of the fund will be suppossedly addressing all Investor concerns.
I noted them down quickly so please check your letters thorougly as to where your relevant information session will be, Just in case some dates will be changed or my information is incorrect

I have been assured that Letters will be posted to all investors sometime mid-week.

The dates are;
7th July (BRISBANE)
Greek club
29 edmonston street Brisbane

8th July (Melbourne)
Mebourne Conference Centre

9th July (Sydney)
Wesley Conference Centre
220 Pitt street

10th July (Gold Coast)
Gold Coast Convention centre

14 July (Newcastle)
Newcastle Panthers

15th July (Port Macquarie)
westport club Port Macquarie

I hope this information helps everyone to plan so they can attend - Hopefully we can get as many investors to the venues as possible.

Just because the new managers have organised dates. Its does not mean that this forum has done its job - Its exactly because of this forum that we have had some movement.

My thanks to all who have joined.

Its imperative, Now more than ever we need as many investors to get involved and join.

cheers

 

[Duped]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

NSX listing is fine by me. If they only sell at a discount I can sell, book the capital loss, buy them again and claim the interest from my home mortgage as a deduction and come out ahead. (There's more than one way to skin a tax cat)


The real question is...what distributions does WC expect it can achieve. Actually, 'expect' is a bad word to use, too easy to back pedal from. What distributions WILL we get?

(I don't listen to that financial engineer blah blah about business models. Businesses are either sustainable or not ... end of discussion.)

PIF was attractive because it offered around 2% and more above term deposits offered by Banks. Was this really EVER achievable? Or did MFSIM always borrow to meet distributions. Banks don't have that much fat. The extra 2% MFS offered had to come from somewhere. It would have to come from being better than banks - i.e. less running costs and/or making better investments than banks do. Well, with activities like sponsoring the Australia Golf Open, Tennis Open etc, I doubt Peacock/King etc did either of these very well. Look how many MFS jobs have now been slashed and offices closed.

ING Savings Maximiser is paying 6.9% (no fixed term and all about as risk free as you can get).

Commbank is offering 7.85% for 4 month term deposits (interest paid on maturity)

Bankwest is offering 8.0% / 8.5% for 3 / 6 month term deposits. (interest paid on maturity)

What are we going to get?

(Where did the $200M borrowed from the RBOS go? I suspect a substantial chunk of it went to us Investors - for paying distributions & redemptions. MFSIM wasn't performing and were borrowing to keeping up appearances.)

 

[breaker1]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

I have digested all the material of the last two days here on the forum together with email activity. I have collated it for a question / proposal and answer session with Jenny Hutson.

I rang her office today to speak to her, but she was busy, however I managed to secure a phone session appointment for Monday at which point I will discuss the concerns brought up by action group/forum members.

I might have too much material to discuss, so I have prioritised it with our major concerns in case we run out of time.

 

[atlas1950]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Hi Breaker1. I would like to join the group as I too am a sorry investor with pif.

I would also like to register my daughter as she is a investor as well.

 

[breaker1]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Congrats to all on the forum wanting to register for the PIF Action Group.

I assume most of you have emailed me with your details first - I can not accept an Action Group enrollment via the forum main thread page. I would much prefer an email with your details to breaker1@aapt.net.au

If you don't have access to a personal email account for yourself and still wish to contact me please click on my forum name "breaker1" to the left of the page and scroll to "send a private message to breaker one" then I can read your details in my forum mail box and I can correspond with you to your forum mail box. If you do it this way, don't forget to regularly go to the top right hand corner of the forum page and click on "members welcome..........."
and click on your name to see if you have received a reply from me. That said, I would still prefer a direct email rather than a forum private message.

HAGW

 

[erniel]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Hi Seamisty ,thanks for your help in obtaining the PDS.
my email is lomaxfam@bigpond.com.
rgds,
erniel