War threat in Ukraine

[Craton]

If the USA start using missiles to shoot down Russian aircraft, could Putin call this an act of aggression and a declaration of war, and use nuclear weapons against US bases in Europe?

Why would the USA start shooting (and just) at Russian aircraft?
Putin doesn't need that to happen to declare war, he already has. History will recall the Hitler called his 1939-40 invasions, "special military operations" and look what that led to.

So, what would happen if Putin started sending nukes into any base in Europe, will WW3 erupt?
It's all stops out to avoid that but if, if, Putin does then it could very well be the trigger that ignites the powder keg of tensions that seem to be so pervasive around the world at present.
Europe, Indo-China, Taiwan, South China Sea et al.

The question one needs to ask is, do the powers that be have an appetite for all the consequences of a nuclear war?

 

[Craton]

Putin won't hesitate to use nuclear weapons against Europe or any other country for that matter if they confront/strike Russia directly - I don't condone the use of nuclear weapons or any conflict/war for that matter. War is not the solution.
------------

The US detonated two nuclear weapons over the Japanese cities of Hiroshima and Nagasaki on 6th & 9th August 1945, respectively. The two bombings killed between 129,000 and 226,000 people, most of whom were civilians, and remain the only use of nuclear weapons in armed conflict.

Was the US ever taken to the human rights/international tribunal to answer for these atrocities ? curious to know as I've never really taken much interest in history & war's as such

Wikipedia:

On July 26, 1945, the United States, the United Kingdom, and the Republic of China issued a Potsdam Declaration that called for the unconditional surrender of Japan. It stated that if Japan did not surrender, it would face "prompt and utter destruction".[29][30] The Japanese government ignored this ultimatum, sending a message that they were not going to surrender. In response to the rejection, President Truman authorized the dropping of the atomic bombs.

Note those two very important words, "unconditional surrender".

 

[JohnDe]

Why would the USA start shooting (and just) at Russian aircraft?
Putin doesn't need that to happen to declare war, he already has. History will recall the Hitler called his 1939-40 invasions, "special military operations" and look what that led to.

So, what would happen if Putin started sending nukes into any base in Europe, will WW3 erupt?
It's all stops out to avoid that but if, if, Putin does then it could very well be the trigger that ignites the powder keg of tensions that seem to be so pervasive around the world at present.
Europe, Indo-China, Taiwan, South China Sea et al.

The question one needs to ask is, do the powers that be have an appetite for all the consequences of a nuclear war?

There are smarter ways than the one you are emphasising.

 

[Craton]

There are smarter ways than the one you are emphasising

What am I emphasizing?
You asked, I gave a reply. Unlike your throw away one liners. Of course there are smarter ways than tossing nukes around...

 

[JohnDe]

What am I emphasizing?
You asked, I gave a reply. Unlike your throw away one liners. Of course there are smarter ways than tossing nukes around...

I count three question marks in your reply, which really makes it a question ?‍

 

[3 hound]

What am I emphasizing?
You asked, I gave a reply. Unlike your throw away one liners. Of course there are smarter ways than tossing nukes around...

I honestly don't know enough about Russia/Ukraine/NATO history to argue strongly any way but I do feel from what little I know that if euro stopped encroaching on Russia thru Ukraine then there would be no war currently in Ukraine....and why the encroachment? Because oil, commodities and resources.

Appreciate your thoughts on this take.

 

[JohnDe]

I honestly don't know enough about Russia/Ukraine/NATO history to argue strongly any way but I do feel from what little I know that if euro stopped encroaching on Russia thru Ukraine then there would be no war currently in Ukraine....and why the encroachment? Because oil, commodities and resources.

Appreciate your thoughts on this take.

Like you said “I honestly don't know enough about Russia/Ukraine/NATO history to argue strongly any way”. Very true. There is a lot more information available that you will need to read up on.

 

[Stockbailx]

The yellow cake making things very difficult for Ukraine. My message for the insidious Putin, is he should eat it too. The longer Putin gets away with his threat and scares the Likes of Biden and NATO and the free world. The worse he's dominance will become. I feel very sorry for that fact and hope Ukraine can conquer the Russian invasion with the support of allies and supply's.

i still would prefer a piece keeping force on land and sky over the borders of Ukraine, that insure supply's are meet and sent. Creeping into the Russian advance. To eventually find and destroy Putin and his USSR regime.

Put a end to the theory of nuke's in war time. And maybe the likes of Biden could learn from this? Pretty frustrating situation, but what more could you do, but put a end to the super powers that carry the bomb like Russia and the US. Deafinetly say no to the so called cold war where the nukes are manipulated into supply. That's just my opinion...

 

[Craton]

I honestly don't know enough about Russia/Ukraine/NATO history to argue strongly any way but I do feel from what little I know that if euro stopped encroaching on Russia thru Ukraine then there would be no war currently in Ukraine....and why the encroachment? Because oil, commodities and resources.

Appreciate your thoughts on this take.

Broadly, in modern times since WWII there was the Cold War and the so-called Iron Curtain between the then, communist USSR (Union of Soviet Socialist Republics) and the West. Ukraine (like so many other countries) was part of the USSR. Putin is ex KGB and from that old USSR too.

With the advent of Perestroika and glasnost within the USSR in the 80's culminating in the collapse of the USSR/Iron Curtain in 1991, allowed former countries swallowed up into the USSR like Poland, Hungary, Lativa, Estonia, Ukraine and many more etc to break from Soviet Russian rule and regain sovereignty.
Glasnost or "openness" was seen as a sign that Russia moving towards a more accessible and West friendly regime. The threat of nuclear war seemed over and the world breathed a collective sigh of relief.

There is more to it than that of course with Crimea playing a part e.g. being transferred to Ukraine SSR in 1954.

Anyway, it's not about the West encroaching on Russia, it's quite the opposite thanks to Putin's ideology. Besides that, NATO is not pushing to have Ukraine join, in fact there are strict conditions that must be met before Ukraine, or any country, can become a member. Putin has done everything in his power, thanks to his Crimea invasion back in 2014, to successfully stop Ukraine from being accepted into NATO.

The threat is not from the West, it's from the East!

NATO:

NATO constitutes a system of collective security, whereby its independent member states agree to mutual defense in response to an attack by any external party. It was established during the Cold War in response to the threat posed by the Soviet Union. The alliance has remained in place since the dissolution of the Soviet Union, and has been involved in military operations in the Balkans, the Middle East, South Asia, and Africa.

 

[3 hound]

Broadly, in modern times since WWII there was the Cold War and the so-called Iron Curtain between the then, communist USSR (Union of Soviet Socialist Republics) and the West. Ukraine (like so many other countries) was part of the USSR. Putin is ex KGB and from that old USSR too.

With the advent of Perestroika and glasnost within the USSR in the 80's culminating in the collapse of the USSR/Iron Curtain in 1991, allowed former countries swallowed up into the USSR like Poland, Hungary, Lativa, Estonia, Ukraine and many more etc to break from Soviet Russian rule and regain sovereignty.
Glasnost or "openness" was seen as a sign that Russia moving towards a more accessible and West friendly regime. The threat of nuclear war seemed over and the world breathed a collective sigh of relief.

There is more to it than that of course with Crimea playing a part e.g. being transferred to Ukraine SSR in 1954.

Anyway, it's not about the West encroaching on Russia, it's quite the opposite thanks to Putin's ideology. Besides that, NATO is not pushing to have Ukraine join, in fact there are strict conditions that must be met before Ukraine, or any country, can become a member. Putin has done everything in his power, thanks to his Crimea invasion back in 2014, to successfully stop Ukraine from being accepted into NATO.

The threat is not from the West, it's from the East!

NATO:

That's all well and good but NATO was not to move one inch into Ukraine but clearly euro has encroached. The only logical reason is presumably the same old story: access to oil, commodities, resources.

The Ukrainians that have commented on some gaming forums I am on have a different take on it, seems Ukraine is a bunch of different regions that don't get along with pro-west elements being extremely violent toward other Ukrainians and in fact democratically elected Ukraine president were toppled by western friendly essentially dictators.

I don't know the full story but I doubt the full story is what you see on the western my media. Since Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan is sufficient to have not believe a word our media tells us and that is indisputable fact.

 

[JohnDe]

NATO's origin explained

CNN's Bianca Nobilo takes a look at the origin of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, or NATO, and its role in the Russia-Ukraine tensions.

 

[Craton]

@3 hound, I'm not going to quote and respond to your post per se, I'll say this though.

No doubt there are pro-Russian supporters just like there's anti-vaxxers here, they are all very vocal and some, really know how to stretch the truth.

Facts are that Putin has been closing up Russia for his own cronyism ever since he became president and the West isn't the one threatening the use of nukes.

Here, you are lawfully free to believe and do what you will, seems to me that is far better than what Putin's Russia is offering Ukraine.

 

[3 hound]

You

@3 hound, I'm not going to quote and respond to your post per se, I'll say this though.

No doubt there are pro-Russian supporters just like there's anti-vaxxers here, they are all very vocal and some, really know how to stretch the truth.

Facts are that Putin has been closing up Russia for his own cronyism ever since he became president and the West isn't the one threatening the use of nukes.

Here, you are lawfully free to believe and do what you will, seems to me that is far better than what Putin's Russia is offering Ukraine.

You are pretty sure of yourself that you have the correct take on things.

No offence but I am always dubious about people that are convinced they have the correct take on deeply complex geo-political issues.

How you wound ant-vax in there is impressive.

I just know there are a lot of Aussies that a month ago didn't know Ukraine from from their butthole but it hits the news and viola, they are instant experts.

 

[Dona Ferentes]

Just an observation to some; It's Aussie Shares Forum not Aussie Shrills Forum.

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

Just an observation to some; It's Aussie Shares Forum not Aussie Shrills Forum.

You

You are pretty sure of yourself that you have the correct take on things.

No offence but I am always dubious about people that are convinced they have the correct take on deeply complex geo-political issues.

How you wound ant-vax in there is impressive.

I just know there are a lot of Aussies that a month ago didn't know Ukraine from from their butthole but it hits the news and viola, they are instant experts.

Why, because I ask the question that intelligent people know to be an issue, while the trigger happy few spout delusions of sending in the calvary with no consequences?

Hi hound, interesting to see you in a new profile.

Thanks @Dona Ferentes . I have tried to keep my wellies clean and not covered in sh*t by not wading in to @3 hound and @JohnDe 's pointed lectures to us all on geopolitical matters. They sound like quite the virtuosos with a less than sesquipedalian scattergun approach to debate.

The existing members of ASF have learnt much from those who have migrated from the Commsec forum, which I have been told died because of ad hominem attacks by posters. ( attacking the person not the ball ).

As Ricky Gervais would say, nobody gives a rats what anyone on this thread thinks about Ukraine and Putin's fascist, hegemenous attack on that country. We are all just here because we enjoy the conversation and learning from others about a faraway country being pillaged by an aggressive empire. And we have opinions. Now it is within a person's rights to disagree with my views and I am sure some of the transgressors against couth on this thread will be busily checking my posts to fling some faeces in my direction, but hey, that's their right, but it is poor ASF decorum, of which even I have at times been guilty.

gg

 

[3 hound]

Thanks @Dona Ferentes . I have tried to keep my wellies clean and not covered in sh*t by not wading in to @3 hound and @JohnDe 's pointed lectures to us all on geopolitical matters. They sound like quite the virtuosos with a less than sesquipedalian scattergun approach to debate.

The existing members of ASF have learnt much from those who have migrated from the Commsec forum, which I have been told died because of ad hominem attacks by posters. ( attacking the person not the ball ).

As Ricky Gervais would say, nobody gives a rats what anyone on this thread thinks about Ukraine and Putin's fascist, hegemenous attack on that country. We are all just here because we enjoy the conversation and learning from others about a faraway country being pillaged by an aggressive empire. And we have opinions. Now it is within a person's rights to disagree with my views and I am sure some of the transgressors against couth on this thread will be busily checking my posts to fling some faeces in my direction, but hey, that's their right, but it is poor ASF decorum, of which even I have at times been guilty.

gg

Hypocrite, your whole post was a scatter gun ad hominem attack.

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

Hypocrite, your whole post was a scatter gun ad hominem attack.

As Corporal Jones in Dad's Army famously said.

" They don't like it up 'em."

gg

 

[JohnDe]

Thanks @Dona Ferentes . I have tried to keep my wellies clean and not covered in sh*t by not wading in to @3 hound and @JohnDe 's pointed lectures to us all on geopolitical matters. They sound like quite the virtuosos with a less than sesquipedalian scattergun approach to debate.

The existing members of ASF have learnt much from those who have migrated from the Commsec forum, which I have been told died because of ad hominem attacks by posters. ( attacking the person not the ball ).

As Ricky Gervais would say, nobody gives a rats what anyone on this thread thinks about Ukraine and Putin's fascist, hegemenous attack on that country. We are all just here because we enjoy the conversation and learning from others about a faraway country being pillaged by an aggressive empire. And we have opinions. Now it is within a person's rights to disagree with my views and I am sure some of the transgressors against couth on this thread will be busily checking my posts to fling some faeces in my direction, but hey, that's their right, but it is poor ASF decorum, of which even I have at times been guilty.

gg

? ?

 

[Stockbailx]

If only any of you made sense, stay with the question at hand "war threat on Ukraine".

There's only one answer for me, and i can't have it, the problems politics ( US ) nukes and a whole lot of demographic I can't image, as to where it all comes from I don't know, but you's all could take a good look in the mirror. With out putting to much on it, I think you's all think you's all know to much.

 

[Iron Triangle]

@3 hound , i recently joined here and your just being a smart arse bro . Why you deliberately starting shite with long serving members and trying to piss em all off ?? like most of us you know jack shittt about the Ukraine/Russian/ Afgan people /Iraq war and US foreign policy except what your feed on 7 news or talk back radio.

@GG , ease up on the big words ''virtuosos with a less than sesquipedalian...Corporal Jones '', no offence man but you making a dick of yourself trying to sound intelligent . Whats Corporal james got to do with this for christ sakes ??

My view on the situation. Ukraine were warned and warned and warned for past 10 years not to poke the bear but didnt listen, who's at fault ?? now it's turned into a bloody mess , tragic ! China seems to be the only ones making any sense , encouraging a seat at the table to resolve via diplomacy.