Victorian cops shoot 15 year old kid dead!

[Surly]

Good afternoon all.
I've read all the posts before me,

now can we go back and rewrite the posts,
with the view, it was your son the 3 police filled with 5 or 6 bullets.

The answers will be interesting.

And a question or two to the police officers out there,

Why were so many rounds fired to the target ?

Why did 3 police all have to discharge their hand guns at once?

And how could everybody ALL have discharged their hand guns, and some a number of times at once, at the same time ?

After the first chest shot or lower the target would have been no treat to anyone.

Kind regards,
UB

Barry in todays society the answer would be to blame the police. Although, if it were my son I think I would be asking myself how I failed so miserably as a father. Why my son had no respect for authority and was filled with what can only be described as suicidal rage. Why he failed to realise that life is not a video game where you simply reload from the last save and carry on.

A fairly logical repsonse to why all the officers fired at once is they all believed the threat had reached a point of no return at the same time. If they were trained to fire multiple times at the persons torso then they have all acted in accordance with their training.

What would be truly tragic is to be the parent of someone this teenager killed had the police not responded and be asking why he was allowed to terrorise the streets armed with knives and the police did nothing. Or to be the parent of a police officer stabbed and killed while trying to subdue this same teen in a less forceful manner.

cheers
Surly

 

[chops_a_must]

all this armchair quarterback "omg incompetent cops" what-if-ism is pathetic. the police aren't social workers, psychologists or therapists, they are enforcers of the law. someone with a knife standing 15m away from you has the potential to kill you or someone else in seconds, and that someone is even more dangerous and quite probably harder to take down when hyped up on drugs. you can imagine the outcry these same posters would raise if the cops DIDN'T put bullets into the kid and he ran off and sliced up an innocent bystander instead.

"Yes, excuse me, please stay still while I put a fork in you and try and take a piece of you with my crappy Target steak knives."

 

[MrBurns]

Barry in todays society the answer would be to blame the police. Although, if it were my son I think I would be asking myself how I failed so miserably as a father. Why my son had no respect for authority and was filled with what can only be described as suicidal rage. Why he failed to realise that life is not a video game where you simply reload from the last save and carry on.

A fairly logical repsonse to why all the officers fired at once is they all believed the threat had reached a point of no return at the same time. If they were trained to fire multiple times at the persons torso then they have all acted in accordance with their training.

What would be truly tragic is to be the parent of someone this teenager killed had the police not responded and be asking why he was allowed to terrorise the streets armed with knives and the police did nothing. Or to be the parent of a police officer stabbed and killed while trying to subdue this same teen in a less forceful manner.

cheers
Surly

You make alot of assumptons there, are they based on any sort of fact or knowledge of the kid or his family or police training or do you just write cheap fiction.

 

[Prospector]

Good afternoon all.
I've read all the posts before me,

now can we go back and rewrite the posts,
with the view, it was your son the 3 police filled with 5 or 6 bullets

Kind regards,
UB

Yes. That thought came to me too. 15 year olds can do some crazy crazy things. Everyone in this tragedy lost. (for those who didn't read all this thread I used to be a police officer) Why so many shots? Because 3cops reacted instantaneously to the same threat. Why were the legs hit? Because their aim was not good. It actually helps the police to justify what happened if three trained people reacted in the same way

 

[Surly]

You make alot of assumptons there, are they based on any sort of fact or knowledge of the kid or his family or police training or do you just write cheap fiction.

MrBurns not sure that I agree with "a lot of assumptions". I "assumed" the police all fired together as they all read the situation in the same manner. Yes I have had police training in WA explained to me by a former WA police officer. The assumption was Vic was the same. Refer earlier post if you like.

The rest of the post was about how I would feel were it my child.

Do I need to know any more about the teenager or his family other than he was armed in public and failed to comply with police instructions to disarm himself?

cheers
Surly

 

[2020hindsight]

This kid's problems started when he listened to the sort of racist stuff that occasionally gets onto forums like this.

And then ended up in a "Neo Nazi" movement - euphemistically called "White Pride" and "Anti-immigration" out of consideration for his parents' emotional plight I guess.

PS But too young to be a serious threat to 4 police surely (and end up looking like a colander).

 

[MrBurns]

MrBurns not sure that I agree with "a lot of assumptions". I "assumed" the police all fired together as they all read the situation in the same manner. Yes I have had police training in WA explained to me by a former WA police officer. The assumption was Vic was the same. Refer earlier post if you like.

The rest of the post was about how I would feel were it my child.

Do I need to know any more about the teenager or his family other than he was armed in public and failed to comply with police instructions to disarm himself?

cheers
Surly

"Although, if it were my son I think I would be asking myself how I failed so miserably as a father.

His father is dead, it was the anniversary of his death.

Why my son had no respect for authority and was filled with what can only be described as suicidal rage.

How do you know if he had no respect for authority, these were exceptional personal circumstances.

Why he failed to realise that life is not a video game where you simply reload from the last save and carry on.

Unesesary flowery bull****

A fairly logical repsonse to why all the officers fired at once is they all believed the threat had reached a point of no return at the same time. If they were trained to fire multiple times at the persons torso then they have all acted in accordance with their training.

You're making this up you have no idea of Victorian police training, you write fiction.

What would be truly tragic is to be the parent of someone this teenager killed had the police not responded

AsI understand it he was no where near anyone else when this happened.

 

[Surly]

.

Do I need to know any more about the teenager or his family other than he was armed in public and failed to comply with police instructions to disarm himself?

Mrburns, interestingly the only point you failed to quote on and the only one that really matters.

cheers
Surly

 

[chops_a_must]

MrBurns not sure that I agree with "a lot of assumptions". I "assumed" the police all fired together as they all read the situation in the same manner. Yes I have had police training in WA explained to me by a former WA police officer. The assumption was Vic was the same. Refer earlier post if you like.

People are like horses, they react to to each other as much as they react to the situation that caused the initial reaction. That's how we survive.

It may not be that they reacted to the threat as much as they reacted to the other officer's perceived threat. Would not be surprised if the officer shot, with the other's shooting significantly later.

 

[MrBurns]

Mrburns, interestingly the only point you failed to quote on and the only one that really matters.

cheers
Surly

You over simplify the whole thing, armed with knives not an AK47, 15 years old, didnt comply with the order to drop the knives but wasnt endangering anyone at the time as far as I know, so they killed him surley they KILLED him I'm sure if he were your relative you'd be a little disappointed at those reasons for ending his life.

 

[nick2fish]

One double knife wielding KID (big) vrs Four BURLY police officers armed with the latest telescopic baton. My moneys on the police..... Unless... Oh thats right they are not burly anymore just 5ft 3" wanna be accountants or vets who couldn't be bothered to go to uni for five years.

My thoughts are with the kids family right now and another senseless waste of life

 

[MrBurns]

One double knife wielding KID (big) vrs Four BURLY police officers armed with the latest telescopic baton. My moneys on the police..... Unless... Oh thats right they are not burly anymore just 5ft 3" wanna be accountants or vets who couldn't be bothered to go to uni for five years.

My thoughts are with the kids family right now and another senseless waste of life

Christine Nixon's fault she dumbed the whole force down so they're more social workers than anything else.

In the old days if you called a cop a cop or a pig you'd get a fat lip and spend the night in the clink now days they just smile.

 

[numbercruncher]

This new article flys in the face of the firearms "experts" in this thread that reckon Police with pistols cant shoot legs !!

I even recall someone suggesting I stick to Playstations etc for even suggesting it ?

Apologies along with von harvey norman vouchers can be PMed to me , thanks.

One of the three police officers who shot and killed a teenage boy reportedly tried to shoot his legs as he advanced on them, allegedly wielding two stolen knives.

Tyler lured police to the scene with two hoax calls reporting an emergency near the scene where he died, The Age said.

When Tyler continued to advance, three of the four police involved in the shooting fired at his body until he fell.

Tyler died at the scene.

The report said Tyler was hit twice in the legs and twice in the chest and several other shots missed him.

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=697364


Boy oh boy ! 2 shots in the leg and he didnt go down - Im now eager to see the toxiology report thats pretty bizarre. OR did police shoot legs and chest simultainously, was there a lack of communication ?

 

[MrBurns]

Boy oh boy ! 2 shots in the leg and he didnt go down - Im now eager to see the toxiology report thats pretty bizarre. OR did police shoot legs and chest simultainously, was there a lack of communication ?

Sounds to me like they were just shooting to hit him no matter where, no one advances with bullets in their legs.
Maybe if they were trained to shoot properly and had modern weapons legs would have been easier to hit.
You know they didnt have to wait for him to advance they could have given him one or 2 in the legs if they felt threatened.
At least he would be alive.

Police equipment is a disgrace, as it seems is their training,thanks John Brumby and Christine Nixon what a pair of incompetents.

 

[2020hindsight]

I don't have a problem with Nixon.
She had entrenched corruption to deal with - at one point, right up to the man who would be the next king

PS the "leaking" of the "safe-house" (sic) location of witnesses for imminent court cases against crime syndicates (whose members included police) so that they could be murdered.

 

[Ageo]

Maybe if they were trained to shoot properly and had modern weapons legs would have been easier to hit.
You know they didnt have to wait for him to advance they could have given him one or 2 in the legs if they felt threatened.
At least he would be alive.

Burns normally i respect your opinions but answer me this what "modern weapon" (im assuming you mean firearm?) are you referring to? people still dont get it and think shooting a firearm is like doom where you point it with a mouse and click to shoot? mate you have to start being realistic.

Ask any professional pistol shooter about your theory and see what they say.

 

[MrBurns]

Burns normally i respect your opinions but answer me this what "modern weapon" (im assuming you mean firearm?) are you referring to? people still dont get it and think shooting a firearm is like doom where you point it with a mouse and click to shoot? mate you have to start being realistic.

Ask any professional pistol shooter about your theory and see what they say.

Looks like it may be happening - the crap they had before (still have) is just not good enough but after a cop was injured when his gun jammed Christine Nixon had a rethink, how thoughtful of her after the Police Association had been telling her for years. Glad to see her go.

June 08'

Victoria's police will patrol the streets with semi-automatic guns within six months after a backflip by chief commissioner Christine Nixon.

Ms Nixon previously opposed moves to replace the .38 revolvers currently used but changed her mind following a recent police shooting, union pressure and an external panel recommending semi-automatics be introduced.

The Police Association ramped up its campaign for powerful semi-automatics following the shooting of Senior Constable David McHenry, 27, by criminal Samir Ograzden in Melbourne last month.

The decision brings Victoria in line with the rest of the country, but Ms Nixon denied plans to buy 6,500 semi-automatic guns was a "backdown" prompted by Snr Const McHenry's injury.

An independent advisory committee said police should be armed with semi-automatic weapons while $10 million in funding has already been allocated for a firearms upgrade in the State budget.

"For me, I've been able to be persuaded and if the evidence is strong then I'm happy to change my mind, and that's what I've done," Ms Nixon told reporters on Friday.

"For quite some time I've had concerns about the introduction of a new firearm, but after .... dealing with a number of the concerns I had I'm pleased we are able to make this move."

Those concerns included guns accidentally discharging or jamming, but Police Minister Bob Cameron told reporters the technology had improved substantially in the past year.

Semi-automatic Glock pistols have been used in NSW since 1996, when Ms Nixon worked there, and police in all other states and territories use semi-automatics.

Their introduction in NSW was prompted by a police shooting the previous year when officers Robert Spears and Peter Addison were killed by drunken electrician John McGowan, 35, who used a semi-automatic gun.

Police Association secretary Paul Mullett said the union was still considering suing Victoria Police over Snr Const McHenry's shooting for negligence in not using the funding to buy semi-automatic pistols.

Snr Sgt Mullett said police needed to be able to defend themselves against criminals who had access to "all sorts of superior weaponry be they semi-automatic shotguns and machine guns".

"We're programmed to have meetings with Snr Const McHenry and other members involved in that shooting to see if there's a common law right to sue the employer for what we believe was negligence in that they didn't have access to the superior firearm being the semi-automatic pistol," he told reporters.

"It's a victory for the Police Association and our broader members who told us three to four years ago that they required the better weapon."

It's hoped the weapons will be introduced within the next five to six months, once a supplier has been found and officers have been trained.

Ms Nixon ruled out taser or stun guns, which Snr Sgt Mullett said was disappointing.

"There is a touch of irony in the chief commissioner's email to the broader membership where in announcing semi-auto pistols she says she would prefer that non-lethal options be used," he said.

"Guess what: the taser is a non-lethal piece of equipment."

 

[moXJO]

:topic

Christine Nixon use to visit my neighbor (also a cop) and I use to chat to her a bit. She seemed like a very nice person, and at the time I didn't really have any idea of who she was. Then I saw her on TV when she first became Vic chief What a bugger of a job to go for.

 

[MrBurns]

:topic

Christine Nixon use to visit my neighbor (also a cop) and I use to chat to her a bit. She seemed like a very nice person, and at the time I didn't really have any idea of who she was. Then I saw her on TV when she first became Vic chief What a bugger of a job to go for.

That position should be held by a hardliner who enforces the law with an iron fist. It's a jungle out there.

 

[awg]

I feel very sorry for the family of the guy who got shot.

However, for all those down on the cops.

ask yourself, what would you do if YOU were about to be attacked by a knife wielding crazy person,( or your collegue was) when you were armed, permitted and trained to fire.