Victorian cops shoot 15 year old kid dead!

[MrBurns]

I feel very sorry for the family of the guy who got shot.

However, for all those down on the cops.

ask yourself, what would you do if YOU were about to be attacked by a knife wielding crazy person,( or your collegue was) when you were armed, permitted and trained to fire.

Latest account say he did advance on them, looks like he wanted them to fire on him, seems like they had no choice.

In retrospect, where were the freeking taser guns ? there should have been another way out of this. Not blaming the police, they are a victim of their training and equipment.

 

[Uncle Barry]

Good morning,
I trust this report is not true,

"2 shots in the leg and he didnt go down"

he was shot with .38 or 9mm projectiles, and didn't fall down......
AND then had to be shot multi times in the chest

This must be some kind of sick joke surely other wise people will think the police just gunned him down like the 'crims' do.

One or two, 38 or 9mm from 15 meters or less....... no one will be standing.

Couldn't hit a set of legs at 15 meters, therefore they could not hit a selected target at this distance, AND HAD TO SHOOT FOR THE BODY MASS, if that is the case, then these officers should NOT be allowed to carry a firearm in public as they are a danger to themselves AND the public.

This then must reflect on the Government, the police and their lack of screening potential officers and the lack of correct training !

Kind regards,
UB

 

[awg]

Good morning,
I trust this report is not true,

"2 shots in the leg and he didnt go down"

he was shot with .38 or 9mm projectiles, and didn't fall down......
AND then had to be shot multi times in the chest

This must be some kind of sick joke surely other wise people will think the police just gunned him down like the 'crims' do.

One or two, 38 or 9mm from 15 meters or less....... no one will be standing.

Couldn't hit a set of legs at 15 meters, therefore they could not hit a selected target at this distance, AND HAD TO SHOOT FOR THE BODY MASS, if that is the case, then these officers should NOT be allowed to carry a firearm in public as they are a danger to themselves AND the public.

This then must reflect on the Government, the police and their lack of screening potential officers and the lack of correct training !

Kind regards,
UB

come on now, Bruce Willis can be fired at hundreds of times and not get hit, even with machine guns

 

[Ageo]

Looks like it may be happening - the crap they had before (still have) is just not good enough but after a cop was injured when his gun jammed Christine Nixon had a rethink, how thoughtful of her after the Police Association had been telling her for years. Glad to see her go.

Well a revolver is always more reliable then a semi simply because theres no room for jamming (and if the revolver miss fires you can click it over to the next chamber). But never have i heard a semi being more accurate then a revolver?

The only difference is the amount of shots you can get off and magazine capacity.

 

[MrBurns]

Well a revolver is always more reliable then a semi simply because theres no room for jamming (and if the revolver miss fires you can click it over to the next chamber). But never have i heard a semi being more accurate then a revolver?

The only difference is the amount of shots you can get off and magazine capacity.

These are old revolvers very old out of date redundant shouldn't be in use get it ?

 

[Uncle Barry]

out of date


please explain.
I've never seen or heard of an 'out of date' firearm.

What is the brand and model of these hand guns that the victorian police use that are 'out of date " ?

UB

sorry mate, but an 'out of date' handgun, your making me break up laughing.

 

[MrBurns]

out of date


please explain.
I've never seen or heard of an 'out of date' firearm.

What is the brand and model of these hand guns that the victorian police use that are 'out of date " ?

UB

sorry mate, but an 'out of date' handgun, your making me break up laughing.

You're easily amused UB must be old age, dont you understand English ? out of date not a recent or current model and I would think the police need the latest, read the news item I posted earlier.

 

[Prospector]

This new article flys in the face of the firearms "experts" in this thread that reckon Police with pistols cant shoot legs ! ?

They disobeyed their basic training. Probably will cause them to be disciplined

 

[Ageo]

You're easily amused UB must be old age, dont you understand English ? out of date not a recent or current model and I would think the police need the latest, read the news item I posted earlier.

hehe i understand what UB is chuckling about and even thow Nixon is talking about upgrading the arsenal an old revolver will sometimes shooter better than the new ones on the market.

But for whatever the reason even a state of the art competition pistol with all the bells and whistles still makes it useless to fire at a moving leg.

1st rule of shooting in a civilized place is body of mass, that way it prevents further injuries. Case closed

 

[Happy]

We have the benefit of almost infinite time and armchair comfort to analyse to the n-th degree what was done wrong.

I can see simple explanation for so many bullets; this was caused by 3 police personnel being in a position to save fourth one allegedly cornered.

They probably did not have time or simply did not make call ‘I got it’
Why?

Maybe they did not work as one unit, hence some communication problems.

Another option, despite of being trained to tackle various situations they were not masters in this type of combat.

For some reason I do not blame Police for what happened.

Just few days later one Police officer was grazed by knife wielding woman.
Cannot find ABC report right now, but if somebody insists, I will get it.

 

[Uncle Barry]

Good afternoon Happy.
If your report is correct,
"Just few days later one Police officer was grazed by knife wielding woman."

And the police person was armed with a handgun, then why didn't this police person shoot the women dead, with a number of rounds into her legs and chest ?


"I can see simple explanation for so many bullets; this was caused by 3 police personnel being in a position to save fourth one allegedly cornered"

One round discharged into the victim's legs would have brought this person down to the ground.

One round to the chest would have bought this person down to the ground.

Why 4 or 5 rounds hitting the victims, from 3 shooters, this must surely indicate that one police person discharged his or her fire arm a number of times directed to the victim.

Why keep shooting ?

Mr Burns,
"You're easily amused UB must be old age, dont you understand English "

Sorry Mr B, stupid answers, your personal attack, will not help a very serious situation, I don't think shooting anybody a number of times is the least bit funny or to be smart about !

I like others, wonder why the police appeared to 'put to death' this young person. Hence the questions, based on my shooting knowledge of over 50 years of shooting and fire arms.

Kind regards,
UB

 

[Happy]

Good afternoon Happy.
If your report is correct,
UB

Got the uneasy feeling that somewhat doubt was oozing out of this statement, so found it:

From ABC, Sun Dec 14, 2008 9:34pm AEDT

OFFICER CUT AS POLICE DEAL WITH ANOTHER KNIFE THREAT

A police officer has been injured during the arrest of a women wielding knives on the New South Wales mid north coast last night.
The woman allegedly rang police from outside the Forster police station at 11.30pm (AEST) and told them she was there and armed with knives.
The 55-year-old allegedly threatened self harm with two 30cm knives before turning on police.
Officers say they tried to subdue her with capsicum spray without success and then hit her with a baton but she struck out, cutting an officer's head.
She has been arrested and charged with four counts of assaulting police, assault occasioning actual bodily harm and being armed with intent.
The injured officer was treated at the scene and did not require hospitalisation.
The incident comes only days after 15-year-old Tyler Cassidy was shot down by Victorian police in a Northcote skate park after allegedly threatening officers with knives.
Officers also allegedly used capsicum spray to little affect in that case.
Earlier today, Victorian Police Minister Bob Cameron denied Victorian Police were trigger-happy

And the police person was armed with a handgun, then why didn't this police person shoot the women dead, with a number of rounds into her legs and chest ?
UB

I can almost see, that all Police personnel was briefed and most probably urged not to pull out guns, of course I can be incorrect.

One round discharged into the victim's legs would have brought this person down to the ground.
UB

You missed the bit that 3 Police personnel independently acted, so 1 to leg and 1 to body = 6 bullets

I would rather see more guns used by Police when confronted with drawn weapon, but I have no say in this matter.

 

[AAA]

Good morning,
I trust this report is not true,

"2 shots in the leg and he didnt go down"

he was shot with .38 or 9mm projectiles, and didn't fall down......
AND then had to be shot multi times in the chest

This must be some kind of sick joke surely other wise people will think the police just gunned him down like the 'crims' do.

One or two, 38 or 9mm from 15 meters or less....... no one will be standing.

Couldn't hit a set of legs at 15 meters, therefore they could not hit a selected target at this distance, AND HAD TO SHOOT FOR THE BODY MASS, if that is the case, then these officers should NOT be allowed to carry a firearm in public as they are a danger to themselves AND the public.

This then must reflect on the Government, the police and their lack of screening potential officers and the lack of correct training !

Kind regards,
UB

I know of at least 2 instances police have hit knife wielding people ( one was a female) with multiple shots and they actually turned and ran away. There is no guarantee that a person will drop with one or two rounds in them ( even in the chest).

I would say as far as police go I am an average to above average shot with a handgun and I would not feel confident of hitting someone in the legs at 10 to 15 metres as they charged at me. I think the standard of marksmanship you expect is just not realistic. With a lot more training more police would approach or meet this standard, however we unfortunately have a job that doesn't allow time for this amount of training. Even with a lot more training it is hard to train someone to shoot accurately whilst under pressure.

 

[MrBurns]

Mr Burns,
"You're easily amused UB must be old age, dont you understand English "

Sorry Mr B, stupid answers, your personal attack, will not help a very serious situation, I don't think shooting anybody a number of times is the least bit funny or to be smart about !

Kind regards,
UB

I found your chuckling arrogant and offensive, sorry if my reponse did likewise to you.

 

[kilgore]

Okay,

There seems to be some doubt as to the potency of the 9mm round, particularly the 9mm hollowpoints as used by a huge section of global police forces.

I won't go to the trouble of quoting people in the forum, because I'm too lazy to bother.

In short, all you need to do is look at some high speed film of hollowpoint bullets going through ballistics gel to realise how effective they really are.

If they weren't I'm pretty sure police would be issued with .357mag or similar.

That being said, single knife disarmament is fairly risky at the best of times, let alone disarming someone with two knives without getting yourself killed in the process.

I have personally been schooled by some pretty savvy streetfighters about this, and I reckon even the pros would have doubts .

I think that police are in need of more ranged weapon options like metsubushi (powders that are thrown into the face and eyes that temporarily disable) the three-foot staff, which is just a longer version of a billy club, in addition to toughened clothing like gauntlets that will protect them from needle-stick and blade assaults.

Even so, I don't think they will ever teach australian police to physically disarm knife weilders, and I highly doubt they ever will, since the cost of one tiny mistake in a knife struggle is your life.

In all honesty, a cop's best chances are to subdue with ranged options like mace or a taser, and the final resort being firearms.

I do feel sorry and sad for all involved, but especially for the young bloke who was killed.

 

[dalek]

Okay,

There seems to be some doubt as to the potency of the 9mm round, particularly the 9mm hollowpoints as used by a huge section of global police forces.

I won't go to the trouble of quoting people in the forum, because I'm too lazy to bother.

In short, all you need to do is look at some high speed film of hollowpoint bullets going through ballistics gel to realise how effective they really are.

If they weren't I'm pretty sure police would be issued with .357mag or similar.

Our police DO NOT use hollow points and are issued with solid projectile ammunition.
A mentally deranged person or someone under the influence of drugs can take a couple of 9mm rounds in the chest and keep coming, unless the projectile hits something important, spine, heart, and it only takes a couple of seconds for them to cover 10 metres when charging.
The firepower from standard issue .38 S&W revolvers is pretty modest when comparing firearms.
It's just a bit too easy when sitting in comfy suburbs to postulate on life and death situations that occur in seconds.
While nobody would disagree this has been a sorry event, there doesn't have to be a villain found to make sense of it. Sometimes things just happen.