Another Dog Attack - Sad Story All Round

[pixel]

Suppose the only one worse than this case was information on how girl was eaten alive by brown bear and all she could do is call her stepmother on a phone.

I beg to differ:
The Russian girl and her stepfather went into the bear's habitat, knowing well - or should have been well aware - of the danger. In that case, while not wishing a death like hers on any human being, I see it as a natural event: Bears eat prey to survive. If people venture into their space, they offer themselves as potential prey.

Pitbulls, in contrast, don't fulfill any natural purpose; they have been bred solely to compensate for some macho moron's lack of self-esteem. And before anyone defends their use as a watchdog: There are breeds serving as watchdogs that are more intelligent and can distinguish between a harmless child and an intruder that's up to no good. Plus: guard dogs must be trained and handled responsibly; they know how to stop someone that strays into their property, but they do not leave their "territory" to maul and kill a child.

 

[Julia]

I beg to differ:
The Russian girl and her stepfather went into the bear's habitat, knowing well - or should have been well aware - of the danger. In that case, while not wishing a death like hers on any human being, I see it as a natural event: Bears eat prey to survive. If people venture into their space, they offer themselves as potential prey.

Pitbulls, in contrast, don't fulfill any natural purpose; they have been bred solely to compensate for some macho moron's lack of self-esteem. And before anyone defends their use as a watchdog: There are breeds serving as watchdogs that are more intelligent and can distinguish between a harmless child and an intruder that's up to no good. Plus: guard dogs must be trained and handled responsibly; they know how to stop someone that strays into their property, but they do not leave their "territory" to maul and kill a child.

I totally agree. I don't think pitbulls are even particularly good watchdogs.
Huge difference between a highly intelligent, well trained dog and a ball of muscle whose inbred instinct is that of destruction.

I've known some very soft natured Staffordshire terriers, but even these, I'd never completely trust.

 

[Macquack]

Another dog attack and this time a 4 year old girl dead. No suprise to anyone that the dog is a pit bull terrior.

The police come out with this statement:-

It's yet to be fully investigated to see whether or not there's been any offence committed," Superintendent Graham Kent said. "Our focus at this stage is to find out what happened and in the process of doing that we will find out whether or not there's been any offence."

Was there an offence? Was the dog provoked and acted in self defence.
Wake up, the offence is owning these death traps.

Ban pit bull terriors NOW.

 

[pixel]

Another dog attack and this time a 4 year old girl dead. No suprise to anyone that the dog is a pit bull terrior.
[...]
Was there an offence? Was the dog provoked and acted in self defence.
Wake up, the offence is owning these death traps.

Ban pit bull terriors NOW.

Not only that: In tonight's 7PM Project, it was argued that a ban would only drive the breeders and holders "underground". They also pointed out that in Victoria, the maximum fine a pitbull owner faces if his weapon maims or kills someone is $4,500.

In other States, fines are somewhat harsher, but still totally inadequate. Let's see: Why not hold the owner responsible and get retribution in kind. For every puncture wound their beast inflicts, have one of the owner's tattoos removed. ... with a flensing knife! ... sans anesthetics!

 

[dutchie]

Not only that: In tonight's 7PM Project, it was argued that a ban would only drive the breeders and holders "underground". They also pointed out that in Victoria, the maximum fine a pitbull owner faces if his weapon maims or kills someone is $4,500.

In other States, fines are somewhat harsher, but still totally inadequate. Let's see: Why not hold the owner responsible and get retribution in kind. For every puncture wound their beast inflicts, have one of the owner's tattoos removed. ... with a flensing knife! ... sans anesthetics!

Agree pixel.

A fine of $4500 for life of child. How ridiculous is that!
Get rid of all aggressive breeds and make owners responsible for their dogs action.
In this case manslaughter.

 

[Tink]

The dog that attacked Ayen was destroyed by council yesterday. Police believed the dog was a pit bull cross. The council said the dog was not registered, as all dogs are required to be, and had not had any complaints made about it. Mixed breeds are not restricted but it is a grey area of law, a state government spokesman said.

The owner, a 30-year-old St Albans man, was questioned by police, who said he was co-operative. Mr Foa said the council would investigate laying charges subject to the police investigation. Fines for the owner of dogs who attacked people doubled under the Brumby government last year to $4778. The maximum penalties for the owner of a declared dangerous dog who attacked someone remained at a $14,334 fine and six months' prison.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/d...ys-baillieu-20110818-1j08c.html#ixzz1VQ5uwD4W

Very sad to read - I feel for what this family must have gone through

 

[Happy]

I am not too happy to say that, as it might look controversial, but to get around Pit Bull breeding ban dogs are crossed.

In Australia it is accepted that certain human race is accepted as that race with as little as 1/8 or is it 1/16-th of the concerned race.

Smart Pit Bull breeders could be stopped in their tracks just by using the same illogical logic.

 

[Calliope]

In other States, fines are somewhat harsher, but still totally inadequate. Let's see: Why not hold the owner responsible and get retribution in kind. For every puncture wound their beast inflicts, have one of the owner's tattoos removed. ... with a flensing knife! ... sans anesthetics!

I think a charge of manslaughter against the dog's owner would be appropriate. I don't think there should be any distinction between whether the person or his agent carries out the killing.

 

[Logique]

As far as I'm concerned, these aggressive breeds and many of the crossbreds are loaded guns. Governments need to show some bottle.

I had a neighbour once that kept mastiffs in the yard, never seen with a collar or lead, never taken out, never socialized. Aggressive, borderline psychotic dogs.

Tremendous sense of relief when they finally moved out.

 

[Julia]

As far as I'm concerned, these aggressive breeds and many of the crossbreds are loaded guns. Governments need to show some bottle.

I had a neighbour once that kept mastiffs in the yard, never seen with a collar or lead, never taken out, never socialized. Aggressive, borderline psychotic dogs.

Tremendous sense of relief when they finally moved out.

I quite understand your unhappiness at such dogs next door.
However, can I just ask that we remember that the aggression in these dogs would probably only be partially due to their genes, and significantly more to the inappropriate conditions in which they were kept. I feel for these dogs.

I would like to shoot the owners.

 

[pixel]

I quite understand your unhappiness at such dogs next door.
However, can I just ask that we remember that the aggression in these dogs would probably only be partially due to their genes, and significantly more to the inappropriate conditions in which they were kept. I feel for these dogs.

I would like to shoot the owners.

LOL Julia,

somehow I thought you might harbour such thoughts. I do too.

And when I mentioned dogs that were more intelligent, so they could distinguish between protecting their territory and outside environs, I definitely had your avatar in mind along with some other breeds. However, the crucial element is education of the owner and training of the dog by the owner. Owners should demonstrate much less aggressiveness and a little more intelligence than their dog, so they can be Top Dog in their relationship with their canines. Sadly, this is often not the case.

 

[Julia]

Thanks, pixel. We are clearly of the same mind about the responsibilities of canine ownership.
A good dog, well trained, is a joy. A good dog, owned by the wrong person and treated wrongly, is a menace.

 

[joea]

Thanks, pixel. We are clearly of the same mind about the responsibilities of canine ownership.
A good dog, well trained, is a joy. A good dog, owned by the wrong person and treated wrongly, is a menace.

Yes I agree. I have had dogs all my life.
People do not understand the real responsibilities of owning a dog and the time it requires.
When walking the dogs I have owned, I have solved most of my problems in my life.
I am lucky to be walking the dogs around cane paddocks, along creeks with no lead.
My dogs are diciplined when they are very young and will perform on verbyl command or hand signal.
I have seen the mistreatment, misappreciation of dogs, or bad owners all my life. Its a shame.
joea

 

[Logique]

It's about the owners for sure, and most owners are pretty good, however I just don't trust the aggressive dog breeds and never will. Where it can get really ropey is out in rural or semi-rural subdivisions, you've got to watch yourself out there. In more built up areas, people know that the council ranger or police are never far away.

The fashion where I live is more about the smaller sized or 'toy' dogs, which are fine, and everybody gets along on the paths and beaches. An occasional sheep dog that wants to round you up, but no malice in them.

 

[Julia]

Hmm, some of the toy dogs are real pests. The owners think it's really cute for their small fluffy thing to rush up behind a big dog and repeatedly bark and snap at its tail.

It takes some control on the part of both the owner and the big dog itself for the big dog not to turn round and sort the small thing out.

And guess which dog would get the blame if this actually happened and diddums was actually nipped? Not the dog that started it, that's for sure.

 

[Tink]

I have to agree with you there Logique, I am abit the same with the aggressive dogs, but good owners make it alot easier for all.

Not long ago, we had an elderly man walking his little maltese dogs, he had 2, and a staffy came out of nowhere and bit one of the dogs. Poor man was devestated. He ended up losing him.

I get annoyed with people that dont have their dogs on leads, I dont care how good the dog is. ThankGod that hasnt been often of late.

Julia, I cant understand why someone with a small dog would do that, no way I would.

 

[awg]

Not only that: In tonight's 7PM Project, it was argued that a ban would only drive the breeders and holders "underground". They also pointed out that in Victoria, the maximum fine a pitbull owner faces if his weapon maims or kills someone is $4,500.

In other States, fines are somewhat harsher, but still totally inadequate. Let's see: Why not hold the owner responsible and get retribution in kind. For every puncture wound their beast inflicts, have one of the owner's tattoos removed. ... with a flensing knife! ... sans anesthetics!

I would be surprised if you had much protection against civil action if your animal causes damages?

Except being broke, which the owner probably is.

I find it difficult to contain my actions with respect to irresponsible dog owners on occassions, but I almost never say anything as it rarely is recieved well.

I have twice been the victim of dog attacks, and on each occasion demanded compensation, on threat of legal complaint.

They both paid up, I was so enraged by the second situation, that I almost completely lost my cool, leaving the owners with such a look of terror on their faces, I will never forget.

I like Staffies, and a very friendly one runs about our neighborhood, but no dog should be roaming the streets ( unfortunately for the dogs)

 

[Julia]

I have to agree with you there Logique, I am abit the same with the aggressive dogs, but good owners make it alot easier for all.

Not long ago, we had an elderly man walking his little maltese dogs, he had 2, and a staffy came out of nowhere and bit one of the dogs. Poor man was devestated. He ended up losing him.

I'm so sorry to hear that. Must have been so distressing for the owner. I'd be as furious as awg has described himself if either I or my dog were hurt.

I think that once any dog has caused physical damage to either another dog or a person, there should be no second chances. It should be the end for that dog.
I don't know about other areas, but here the law is way too soft in this regard.
All that happens is that the dog is officially labeled a "Dangerous Dog" and a sign has to be placed on the front fence of its property.
There was an incident recently where one such dog, a huge mixed breed, jumped the fence and almost killed a poodle being walked nearby. The owner of the poodle was also injured as she tried to get the attacker off her dog.
Poodle had much veterinary attention and took about six months to be able to walk again. Was even then spooked and afraid to go out. The owners of the big dog paid the vet expenses but no compensation. They were apparently renters and unemployed so no money.

I get annoyed with people that dont have their dogs on leads, I dont care how good the dog is.

Tink, you may be unreasonably regarding the lead as insurance against wayward dogs.
Example: my dog is much stronger than I am and if I simply depended on controlling her via a lead, she could do what she liked!
Conversely, if you properly train a dog to walk calmly at heel, ignoring all other dogs and other provocation, that dog being off a lead is entirely safe.

Julia, I cant understand why someone with a small dog would do that, no way I would.

No, of course you wouldn't. But you are a responsible person. Sadly the same cannot be said for many dog owners.

 

[pixel]

That's the problem with civil action:
All too often, the owners of the menace are not only irresponsible as dog owners, but also "unfortunate victims of circumstances" in the material stakes. The term "renters" has been mentioned...
So, even if you win compensation in a civil lawsuit, you'll remain out of pocket for your own legal fees because there's nothing of value to compensate you with.

The other aspect, probably most applicable in the case at the core of this discussion where the child of a (Somali?) migrant family has been killed: Can we even begin to comprehend the heartache and confusion a civil lawsuit would inflict on the extended family? One child dead, another one critically injured, and a young adult also severely traumatised. They'd be completely out of their depth, were they required to follow due process according to Australian Officialdom's Red Tape.
I've been involved in a rather clear-cut civil claim, and even that dragged on for four years; looking back on all the aggravation and time wasted, I sometimes wonder if the money I eventually got out of it was worth the effort...

 

[Tink]

Thanks Julia, I do understand what you are saying regarding the lead. It is all in the training.

We have a couple close by with 3 German Shepherds, and they must be the most well behaved dogs I have ever met, but it still gets people and their dogs on edge watching the 3 wandering around the couple, especially if they dont know them.