US Election Thread

Came across this Letter from the Editor in a Cleveland Newspaper. Apparently it made headlines around the world becasue of the very neat way it treated facts.

Our Trump reporting upsets some readers, but there aren’t two sides to facts: Letter from the Editor​

.... This is a tough column to write, because I don’t want to demean or insult those who write me in good faith. I’ve started it a half dozen times since November but turned to other topics each time because this needle is hard to thread. No matter how I present it, I’ll offend some thoughtful, decent people.

The north star here is truth. We tell the truth, even when it offends some of the people who pay us for information.

The truth is that Donald Trump undermined faith in our elections in his false bid to retain the presidency. He sparked an insurrection intended to overthrow our government and keep himself in power. No president in our history has done worse.

This is not subjective. We all saw it. Plenty of leaders today try to convince the masses we did not see what we saw, but our eyes don’t deceive. (If leaders began a yearslong campaign today to convince us that the Baltimore bridge did not collapse Tuesday morning, would you ever believe them?) Trust your eyes. Trump on Jan. 6 launched the most serious threat to our system of government since the Civil War. You know that. You saw it.

The facts involving Trump are crystal clear, and as news people, we cannot pretend otherwise, as unpopular as that might be with a segment of our readers. There aren’t two sides to facts. People who say the earth is flat don’t get space on our platforms. If that offends them, so be it.

As for those who equate Trump and Joe Biden, that’s false equivalency. Biden has done nothing remotely close to the egregious, anti-American acts of Trump. We can debate the success and mindset of our current president, as we have about most presidents in our lifetimes, but Biden was never a threat to our democracy. Trump is. He is unique among all American presidents for his efforts to keep power at any cost.

From Bas's letter from the Editor

"The angry writers denounce me for ignoring what they call the Biden family crime syndicate and criminality far beyond that of Trump. They quote news sources of no credibility as proof the mainstream media ignores evidence that Biden, not Trump, is the criminal dictator."


Then this, which is exactly what happen during the last Trump term.


"Personally, I find it hard to understand how Americans who take pride in our system of government support Trump. All those soldiers who died in World War II were fighting against the kind of regime Trump wants to create on our soil. How do they not see it?


The March 25 edition of the New Yorker magazine offers some insight. It includes a detailed review of a new book about Adolf Hitler, focused on the year 1932. It’s called “Takeover: Hitler’s Final Rise to Power” and is by historian Timothy W. Ryback. It explains how German leaders – including some in the media -- thought they could use Hitler as a means to get power for themselves and were willing to look past his obvious deficiencies to get where they wanted. In tolerating and using Hitler as a means to an end, they helped create the monstrous dictator responsible for millions of deaths.


How are those German leaders different from people in Congress saying the election was stolen or that Jan. 6 was not an insurrection aimed at destroying our government? They know the truth, but they deny it. They see Trump as a means to an end – power for themselves and their “team” – even if it means repeatedly telling lies."

IFocus said:

From Bas's letter from the Editor

"The angry writers denounce me for ignoring what they call the Biden family crime syndicate and criminality far beyond that of Trump. They quote news sources of no credibility as proof the mainstream media ignores evidence that Biden, not Trump, is the criminal dictator."


Then this, which is exactly what happen during the last Trump term.


"Personally, I find it hard to understand how Americans who take pride in our system of government support Trump. All those soldiers who died in World War II were fighting against the kind of regime Trump wants to create on our soil. How do they not see it?


The March 25 edition of the New Yorker magazine offers some insight. It includes a detailed review of a new book about Adolf Hitler, focused on the year 1932. It’s called “Takeover: Hitler’s Final Rise to Power” and is by historian Timothy W. Ryback. It explains how German leaders – including some in the media -- thought they could use Hitler as a means to get power for themselves and were willing to look past his obvious deficiencies to get where they wanted. In tolerating and using Hitler as a means to an end, they helped create the monstrous dictator responsible for millions of deaths.


How are those German leaders different from people in Congress saying the election was stolen or that Jan. 6 was not an insurrection aimed at destroying our government? They know the truth, but they deny it. They see Trump as a means to an end – power for themselves and their “team” – even if it means repeatedly telling lies."

Click to expand...

Glad you checked it out and highlighted more from the editor of the paper.
The whole story is an excellent read. I just chose a couple of points

IFocus said:

From Bas's letter from the Editor

"The angry writers denounce me for ignoring what they call the Biden family crime syndicate and criminality far beyond that of Trump. They quote news sources of no credibility as proof the mainstream media ignores evidence that Biden, not Trump, is the criminal dictator."


Then this, which is exactly what happen during the last Trump term.


"Personally, I find it hard to understand how Americans who take pride in our system of government support Trump. All those soldiers who died in World War II were fighting against the kind of regime Trump wants to create on our soil. How do they not see it?


The March 25 edition of the New Yorker magazine offers some insight. It includes a detailed review of a new book about Adolf Hitler, focused on the year 1932. It’s called “Takeover: Hitler’s Final Rise to Power” and is by historian Timothy W. Ryback. It explains how German leaders – including some in the media -- thought they could use Hitler as a means to get power for themselves and were willing to look past his obvious deficiencies to get where they wanted. In tolerating and using Hitler as a means to an end, they helped create the monstrous dictator responsible for millions of deaths.


How are those German leaders different from people in Congress saying the election was stolen or that Jan. 6 was not an insurrection aimed at destroying our government? They know the truth, but they deny it. They see Trump as a means to an end – power for themselves and their “team” – even if it means repeatedly telling lies."

Click to expand...

Had it ever occurred to you that this concept of people behind the scenes adopting power for themselves has been right undefr your nose but you failed to recognise it?
There has been a decrepit octagenerian masquerading as POTIUS for the last 4 years.
Somebody was pulling the strings, as the people behind the scenes could no longer gaslight the American people by saying that Biden was sharp as a tack, on the ball etc etc.
Obvious crap, but it was line pushed by the elites.
Somebody was calling the shots behind the scenes, but that has always been the case.
Trump when in power was not at all interested in many issues that normally would occupy the minds of a POTUS, so he ignored them and let other morons make the decisions.
Nothing in American politics is pure, it never has been.
But people who are idealogically rusted on to a particular side, will only see the issues from their idealogical perspective.
Mick

Lets lighten the mood with a song and dance routine shall we ?

mullokintyre said:

Had it ever occurred to you that this concept of people behind the scenes adopting power for themselves has been right undefr your nose but you failed to recognise it?
There has been a decrepit octagenerian masquerading as POTIUS for the last 4 years.
Somebody was pulling the strings, as the people behind the scenes could no longer gaslight the American people by saying that Biden was sharp as a tack, on the ball etc etc.
Obvious crap, but it was line pushed by the elites.
Somebody was calling the shots behind the scenes, but that has always been the case.
Trump when in power was not at all interested in many issues that normally would occupy the minds of a POTUS, so he ignored them and let other morons make the decisions.
Nothing in American politics is pure, it never has been.
But people who are idealogically rusted on to a particular side, will only see the issues from their idealogical perspective.
Mick

Click to expand...

Actually Mick the Editor of the Cleveland Newspaper was talking about FACTS. The reporting of facts, The refusal to report lies because they balance facts.
The Fact that Donald Trump and almost everything hes say is a LIE. The fact that has a string of criminal convictions and indictments that should shame any other politician out of the arena.

And he addressed your issues as well. The attempt to paint Joe Biden as equivalent to Donald Trump using another stream of unsupported, unevidenced lies.

mullokintyre said:

Had it ever occurred to you that this concept of people behind the scenes adopting power for themselves has been right undefr your nose but you failed to recognise it?
There has been a decrepit octagenerian masquerading as POTIUS for the last 4 years.
Somebody was pulling the strings, as the people behind the scenes could no longer gaslight the American people by saying that Biden was sharp as a tack, on the ball etc etc.
Obvious crap, but it was line pushed by the elites.
Somebody was calling the shots behind the scenes, but that has always been the case.
Trump when in power was not at all interested in many issues that normally would occupy the minds of a POTUS, so he ignored them and let other morons make the decisions.
Nothing in American politics is pure, it never has been.
But people who are idealogically rusted on to a particular side, will only see the issues from their idealogical perspective.
Mick

Click to expand...

I understand your points and largely agree on some, Biden shouldn't be president but then nor should Trump for very different reasons and disagree that Trump is acceptable his language alone should rule him out of contention.

I am not a Democrat fan but certainly see them as the lesser evil ATM, ideology has nothing to do with my position particularly as large sections of the Dems support current gun laws, fail to address the extreme poverty gap, continue to undermine the middle class and unions, failed to implement proper health care reforms and pages of other failures but then that is the US and as you say "Nothing in American politics is pure, it never has been." their social conscience is lacking.

However Biden and or his supporters are not undermining the system of law and its processors, the function of the courts, haven't stormed the capital lately, haven't denied election results after court rulings (Gore actually won against Bush far closer than Trump against Biden) Biden doesn't have a Project 25 in the background, is not running a full time prosecutor against Trump like the Republicans have, hasn't publicly vowed revenge on anyone.

I struggle to see how anyone can see Trump as acceptable and I understand the view that Harris is far from acceptable but at least Harris has come from the right side of the law unlike Trump.

The article posted by Bas resonants because it's on point and heartfelt witten plus undeniable IMHO.

basilio said:

Actually Mick the Editor of the Cleveland Newspaper was talking about FACTS. The reporting of facts, The refusal to report lies because they balance facts.
The Fact that Donald Trump and almost everything hes say is a LIE. The fact that has a string of criminal convictions and indictments that should shame any other politician out of the arena.

Click to expand...

yeah of course,
Hyperbole? Not from BAS.
Putting the word in Bold lettering doesn't make it true.

basilio said:

And he addressed your issues as well. The attempt to paint Joe Biden as equivalent to Donald Trump using another stream of unsupported, unevidenced lies.

Click to expand...

Another straw man argument.
I never equated Biden to trump.
I said that Biden was a puppet of the power brokers, and the huge amount of footage thats everywhere showed him to be not capable to fill the role, and obviously someone else is filling that role, and Kamala Harris and her word salads give me zero confidence that she is doing the job.
if trump wins, he will also be a puppet because apart from having little interest in the affairs of the state, he lacks the intellectual capacity to evaluate non financial situations, and also lacks the ability to evaluate people who would make reasoned decisions in those situations where he has not interest, but are vital for the USA, and to some extent the rest of the world.
Mick

mullokintyre said:

yeah of course,
Hyperbole? Not from BAS.
Putting the word in Bold lettering doesn't make it true.

Another straw man argument.
I never equated Biden to trump.
I said that Biden was a puppet of the power brokers, and the huge amount of footage thats everywhere showed him to be not capable to fill the role, and obviously someone else is filling that role, and Kamala Harris and her word salads give me zero confidence that she is doing the job.
if trump wins, he will also be a puppet because apart from having little interest in the affairs of the state, he lacks the intellectual capacity to evaluate non financial situations, and also lacks the ability to evaluate people who would make reasoned decisions in those situations where he has not interest, but are vital for the USA, and to some extent the rest of the world.
Mick

Click to expand...

Try again Mick. Reporting is about FACTS. The fact Donald Trump attempted to stop the election of Joe Biden. That he tried to overthrow the 2020 election results through fake voter slates, attempting to stop Congress voting in the new President and repeatedly lying through his teeth about rigged ballots.

All of this was lies. In my view he should be in jail for these actions not attempting to take over the USA again. That is what the Editor of teh Cleveland Times was pointing out.

Not equating Donald Trump to Biden ? You can make an argument for saying there are external forces impacting on Presidents and Government. But in no universe is equating a Biden Presidency with a Trump Presidency as if they might be equally bad honest.
And Kamala Harris will leave her own mark on the USA. It certainly won't be the xxxxstain that Trump brings to the table.

All I can say, from the outside looking in is, there isn't a lot of objective input and may the biggest cash cow win.

My guess is it will be the multi nationals, who rely on third world labour for their KPI's, to support their eye watering salaries.

It is obvious that Kermit the frog could win, with the correct T.V presentation, just look at the blind media followers, one week down the toilet, next week through the roof.

Well if she was as good as the poll swing says, she would have been put in a while back when Joe started struggling, to wait until the poor old bloke makes a fool of himself on T.V shows they really didn't have a lot of confidence in the Vice President.

I think I mentioned before, why don't they put Kamila forward and some mentioned she wasn't up to it.
Sounds like that's changed.

I'm following Bas, sounds like she is right on the pulse, has a feel for the general mood.

So I'm guessing Kamila and a war, with a huge swing to the left.

2 minutes of Tim Walz. Comes over well

Two generations, 60 years ago. The 1964 US Presidential election
The 1964 election was between Lyndon B Johnston (Southern Democrat) vs Barry Goldwater (Conservative Republican)
The parallels to 2024 are striking. Barry Goldwater was ardently supported by the John Birch Society and every other extremist, racist group in the US. Barry Goldwater appeared as an urbane, sensible politician; nothing like Donald Trump.
Johnson won in a landslide
Check out this history lesson

Barry Goldwater’s critics saw today’s Republican extremism in 1964 ​

The conspiracism, Christian nationalism, and pandering to racists we see today in the GOP was brought into the party long before Trump​

Seth Cotlar​

As the 1964 Republican convention approached, many political observers warned that right-wing extremists were about to take over the Grand Old Party. The mainstream media rang the alarm bells, churning out a stream of documentaries, books, and articles with titles like “Thunder on the Right,” “Danger on the Right,” and “Barry Goldwater: Extremist of the Right.” The GOP — whose banner had been carried by stodgy caretakers like Warren Harding and Calvin Coolidge in the 1920s and self-described moderates like Thomas Dewey, Dwight Eisenhower, and Richard Nixon since WWII — was poised to pick as their Presidential nominee, Barry Goldwater, the polarizing darling of the American right. When Goldwater delivered the now famous line in his acceptance speech, “extremism in defense of liberty is no vice,” his supporters leapt to their feet and cheered for a full minute, some fixing menacing stares on the moderates in their midst who were less enamored of such fighting words. The Goldwater enthusiasts taunted skeptics with buttons that said “In your heart you know he’s right.” His critics countered with “In your guts, you know he’s nuts.”

How could this happen? How could the party of stolid, respectable competence — more suit-wearing Kenosha banker than bolo-tie sporting Phoenix cowboy — hand the keys over to a shoot-from-the-hip iconoclast who opposed almost everything the federal government did apart from preparing to fight a world-obliterating nuclear war? In the closing scene of Dr. Strangelove, released to critical acclaim in January of 1964, Slim Pickens’s character rides a nuclear warhead to his death, hooting and hollering and waving his cowboy hat like a good freedom-loving American. For the majority of Americans who had not yet jumped on the Goldwater bandwagon, watching the GOP convention at Oakland’s Cow Palace in July 1964 felt like watching Slim Pickens ride gleefully toward the inevitable mushroom cloud that spelled his (and the world’s) destruction. There’s good reason the anti-Goldwater daisy ad struck a chord with the American electorate.

But it wasn’t just Goldwater himself who inspired feelings of puzzled disdain among the political commentariat of 1964, it was also his supporters, the “deplorables” of their day. The South’s most ardent segregationists, for example, flocked to Goldwater’s standard because of his outspoken opposition to the landmark Civil Rights Act. Such folks had filled roadsides in the South in recent years with “impeach Earl Warren” billboards to express their revulsion at the Chief Justice who’d spearheaded the Brown v. Board decision. And then there were the reactionary industrialists who thrilled to Goldwater’s virulent anti-unionism. These important funders of Goldwater’s campaign thought union leaders like Walter Reuther posed as great a threat to American freedom as Nikita Khrushchev. Goldwater’s grassroots operation, meanwhile, was staffed by an army of paranoid John Birchers who saw America-hating “comsymps” (communist sympathizers) stealthily taking over school boards, churches, the media, the Democratic and Republican Parties, and virtually every other institution in the country. Goldwater was also backed by retired General Edwin Walker, the “better dead than Red,” trigger-happy anti-Communist zealot who was parodied in Dr. Strangelove by the character of General Ripper, of “precious bodily fluids” fame.

If in 1964 you thought the US should pull out of the “satanic UN” because it posed an existential threat to your church and your family, then Goldwater was your man. If in 1964 you thought disgraced Senator Joseph McCarthy was a great American patriot who had been given a raw deal by a witch hunting press then again, Goldwater was your guy. Not all Goldwater supporters were deeply reactionary racists or antisemites who believed in outrageous conspiracy theories, but it appeared that the nation’s most outspoken, reactionary bigots and conspiracy theorists were all Goldwater supporters. Was it unfair to associate Goldwater with the excesses of his most ardent supporters? Or was it naïve to overlook the dark and familiar, illiberal energies that had gathered around the figure of Goldwater and forcefully propelled him to the head of the Republican Party, despite the best efforts of the party’s more moderate establishment? In 1964, no one knew what the future held and thus no one knew just how concerned they should be.

​

Seth Cotlar​

Seth Cotlar is a Professor of History at Willamette University and the author of Tom Paine's America. He is currently working on a book about the long history of illiberal conservatism in the United States.

As I've detailed somewhere on this forum, some months ago I took $4.20 on the Trump win.

I also took $10.00 something on the Newsome candidacy... Lost on that one.

About a month ago Trump was down to $1.70 and I was considering cashing out and locking in the profit. Now up to $2.10 with Kamaltoe at $2.00 on Betfair.

Still a tasty profit and a profit overall if I cash out now... decisions, decisions.

wayneL said:

As I've detailed somewhere on this forum, some months ago I took $4.20 on the Trump win.

I also took $10.00 something on the Newsome candidacy... Lost on that one.

About a month ago Trump was down to $1.70 and I was considering cashing out and locking in the profit. Now up to $2.10 with Kamaltoe at $2.00 on Betfair.

Still a tasty profit and a profit overall if I cash out now... decisions, decisions.

Click to expand...

No one ever went broke taking a profit.
Just sayin...
Mick

mullokintyre said:

No one ever went broke taking a profit.
Just sayin...
Mick

Click to expand...

I'm reviewing the concept of bulls, bears, and pigs.... Upside/downside.

Perhaps I'll take the money and run

Observations of Trumps fully telecasted Mars a Lago Press Conference from the Lincoln project

Nancy Pelosi put on her biggest hob nailed boots and kicked the living xhit out of Donald Trump. Gutsy,gutsy woman

Nancy Pelosi takes aim at Paul Keating over his 'ridiculous' statement on Taiwan, speaks out on the dangers of Donald Trump​

.....Ms Pelosi led the Democrats in the house for 20 years and in a new book, The Art of Power, she recounts her rise within the Democratic Party that was dominated by male leaders.


Ms Pelosi says if Donald Trump had have shown up at the US Capitol riots she would have hit him.(AP: Manuel Balce Ceneta/File)
None of that history however prepared her for Donald Trump.

"Nothing could prepare anybody for a president who would cite an insurrection against the Congress of the United States, in the Capitol of the United States, against the Constitution of the United States," Ms Pelosi said.

Her memories of the mob which descended on the Capitol on January 6, 2021, the day Joe Biden's election victory was being certified, are painful.

"They brought danger, they brought disgrace," Ms Pelosi told 7.30.

"They brought defecation on the floor of the Capitol, the capital of the United States, a symbol of liberty and democracy to the world.

"They brought Confederate flags under the dome that Lincoln built when he was president of the United States, unifying the country by winning the Civil War. And what they did was completely outrageous."

The 84-year-old says she would have hit Trump if he had tried to enter the Capitol that day,

"If he came — as a matter of self defence — I would have to beat him up, and I would probably have to go to jail for beating him up, and that would be okay with me."

Ms Pelosi holds the Republican leadership in Congress responsible for failing to turn their backs on Trump after the Capitol was attacked.

She has also been dealing with the aftermath of the brutal assault on her husband Paul, who was attacked with a hammer by a man who broke into their San Francisco home in October 2022.

The intruder was looking for her.

"When it happened, he [Trump], his children, Republican governors, other Republican leaders made fun of it," Ms Pelosi said.

"They thought it was really a laugh, they told jokes about it on their social media.

"That was disgusting, and that was directly from him ... he's pathetic."
Ms Pelosi says that while she accepts she may be targeted with violence as a politician it is not something the rest of her family signed up for.

"I signed up for this. My husband didn't, my children and my grandchildren didn't," Ms Pelosi told 7.30.

Republican party is a 'cult to a thug'​

"The Republican Party should take back their party. Their grand old party, did great things for our country, provided great leadership, now they're a cult to a thug.

"We're not running against Bob Dole, Mitt Romney, George Bush senior, George W Bush, that was a different kind of race, where you win, you lose, you negotiate, you go forward.

"This is something quite different, an assault on the democracy, on the Capitol, on the Constitution, on the Congress of the United States.

"So, we must win that, but we can't become them in the fight."

This sums up the madness very simply: