Ukraine War

[Value Collector]

Here is a video showing a USA designed small Tactical Nuke, you can see it’s not the kind of thing that would destroy a city.

But I have no idea how large Russia’s “Tactical” nukes are, or where they would deploy it.

 

[noirua]

 

[noirua]

MSN

 

[joeno]

am for peace but appear we have not made much progress towards it. Here is a few of my observations:

- The media are not shy to remind us every day genocide is occurring...

- The narrative seems to be: Russia invaded a (poor) (divided) (but European) country now we must come together as a world to destroy their leader and country because nothing like this has happened in the last 50 years. Hmm...

- Europe seems to be having a huge energy crisis. US is fine and not much impacted. No lives at risk. No oil pipelines. Good for their defense companies.

- Russia says it's a "military operation". The US says they're "helping Ukrainians defend themselves" indefinitely. Russian weapons vs US weapons. It has been reported a large % of recruits from Russia are minorities, poor men who are treated like... pawns. Who else could be pawns. hmm...

- Social Media platforms in western democracies require users to be pro-Ukrainian as policy otherwise they likely will be banned.

Maybe we should just believe everything that is thrown at us by the media and keep life simple. Russia bad. NATO totally good. No expansion. Totally defensive pact that never meddles with other countries' affairs let alone invade countries. Nothing could've been done to stop Russia from invading Ukraine. Jog on.

 

[JohnDe]

am for peace but appear we have not made much progress towards it. Here is a few of my observations:

- The media are not shy to remind us every day genocide is occurring...

- The narrative seems to be: Russia invaded a (poor) (divided) (but European) country now we must come together as a world to destroy their leader and country because nothing like this has happened in the last 50 years. Hmm...

- Europe seems to be having a huge energy crisis. US is fine and not much impacted. No lives at risk. No oil pipelines. Good for their defense companies.

- Russia says it's a "military operation". The US says they're "helping Ukrainians defend themselves" indefinitely. Russian weapons vs US weapons. It has been reported a large % of recruits from Russia are minorities, poor men who are treated like... pawns. Who else could be pawns. hmm...

- Social Media platforms in the western democracies requires users to be pro-Ukrainia otherwise likely will be banned. Hmm..

Maybe this is all whataboutism and we should just believe everything that is thrown at us by the media and keep life simple. Russia bad. NATO totally innocent. No expansion. Totally defensive pact that never meddles with other countries' affairs let alone invade countries. Nothing could've been done to stop Russia from invading Ukraine. Jog on.

Maybe there is a fear of history repeating.

How Hitler Conquered Germany
The Nazi propaganda machine exploited ordinary Germans by encouraging them to be co-producers of a false reality.

DECEIVING THE PUBLIC
The Nazis frequently used propaganda to disguise their political aims and deceive the German and international public. They depicted Germany as the victim of Allied and Jewish aggression to hide their true ideological goals and to justify war and violence against innocent civilians.

 

[JohnDe]

Russia is not a democracy that has the ability to vote in a new government or leader.

Putin has no fear of lying or sending his secret service agents to kill his enemies on foreign soil.

These are long proven and known facts.

The Ukraine has not threatened to use nuclear weapons, in-fact they decommissioned all of their nuclear arsenal years ago.

Putin has told the world that he is "not bluffing" if he feels the need to use Russia's nuclear weapons.

 

[Ferret]

Maybe we should just believe everything that is thrown at us by the media and keep life simple. Russia bad. NATO totally good. No expansion. Totally defensive pact that never meddles with other countries' affairs let alone invade countries. Nothing could've been done to stop Russia from invading Ukraine. Jog on.

You cross a line when you send your tanks uninvited across a border.

 

[Dona Ferentes]

You cross a line when you send your tanks uninvited across a border.

or target civilians

From ISW
The October 17 drone attack on residential infrastructure in Kyiv is consistent with the broader pattern of Russian forces prioritizing creating psychological terror effects on Ukraine over achieving tangible battlefield effects.
US military analyst Brett Friedman observed on October 17 that a Shahed-136's payload is 88 pounds of explosives, whereas a typical 155mm M795 artillery round carries 23.8 pounds of explosives, which means that one Shahed-136 drone carries about three shells worth of explosive material but without the consistent pattern of fragmentation.[4] Friedman suggested that the five Shahed-136s that struck Kyiv had the effect of 15 artillery shells fired at a very large area.[5] Such strikes can do great damage to civilian infrastructure and kill and wound many people without creating meaningful military effects. This analysis suggests that Russian forces are continuing to use Shahed-136 drones to generate the psychological effects associated with targeting civilian areas instead of attempting to generate asymmetric operational effects by striking legitimate military and frontline targets in a concentrated manner.

 

[bohemian]

am for peace but appear we have not made much progress towards it. Here is a few of my observations:

- The media are not shy to remind us every day genocide is occurring...

- The narrative seems to be: Russia invaded a (poor) (divided) (but European) country now we must come together as a world to destroy their leader and country because nothing like this has happened in the last 50 years. Hmm...

- Europe seems to be having a huge energy crisis. US is fine and not much impacted. No lives at risk. No oil pipelines. Good for their defense companies.

- Russia says it's a "military operation". The US says they're "helping Ukrainians defend themselves" indefinitely. Russian weapons vs US weapons. It has been reported a large % of recruits from Russia are minorities, poor men who are treated like... pawns. Who else could be pawns. hmm...

- Social Media platforms in western democracies require users to be pro-Ukrainian as policy otherwise they likely will be banned.

Maybe we should just believe everything that is thrown at us by the media and keep life simple. Russia bad. NATO totally good. No expansion. Totally defensive pact that never meddles with other countries' affairs let alone invade countries. Nothing could've been done to stop Russia from invading Ukraine. Jog on.

"The narrative seems to be" yeah right, no it doesn't seem, its a fact the Russian oligarchy invaded its independent sovereign neighbour without provocation. Yes NATO is good and not aggressive. Poland and every other East European states voluntarily joined after the Soviet Union withdrew their occupying forces 30 years ago.

 

[Knobby22]

"The narrative seems to be" yeah right, no it doesn't seem, its a fact the Russian oligarchy invaded its independent sovereign neighbour without provocation. Yes NATO is good and not aggressive. Poland and every other East European states voluntarily joined after the Soviet Union withdrew their occupying forces 30 years ago.

So are you saying we should do what exactly?

 

[bohemian]

So are you saying we should do what exactly?

We all support Ukraine 100%, don't accept Russian propaganda and right wing conspiracy theory lies and disinformation.

 

[Knobby22]

We all support Ukraine 100%, don't accept Russian propaganda and right wing conspiracy theory lies and disinformation.

Dictatorship attacking a Democracy. Easy choice.

 

[bluekelah]

Yes, As I said there is no nukes pointed at Russia is Romania or Poland, the USA abandoned equipping tomahawks with Nukes 10years ago.

The reason Russia is upset with the defensive systems is not because they can be reloaded with nukes, but because they may counter act a Russian attack, so it weakens russias position.

It’s a bit like having a hostile neighbour armed with a pistol, that becomes peaceful because they know you also have a pistol. If you see that neighbour putting on a bullet proof vest and helmet, the peace is at risk because now one sides pistol might be less effective.

Nukes can be fired from all sorts of equipment, they can even be fired from Artillery, so I don’t know why Russia would be particularly scared of the defence system, except for the fact it reduces their power to attack.

With landed systems they can launch missiles at anytime without warning. Other forms of deployment require moving the nuclear sub/ship/artillery/bombers into position which would allow much larger window of opportunity to deploy countermeasures.

 

[Value Collector]

With landed systems they can launch missiles at anytime without warning. Other forms of deployment require moving the nuclear sub/ship/artillery/bombers into position which would allow much larger window of opportunity to deploy countermeasures.

They can only fire a nuke if they have a nuke to fire, which they won’t in that system, as I said it’s designed to shoot down nukes, that’s the reason russia is upset.

Mutually assured destruction only works if both sides aren’t wearing bullet proof vest, Russia is upset that NATO is putting on a bullet proof vest, not that it’s pointing guns at them.

 

[joeno]

Maybe there is a fear of history repeating.

How Hitler Conquered Germany
The Nazi propaganda machine exploited ordinary Germans by encouraging them to be co-producers of a false reality.

DECEIVING THE PUBLIC
The Nazis frequently used propaganda to disguise their political aims and deceive the German and international public. They depicted Germany as the victim of Allied and Jewish aggression to hide their true ideological goals and to justify war and violence against innocent civilians.

"The Nazi propaganda machine exploited ordinary Germans by encouraging them to be co-producers of a false reality."

"The Nazis frequently used propaganda to disguise their political aims and deceive the German and international public. They depicted Germany as the victim of Allied and Jewish aggression to hide their true ideological goals and to justify war and violence against innocent civilians."

Ah I see many parallels. Oh wait... we're talking about Russia? My bad.

You cross a line when you send your tanks uninvited across a border.

Correct. Oh wait we're talking about Russia? My bad. Was thinking about some other countries.

or target civilians

Absolutely. Oh wait we're talking about Russia? My bad. Was thinking about someone else...

"The narrative seems to be" yeah right, no it doesn't seem, its a fact the Russian oligarchy invaded its independent sovereign neighbour without provocation. Yes NATO is good and not aggressive. Poland and every other East European states voluntarily joined after the Soviet Union withdrew their occupying forces 30 years ago.

Totally true. Those oligarchs invading an independent sovereign nation without provocation nor excuse based on a memorandum from 1990 is despicable. Oh wait we're talking about Russia? My bad. Was thinking about someone else.


Anyways I highly condemn Russia as doing anything else will likely get me banned and censored. So please take all of my comments as condemnation of Russia. Down with Putin. They're wrong we're right. Freedom. Democracy. etc.

We all support Ukraine 100%, don't accept Russian propaganda and right wing conspiracy theory lies and disinformation.

You support Ukraine more than you support peace & negotiations? Ok I will listen to you. Let's do this. Let us fight this upcoming nuclear war with Russia and hope to win.

 

[JohnDe]

"The Nazi propaganda machine exploited ordinary Germans by encouraging them to be co-producers of a false reality."

"The Nazis frequently used propaganda to disguise their political aims and deceive the German and international public. They depicted Germany as the victim of Allied and Jewish aggression to hide their true ideological goals and to justify war and violence against innocent civilians."

Ah I see many parallels. Oh wait... we're talking about Russia? My bad.



Correct. Oh wait we're talking about Russia? My bad. Was thinking about some other countries.


Absolutely. Oh wait we're talking about Russia? My bad. Was thinking about someone else...


Totally true. Those oligarchs invading an independent sovereign nation without provocation nor excuse based on a memorandum from 1990 is despicable. Oh wait we're talking about Russia? My bad. Was thinking about someone else.


Anyways I highly condemn Russia as doing anything else will likely get me banned and censored. So please take all of my comments as condemnation of Russia. Down with Putin. They're wrong we're right. Freedom. Democracy. etc.



You support Ukraine more than you support peace & negotiations? Ok I will listen to you. Let's do this. Let us fight this upcoming nuclear war with Russia and hope to win.

Oh wait, peace & negotiations start by bombing civilians.

Oh wait, England has some experience in having their capital bombed by a dictator let’s find out what they think.

 

[joeno]

Oh wait, peace & negotiations start by bombing civilians.

Oh wait, England has some experience in having their capital bombed by a dictator let’s find out what they think.

Yes totally agree. What's the problem? I am PRO Nato and ANTI Russia. I don't want to be censored / possibly sent to Gitmo man. Come on.

I too prefer not reading (eww). Instead, being blasted by rhetoric feels so good and easy and makes me feel like I have friends. ?

 

[JohnDe]

Yes totally agree. What's the problem? I am PRO Nato and ANTI Russia. I don't want to be censored / possibly sent to Gitmo man. Come on.

I too prefer not reading (eww). Instead, being blasted by rhetoric feels so good and easy and makes me feel like I have friends. ?

You keep mentioning your fear of being censored, why is that?

No one, as far as I can tell, has been censored or banned from this forum for making comments about the Russian invasion of Ukraine land.

Don't stress, no one knows you here.

 

[divs4ever]

Russia appoints new military commander after Ukraine setbacks

The Kremlin appointed General Sergey Surovikin as the overall leader of Russian troops in Ukraine on Saturday, after weeks of battlefield losses.

www.euronews.com

Russia appointed a new commander on Saturday to lead its troops in Ukraine after suffering a series of military setbacks over the past weeks.

Sergey Surovikin, a general, previously led Russian forces in Syria. Here he was accused of using brutal and controversial military tactics, such as the indiscriminate bombing of anti-government strongholds.
Surovikin has a shady past, serving time in prison twice for allegedly selling weapons and then leading a military column against protesters during the 1991 coup, which resulted in three deaths.

as long as he shares the weapons he acquires ( from the West ) with the Russian scientists/engineers , i can't see the problem ( maybe the defense ministry will give him a cash 'finder's fee )

only three deaths ?? we are talking Russia here , football fans do worse than that after any big match

now the more important part is he knows how to squash a terrorist insurgency ( and the four territories VOTED to join Russia , before he was appointed commander )

BTW brutal , crude and ruthless is what Russia does best .. ask Germany circa WW2 .. Ukraine had several months to negotiate ( between March and September )

 

[joeno]

You keep mentioning your fear of being censored, why is that?

No one, as far as I can tell, has been censored or banned from this forum for making comments about the Russian invasion of Ukraine land.

Don't stress, no one knows you here.

RT / all Russian news networks got dropped overnight after the invasion from Youtube / TV. In contrast all American and Indian propa- oops i mean news networks still operating.

Facebook / Twitter / reddit outright banning Russian accounts. Promoting the Russians-are-orcs theory. Asset seizure of rich Russians. Being banned for viewing the issue from both sides. If you don't get auto-banned, for some reason questioning media rhetoric is met with swift unanimous downvotes. Hmm who could be reacting to messages quickly! It's almost like they are being encouraged or... paid. Perhaps.

Anyways better not go against the narrative! Just force a smile and say "Nato good. Russia bad. More weapons for Ukraine"