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Ukraine War

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Smurf1976 said:
Having the crew literally sitting on the ammunition inside the body of the tank.

Hmm... what could possibly go wrong with that? :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
Realistically, whether you are sitting on these or 2m away(max) does not make any difference.
Tanks, once breached,are over.even a single bullet once in the habitacle ricochets and ravages all.
Tank crews are fodder,and have been in all wars since WWII.
A new Russian command will see escalation and the US happy as this has been the aim since the start.
i somewhat would advice Angelina Jolie and the lines of PM and Presidents taking the train to Kiev might not be a good idea anymore.
We are heading straight to a nuclear war, UN is absent, and populations sheeps.
Sad state of mankind
 
qldfrog said:
We are heading straight to a nuclear war, UN is absent, and populations sheeps.
Sad state of mankind
Click to expand...

The UN seems to be good for low level stuff not involving the P5 but it is a monumental failure when any of them are the transgressor. Adding Japan and Germany and majority vote for international security council action might be a solution, but could also be the unravelling of the entire beast.
 
qldfrog said:
Realistically, whether you are sitting on these or 2m away(max) does not make any difference.
Tanks, once breached,are over.even a single bullet once in the habitacle ricochets and ravages all.
Tank crews are fodder,and have been in all wars since WWII.
A new Russian command will see escalation and the US happy as this has been the aim since the start.
i somewhat would advice Angelina Jolie and the lines of PM and Presidents taking the train to Kiev might not be a good idea anymore.
We are heading straight to a nuclear war, UN is absent, and populations sheeps.
Sad state of mankind
Click to expand...
Having the ammo in a separate, hermetically sealed box can prevent a sympathetic detonation in the event the main compartment is hit with something.

Of course if the Ammo explodes the tank is gone, but with good design you can lower that chance greatly.

I am pretty sure the UK anti missile would not work on a modern Abrahams tank, when the hatches are shut, because them are sealed and pressurised.
 
Sean K said:
The UN seems to be good for low level stuff not involving the P5 but it is a monumental failure when any of them are the transgressor. Adding Japan and Germany and majority vote for international security council action might be a solution, but could also be the unravelling of the entire beast.
Click to expand...
UN:
A majority does not mean right..look at Hitler elections if anyone disagree
I think the best way would be a kind of split between 3 blocks
US/west , china/russia and maybe india brazil etc 3rd group, each with no veto but majority required to pass a resolution.
Realistically hard to achieve, but listening to US and parotting EU one side vs. China and paid friendly countries is not exactly helping fairness or mankind.
Maybe there is no solution.
 
@Smurf1976 @qldfrog

Here is a video of the Ammo is an American tanks “blow out compartment” catching fire and burning at high intensity.

You can see that the crew survive and escape before it explodes, however if that ammo fire was underneath the gunners seat, he would be instantly fried.





At the 8 minute mark of this video it talks about the ammo compartment and the blow of panels.

 
Looks like Russia is getting serious and sending a message for the Crimea bridge incident, they finally started to hit critical infrastructure like water and electricity, war should be over in a couple weeks if Kyiv doesnt have water supply and have no way to truck it in.

www.abc.net.au

'There will be others': Russia issues warning after series of deadly attacks on Ukraine cities

Russia warns of more attacks as Ukraine is hit hard on a day where Vladimir Putin responds to explosion of Crimea bridge with extreme force.
www.abc.net.au www.abc.net.au
 
bluekelah said:
Looks like Russia is getting serious and sending a message for the Crimea bridge incident, they finally started to hit critical infrastructure like water and electricity, war should be over in a couple weeks if Kyiv doesnt have water supply and have no way to truck it in.

www.abc.net.au

'There will be others': Russia issues warning after series of deadly attacks on Ukraine cities

Russia warns of more attacks as Ukraine is hit hard on a day where Vladimir Putin responds to explosion of Crimea bridge with extreme force.
www.abc.net.au www.abc.net.au
Click to expand...

Why wait 6 months and lose 50-80k troops if its that easy?
 
Value Collector said:
Of course if the Ammo explodes the tank is gone, but with good design you can lower that chance greatly.
Click to expand...
I’m no expert on tanks but I’m seeing some similarities with the petrol in a car.

Can’t totally avoid the risk but the detail of where it's stored and immediate surroundings (eg ignition sources in the event of an incident) can reduce the chance of the car going up in flames. You don’t put the petrol tank directly above the engine* for example, that’s technically easy but asking for trouble and you don't mount it on the front of the car so it's the first thing to be hit in an accident. Etc. With sensible placement the risk isn't eliminated but it's reduced.

I'm thinking along similar lines for ammunition in military tanks. Having the crew literally sitting on it seems like an unnecessarily dangerous way of doing it.

*Though there's at least one car that does indeed have the petrol tank mounted above the engine. You pop the bonnet to fill up yes, putting fuel straight into the tank much like filling a mower etc. It came from a communist country yes, so perhaps a bit of a theme there. :2twocents
 
Smurf1976 said:
I’m no expert on tanks but I’m seeing some similarities with the petrol in a car.

Can’t totally avoid the risk but the detail of where it's stored and immediate surroundings (eg ignition sources in the event of an incident) can reduce the chance of the car going up in flames. You don’t put the petrol tank directly above the engine* for example, that’s technically easy but asking for trouble and you don't mount it on the front of the car so it's the first thing to be hit in an accident. Etc. With sensible placement the risk isn't eliminated but it's reduced.

I'm thinking along similar lines for ammunition in military tanks. Having the crew literally sitting on it seems like an unnecessarily dangerous way of doing it.

*Though there's at least one car that does indeed have the petrol tank mounted above the engine. You pop the bonnet to fill up yes, putting fuel straight into the tank much like filling a mower etc. It came from a communist country yes, so perhaps a bit of a theme there. :2twocents
Click to expand...
One last 35 second video for those interested, it shows the blast door of the Ammo bay opening and shutting as the crew load the gun.

It then shows the interior of the tank remains safe as the ammo burns.

 
againsthegrain said:
Why wait 6 months and lose 50-80k troops if its that easy?
Click to expand...
Well I guess the Russians wanted initially to limit damage to Ukrainian infrastructure and to ukrainians/Russians living in ukraine. Their main aim was to stop Ukrainian application to join NATO so nukes would not be moved into ukraine.

As I mentioned when all this first began the Russians should have just turned off kyiv and kharkiv water supply and it be over in a week or so rather than do a gentle invasion. telecommunications and electricity as well would have helped. I found it comical when Tesla sent in starlink hardware to ukraine, lol...

I guess russians are going ahead with a more normal air bombing plan now as their supply lines have been hit. So yeah unless nato sends troops into ukraine, I don't see how people and troops can survive in the capital cities without proper critical water supplies.
 
bluekelah said:
Well I guess the Russians wanted initially to limit damage to Ukrainian infrastructure and to ukrainians/Russians living in ukraine. Their main aim was to stop Ukrainian application to join NATO so nukes would not be moved into ukraine.

As I mentioned when all this first began the Russians should have just turned off kyiv and kharkiv water supply and it be over in a week or so rather than do a gentle invasion. telecommunications and electricity as well would have helped. I found it comical when Tesla sent in starlink hardware to ukraine, lol...

I guess russians are going ahead with a more normal air bombing plan now as their supply lines have been hit. So yeah unless nato sends troops into ukraine, I don't see how people and troops can survive in the capital cities without proper critical water supplies.
Click to expand...
Kyiv already hit with 90 missile strikes thus far - what did Ukraine expect after rupturing Nord stream gas pipeline followed by Crimea-Russia bridge explosion ?

This has unfortunately escalated war conflict dramatically & ominously, new Russian General in charge Surovikin is old school & ruthless/has no fear etc. He's been told to do whatever it takes to bring Ukraine to it's knees.

I fear the arrogance of the West will further provoke Russia into using nuclear weapons & then all hell is unleashed on humanity with devastating consequences. War & more threats of war & retaliation etc. sadly won't bring about a peaceful solution.
 
againsthegrain said:
Why wait 6 months and lose 50-80k troops if its that easy?
Click to expand...
Because i truly believe putin was not planning initially to flatten Ukraine.
I know many here have no idea but Ukrainian and Russian differences are minimal.it is nearly a civil war definitively was one in Donbass Crimea.
Does anyone really believe Russia could not have bombed the railway lines to Kiev in the last 6 months..you remember the ferrying of Angelina Jolie et all the so called presidents and PM there?
The US has wedged a total war so far using Ukraine and its population.Putin was not yet doing that, probably due to deals with China beforehand imho.
The so called supermaket bombing etc was all BS, now they might become real.Poor Ukrainians..
all that for dinosaur deep state thinkings who are too weak to attack China and for Biden's son pocket money.
Yes we might see a new phase.during this winter.
gas reserve are burning quickly in Europe and 30% of french service stations were empty yesterday....
 
Mick Ryan usually provides a good take on the command and control system, based on military practice and principles

His website and twitter feeds are frequent; this piece is from the ABC

www.abc.net.au

Putin's revenge is playing out on the streets of Kyiv — but he keeps repeating a crucial error

Throughout the war, Vladimir Putin has constantly failed to align his political objectives for Ukraine with the military means required to achieve them. Now he's finding out how his mistakes will haunt Russia, writes Mick Ryan.
www.abc.net.au www.abc.net.au
 
greggles said:
Yes, those gentle Russians. Gently flattening cities with artillery shells, gently summarily executing civilians, gently raping Ukrainian women and children, gently committing genocide.

Click to expand...

When the war first started I saw videos of American TV crew who were due to interview Ukrainian airbase troops but ended up fliming Russian troops taking over. Russian troops allowed them to be present and do filming. Didn't look like a real WAR type situation.

Then there were videos of Ukrainian village folk standing in front of russian tanks to stop them etc..

Looked pretty much like scrappy guerilla type fighting everywhere.

Remember the long lines of tanks and trucks supposedly in a traffic jam on the road to kyiv ?

Didn't really look like a real war type situation.

Main thing there was still internet and electricity and water in the cities in a supposedly war situation. So yeah looked pretty gentle.


Recent day missile strikes etc. Look much more like getting into a war situation.
 
bluekelah said:
When the war first started I saw videos of American TV crew who were due to interview Ukrainian airbase troops but ended up fliming Russian troops taking over. Russian troops allowed them to be present and do filming. Didn't look like a real WAR type situation.

Then there were videos of Ukrainian village folk standing in front of russian tanks to stop them etc..

Looked pretty much like scrappy guerilla type fighting everywhere.

Remember the long lines of tanks and trucks supposedly in a traffic jam on the road to kyiv ?

Didn't really look like a real war type situation.

Main thing there was still internet and electricity and water in the cities in a supposedly war situation. So yeah looked pretty gentle.


Recent day missile strikes etc. Look much more like getting into a war situation.
Click to expand...

Sounds like you were watching Russian state media, not the brutal genocidal war Putin has been waging.
 
Those gentle Russian rascals.



When this war is eventually over and Russian forces are expelled from Ukrainian lands, every single Russian government asset outside of Russia should be seized and sold with the funds generated paid to Ukraine as war reparations so they can rebuild their country. Compensation should also be paid to the families of every Ukranian killed (military of civilian) as a result of Russian aggression.
 
Last edited:
greggles said:
Those gentle Russian rascals.



When this war is eventually over and Russian forces are expelled from Ukrainian lands, every single Russian government asset outside of Russia should be seized and sold with the funds generated paid to Ukraine as war reparations so they can rebuild their country. Compensation should also be paid to the families of every Ukranian killed (military of civilian) as a result of Russian aggression.
Click to expand...

RE: "When this war is eventually over and Russian forces are expelled from Ukrainian lands"

What makes you so sure that will eventuate/be the case !?!?
 

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