Julia
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Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists
Smurf, is that a real advertisement or a cartoon?
Smurf, is that a real advertisement or a cartoon?
The Australian Greens party
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Garpal Gumnut
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Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists
It's real Julia.
Entry is via a watermelon donation.
The door prize is who can guess Senator Lee Rhiannon's real name and what party she belonged to in the 70's.
gg
It's real Julia.
Entry is via a watermelon donation.
The door prize is who can guess Senator Lee Rhiannon's real name and what party she belonged to in the 70's.
gg
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Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists
I'm not sure how widely they'll be running it, but it's a "real" advertisement poster put out by HVEC (Huon Valley Environment Centre). I note that it also mentions a number of other groups as well.
HVEC is a specific anti-forestry group, somewhat more narrowly focused than The Wilderness Society (TWS, which historically is to the Greens what unions are to Labor) or the more mainstream ones such as the Australian Conservation Foundation etc.
There has been a change of tactics in recent times. Historically, going right back to the dams debates and the blockade, there was always a main central group running the show. TWS were never far from the scene and for most of that time the likes of Bob Brown etc weren't far away either.
TWS was for most of the past 30 years effectively the defacto "direct action" arm of the Greens and their predecessors. One side focused on getting elected to parliament. The other arm focused on things like the blockade, protest rallies, chaining themselves to trees and/or equipment and so on.
In more recent times there has been a change of direction with the formation of issue-specific groups. Examples include HVEC and the similarly named Tamar Valley Environment Centre (TVEC). The latter was formed to oppose construction of a pulp mill at Bell Bay. By inference (and public comments) it also opposes the continued operation of TEMCO, Pacific Aluminium and various other factories at Bell Bay.
If you look at the big environmental battles of the past 30+ years then a disproportionate number of the big actions have taken place over Summer. One side will say this is due to the weather (it's hard to protest on a flooded river or a boggy forest during Winter). The other side will say that it's easier to get uni students and supporters from other states ("rent a crowd") if the protests are during Summer holidays.
Not associated with any of these is a more extreme element. They're the ones who put spikes in trees (intended to cause injury to forest workers) and who once planned to blow up (literally) a power station. To the best of my knowledge they never really had support from the non-terrorist inclined groups such as TWS or the Greens. They never did blow up the power station in question although tree spiking certainly has been done (mostly not in Tas however).
One step down from that and not really attributed to anyone specific are the lesser acts of vandalism and the hoaxes. Among those over the years include sabotaging / burning out logging equipment (very recently), the attempted blowing up of a railway bridge in the 1990's (ultimately a hoax) and the infamous addition of abrasives to the sump oil of construction machinery many years ago (which blows the engine). To be fair however, both sides have played this game to varying extent over the years.
People do have a right to express their opinion of course and I wouldn't want to prevent that. Much as I disagree with the Greens on many things, I do see their point over some things. They have a right to express their opinion provided that they do not harm others in doing so.
I'm not sure how widely they'll be running it, but it's a "real" advertisement poster put out by HVEC (Huon Valley Environment Centre). I note that it also mentions a number of other groups as well.
HVEC is a specific anti-forestry group, somewhat more narrowly focused than The Wilderness Society (TWS, which historically is to the Greens what unions are to Labor) or the more mainstream ones such as the Australian Conservation Foundation etc.
There has been a change of tactics in recent times. Historically, going right back to the dams debates and the blockade, there was always a main central group running the show. TWS were never far from the scene and for most of that time the likes of Bob Brown etc weren't far away either.
TWS was for most of the past 30 years effectively the defacto "direct action" arm of the Greens and their predecessors. One side focused on getting elected to parliament. The other arm focused on things like the blockade, protest rallies, chaining themselves to trees and/or equipment and so on.
In more recent times there has been a change of direction with the formation of issue-specific groups. Examples include HVEC and the similarly named Tamar Valley Environment Centre (TVEC). The latter was formed to oppose construction of a pulp mill at Bell Bay. By inference (and public comments) it also opposes the continued operation of TEMCO, Pacific Aluminium and various other factories at Bell Bay.
If you look at the big environmental battles of the past 30+ years then a disproportionate number of the big actions have taken place over Summer. One side will say this is due to the weather (it's hard to protest on a flooded river or a boggy forest during Winter). The other side will say that it's easier to get uni students and supporters from other states ("rent a crowd") if the protests are during Summer holidays.
Not associated with any of these is a more extreme element. They're the ones who put spikes in trees (intended to cause injury to forest workers) and who once planned to blow up (literally) a power station. To the best of my knowledge they never really had support from the non-terrorist inclined groups such as TWS or the Greens. They never did blow up the power station in question although tree spiking certainly has been done (mostly not in Tas however).
One step down from that and not really attributed to anyone specific are the lesser acts of vandalism and the hoaxes. Among those over the years include sabotaging / burning out logging equipment (very recently), the attempted blowing up of a railway bridge in the 1990's (ultimately a hoax) and the infamous addition of abrasives to the sump oil of construction machinery many years ago (which blows the engine). To be fair however, both sides have played this game to varying extent over the years.
People do have a right to express their opinion of course and I wouldn't want to prevent that. Much as I disagree with the Greens on many things, I do see their point over some things. They have a right to express their opinion provided that they do not harm others in doing so.
Julia
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Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists
Thanks gg and Smurf. I honestly found it hard to credit that that was a real advertisement.
I've long thought that there is an element of our society which, for reasons known only to themselves, want to grab at any opportunity to be socially disruptive about anything.
The "rent a crowd" bunch. They love being radical, going against the mainstream, and above all the opportunity to draw attention to themselves.
****ing tossers.
Thanks gg and Smurf. I honestly found it hard to credit that that was a real advertisement.
I've long thought that there is an element of our society which, for reasons known only to themselves, want to grab at any opportunity to be socially disruptive about anything.
The "rent a crowd" bunch. They love being radical, going against the mainstream, and above all the opportunity to draw attention to themselves.
****ing tossers.
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Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists
They have a Facebook page set up specifically for the January Justice campaign.
It's quite openly being mentioned that people "should" travel between states to participate in the various protests etc. Apparently there's something of a similar nature organised for East Gippsland (Vic) as well. There's also mention of a big party - not sure what that's about.
They have a Facebook page set up specifically for the January Justice campaign.
It's quite openly being mentioned that people "should" travel between states to participate in the various protests etc. Apparently there's something of a similar nature organised for East Gippsland (Vic) as well. There's also mention of a big party - not sure what that's about.
Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists
I don't really have anything to add other than it looks like a poster advertising an alt-rock band festival. Which probably makes sense in terms of their target audience.Thanks gg and Smurf. I honestly found it hard to credit that that was a real advertisement.
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Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists
Some people go to Falls for the 3 days. Some people go to BDO, Future Music, Soundwave etc for the day. Others would rather watch the cricket, car racing or whatever. And some would prefer a 9 day trip to Tas with some fun and games in the forests.
Seriously, they're basically marketing it as a summertime activity rather than the political movement that it is.
The Mercury (News Ltd) has picked up on it too I see. http://www.themercury.com.au/article/2012/12/29/369256_tasmania-news.html
What they are offering is sort of a competitor to such things.
Some people go to Falls for the 3 days. Some people go to BDO, Future Music, Soundwave etc for the day. Others would rather watch the cricket, car racing or whatever. And some would prefer a 9 day trip to Tas with some fun and games in the forests.
Seriously, they're basically marketing it as a summertime activity rather than the political movement that it is.
The Mercury (News Ltd) has picked up on it too I see. http://www.themercury.com.au/article/2012/12/29/369256_tasmania-news.html
explod
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Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists
We are thirty years old.
Actually 20 I think, so a celebration. I've only been active for 15 of them.
They have a Facebook page set up specifically for the January Justice campaign.
It's quite openly being mentioned that people "should" travel between states to participate in the various protests etc. Apparently there's something of a similar nature organised for East Gippsland (Vic) as well. There's also mention of a big party - not sure what that's about.
We are thirty years old.
Actually 20 I think, so a celebration. I've only been active for 15 of them.
Garpal Gumnut
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Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists
As a person I respect you explod.
But the Greens are finished.
gg
As a person I respect you explod.
But the Greens are finished.
gg
wayneL
VIVA LA LIBERTAD, CARAJO!
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Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists
If the aren't, Australia is finished.
If the aren't, Australia is finished.
Logique
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Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists
Federally, the Greens will find it difficult apres Bob Brown, and a conservative trend among global electors.
I disagree with most of the Greens federal platform. However at a local level, where policy isn't so doctrinaire, there are some excellent community based Greens reps. That 's certainly the case where I live.
I second that endorsement of Explod.
Federally, the Greens will find it difficult apres Bob Brown, and a conservative trend among global electors.
I disagree with most of the Greens federal platform. However at a local level, where policy isn't so doctrinaire, there are some excellent community based Greens reps. That 's certainly the case where I live.
Garpal Gumnut
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Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists
You were overtaken by the commies, like Lee Rhiannon, and have lost local support.
There is not a local Green I know with whom I would disagree on local matters.
Communists have buggered you, as they have generations before you.
The Greens are finished.
gg
You were overtaken by the commies, like Lee Rhiannon, and have lost local support.
There is not a local Green I know with whom I would disagree on local matters.
Communists have buggered you, as they have generations before you.
The Greens are finished.
gg
explod
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Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists
Unless you are in the Party you will not have any idea of what is going on.
The press only pick up on the bits they want for denigration.
I have stated this on the forums here recently so I am repeating myself.
But in short, there is full (I mean full) consultation of all members on the reshaping of the constitution and the ongoing formulation of policy. Try that with ms G and mr T. I can assure you all that it is moving a long way from just the environment. Education and welfare it right up there as the most important.
Anyhow, just nice to see you all just puddlin along on a Sundy evenin.
Unless you are in the Party you will not have any idea of what is going on.
The press only pick up on the bits they want for denigration.
I have stated this on the forums here recently so I am repeating myself.
But in short, there is full (I mean full) consultation of all members on the reshaping of the constitution and the ongoing formulation of policy. Try that with ms G and mr T. I can assure you all that it is moving a long way from just the environment. Education and welfare it right up there as the most important.
Anyhow, just nice to see you all just puddlin along on a Sundy evenin.
Garpal Gumnut
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Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists
Just trying to help you explod.
The ALP will cannibalise your base on a Watermelon advertising blitz.
And you don't deserve that.
And bugger "reshaping" , "formulation" , "constitution" etc., the commos have been doing the numbers for 100 years and will beat poor amateur local bastards like you hands down.
Just ask Lee Rhiannon, or whoever she was before she changed her name, and whatever party she belonged to in the '70's.
And this will just help the ALP so I'm not saying this out of self interest, only because I think you are a good person and need to watch these commos.
gg
Unless you are in the Party you will not have any idea of what is going on.
The press only pick up on the bits they want for denigration.
I have stated this on the forums here recently so I am repeating myself.
But in short, there is full (I mean full) consultation of all members on the reshaping of the constitution and the ongoing formulation of policy. Try that with ms G and mr T. I can assure you all that it is moving a long way from just the environment. Education and welfare it right up there as the most important.
Anyhow, just nice to see you all just puddlin along on a Sundy evenin.
Just trying to help you explod.
The ALP will cannibalise your base on a Watermelon advertising blitz.
And you don't deserve that.
And bugger "reshaping" , "formulation" , "constitution" etc., the commos have been doing the numbers for 100 years and will beat poor amateur local bastards like you hands down.
Just ask Lee Rhiannon, or whoever she was before she changed her name, and whatever party she belonged to in the '70's.
And this will just help the ALP so I'm not saying this out of self interest, only because I think you are a good person and need to watch these commos.
gg
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Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists
Never mind. The ABC loves you. They go to those two clowns Milne and Hanson-Young for their opinions on all things on the loony left.
Never mind. The ABC loves you. They go to those two clowns Milne and Hanson-Young for their opinions on all things on the loony left.
explod
explod
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Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists
Yes it is interesting, the press go for what they want (loaded by the right IMV), and not necessarily what the party wants to portray though.
I think the press is actually more for the Gillard camp. Instinctive probably as the guvmint pays the ABC's way.
Yes it is interesting, the press go for what they want (loaded by the right IMV), and not necessarily what the party wants to portray though.
I think the press is actually more for the Gillard camp. Instinctive probably as the guvmint pays the ABC's way.
Julia
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Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists
Federal Labor who sycophantically sucked up to them in order to take government.
Let's also attribute some blame to the media for failing to adequately question their spokespeople (is there such a politically correct word?) on what their real policies are, thus failing to inform the Australian electorate of their absolute socialist agenda.
+1. Let's not, however, fail to attribute some blame for their erstwhile prominence to
Federal Labor who sycophantically sucked up to them in order to take government.
Let's also attribute some blame to the media for failing to adequately question their spokespeople (is there such a politically correct word?) on what their real policies are, thus failing to inform the Australian electorate of their absolute socialist agenda.
wayneL
VIVA LA LIBERTAD, CARAJO!
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Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists
Such failures lead me to deduce that they (the media) do not wish to inform of their agenda.
Yeppers
Such failures lead me to deduce that they (the media) do not wish to inform of their agenda.
explod
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Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists
What do we define as a Socialist?
Or Julia, a Socialist Agenda?
As clearly distinct from Communism and/or the totalitarianism of Stalin for example. He was just a crook and any system is only as good as those in charge of it. In socialism, the concept of Marks and Engel's in their Manifesto, was "that it is for and by the people themselves"
I saw first hand the Socialist system working very well when I was over in Sweden studying, many years ago now (1976) so has probably changed a lot since then.
What do we define as a Socialist?
Or Julia, a Socialist Agenda?
As clearly distinct from Communism and/or the totalitarianism of Stalin for example. He was just a crook and any system is only as good as those in charge of it. In socialism, the concept of Marks and Engel's in their Manifesto, was "that it is for and by the people themselves"
I saw first hand the Socialist system working very well when I was over in Sweden studying, many years ago now (1976) so has probably changed a lot since then.
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Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists
2. Labor campaigns on a promise to fix it if elected, thus gaining preferences.
It's been that way for at least 30 years so not likely to change anytime soon. Politically, it works as long as whoever loses (due to scrapping of whatever the Greens want scrapped) isn't a politically important electorate and/or can be bought off via handouts.
1. Greens raise the issue.
2. Labor campaigns on a promise to fix it if elected, thus gaining preferences.
It's been that way for at least 30 years so not likely to change anytime soon. Politically, it works as long as whoever loses (due to scrapping of whatever the Greens want scrapped) isn't a politically important electorate and/or can be bought off via handouts.
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