The Australian Greens party

[Julia]

Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists

Anecdotally many young people I know are talking Greens for them and regardless of what many on these forums hope they are very conscious and concerned for the environment and the fact that many elders do not seem to care.

You are missing the underlying motive of the Greens which has nothing to do with the environment. It's about the redistribution of wealth and a regulated society which essentially eliminates the free market and freedom of choice for individuals in the quest for that great socialist heaven.

You are just made for The Greens, Explod, with your romantic but completely impractical notion of how the world could work.

 

[StumpyPhantom]

Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists

You are missing the underlying motive of the Greens which has nothing to do with the environment. It's about the redistribution of wealth and a regulated society which essentially eliminates the free market and freedom of choice for individuals in the quest for that great socialist heaven.

You are just made for The Greens, Explod, with your romantic but completely impractical notion of how the world could work.

Is that a "conscious" underlying motive? Do they discuss that in their party room meetings? Analogy (only one I can think of-sorry!) where Hitler exhorts Germanic racial superiority with the underlying motive being the elimination of the Jews.

 

[Smurf1976]

Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists

What you don't realise is that the world has moved on since your pink shirt, eyebrow raising dabble into the gay world. Gays are fully capable of looking after their own interests, and the idea of do-gooders like you and craft trying to cocoon them from the nasty homophobic world is very condescending.

The entire purpose of a public political rally or meeting of that sort is to (1) produce a show of strength for the media etc and (2) bring like minds together for the "real" meeting (for the 1 - 2% who will be interested) which takes place sometime later.

I chose not to encourage or be part of a show of strength against homosexuality when the issue in question was unrelated. I could have easily ignored it as most would, but chose to encourage people to question their prejudices and leave anyone's private life right out of it.

My decision to do so came from having been to quite a few development versus conservation type meetings previously, as well as other discussion, and becoming fed up with hearing the "gay" argument raised. I was, to be blunt, simply fed up with people assuming that because I was expressing a pro-development view, that I would also be morally conservative.

I'm very sure that Bob, or gays in general, don't need protecting from homophobia. I do however have a right to express support for one cause, without also expressing support for an unrelated issue that many chose to attach to it by virtue of their own prejudices.

As for the pink shirts, well that's a pretty tame way of dropping the hint I thought. It's not as though all, or even most, people who dress like that are gay. But in a room full of blokes arguing the virtues of logging and/or damming the lot it was sufficient.

The same could be said of those who simply went bush walking during some of these debates. Someone sees someone dressed like that, and automatically assumes they hold a certain view. Not a particularly good situation if you find that just about everyone else in a small town disagrees. This situation was well known at the time.

In short, just because I am of the opinion that hydro is a more sustainable power source than coal and that building with timber is environmentally better than building with steel does not mean that I am also against gays, abortion or the opening of shops after 12 o'clock on Saturday (all of which were issues around the same time).

Anyway, I think the Green side does see the humor in the 40 year environment versus development debate better than their opponents. Gotta love TWS putting up Christmas lights in the Styx a few years ago - I know they saw the irony but I suspect the other side missed it completely and probably still does.

 

[Smurf1976]

Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists

Of course, never too sure of the language of you younger ones.

I do know that most of the immigrants that have come over the last 60 years have been hard working and the children educated to many of the higher positions of technology and medicine.

Our higher faculty hospitals are full of them and is one of the reasons we lead the world at research level.

It's not about the virtues of immigrants as individuals but about the absolute incompatibility between "population growth" and "sustainability".

 

[Calliope]

Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists

I chose not to encourage or be part of a show of strength against homosexuality when the issue in question was unrelated. I could have easily ignored it as most would, but chose to encourage people to question their prejudices and leave anyone's private life right out of it.

Easily ignored what? I'm not interested in your excuses. Next time just don't use me as an excuse for your moralising.

I have a brother who incidentally is gay. For the past week or so he and his partner have been staying with me. When I showed them your snide attack on me for making an innocuous comment, and your pink shirt episode, they were highly amused. One of them said '"well Tasmania is a backwater."

 

[Macquack]

Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists

I have a brother who incidentally is gay.

You're not Bob Katter are you, Calliope?

 

[Glen48]

Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists

‘Dumb Law’ Blocking Promising New Fuel Source

A new technology that could revolutionize the fuel industry is being curtailed by a federal regulation that Forbes magazine calls a “dumb law.”

At issue is the production of ethanol, which is added to gasoline purportedly to reduce pollution and reduce America’s reliance on foreign oil.

This year Americans will use 14 billion gallons of ethanol, made from 5 billion bushels of corn ”” one third of the total U.S. crop ”” grown on 33 million acres of farmland. And since 2005, when Congress required that ethanol be added to gasoline, U.S. corn prices have tripled, according to Forbes, contributing to higher food prices across the board.

The Dallas-based chemicals company Celanese has developed the technology to produce ethanol by tearing apart and recombining hydrocarbons found in America’s plentiful supplies of natural gas and coal.

“The problem isn’t science. It’s Washington,” Forbes observes. “Thanks to the 2007 Renewable Fuel Standard (RFS) law, gasoline refiners are mandated to blend so much plant-based or renewable ethanol into the gas supply that it prevents Celanese or any other fossil-fuel-based ethanols from even competing for the market.”

Now 13 congressmen led by Pete Olson, whose Houston-area district is home to Celanese’s largest plant, have introduced a bill allowing ethanol made from natural gas to substitute for some corn-based ethanol mandated by the RFS law.

“We would prefer not to have the RFS at all,” an Olson spokesperson told Forbes, “but this is a step in the right direction.”

Meanwhile Celanese is building a plant in Texas designed to produce less than 6 million gallons of ethanol a year. The company is also building a plant capable of producing 80 million gallons a year ”” in Nanjing, China.

 

[So_Cynical]

Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists

The rest of us who rely on GDP growth to earn money and who are having trouble paying bills don't seem too Green

Oh you mean the people who don't have a clue?

 

[Calliope]

Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists

You're not Bob Katter are you, Calliope?

Typical inane Macquack post.

 

[wayneL]

Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists

Oh you mean the people who don't have a clue?

So what's worse SC? People who don't have a clue, or the holier than thou schmucks who preach it and don't live it; like basilio, Al Bore. James Hansen etc etc etc et al.

Just like most pompous and hypocritical Greens.

 

[Tink]

Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists

After the 2009 Victorian Bushfires, I didnt see one Green member come out and make a comment
Quiet for quite a while.

Their policies are too dangerous in every direction.

 

[joea]

Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists

I think that as the dust settles in a few months Milne will finally prove to be the woman up to the real task of today's tough political scene.

Only time will tell, second guessing rubbish will not.

No doubt if she is given (100 days like Newman), we may see what she has got.
No doubt she will require at least 10 of those days to sort out Sarah-Hanson-Young.

There is one thing that I am sure about, and that is I will not be listening to any media exposure she may get. She sound like a "jet engine with a squeaky bearing."

joea

 

[joea]

Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists

‘Dumb Law’ Blocking Promising New Fuel Source

A new technology that could revolutionize the fuel industry is being curtailed by a federal regulation that Forbes magazine calls a “dumb law.”

At issue is the production of ethanol, which is added to gasoline purportedly to reduce pollution and reduce America’s reliance on foreign oil.

When one starts to discuss Ethanol, a number of issues have to be resolved.
1 Energy source. The plant can be operated by Low Pressure Steam (14psi), so if linked to a primary source such as a sugar mill it can use exhaust steam.
If it is not linked in such a way, it is 1 step forward and 2 backwards in the energy cycle.

2 The dunder produced has be dealt with and can be treated to produce a fertilizer.

3 Depending on the source of fuel and primary product, the transport costs of primary product, dunder and final product have to be evaluated. So when you have a "carbon tax", which has a moving target of costs, you would be a very brave person to proceed with ethanol production.
In other words what you are trying to achieve in the project, will be lost in the supply chain.

4. The percentage blend in say fuel, has to be associated with vehicles that have been designed to use that blend. So a 20% blend needs specific parts produced that come into contact with the blend. If you go to a low percentage blend, once again you are defeating the purpose of what you set out to achieve.

5 The size of the plant has to be evaluated. So as you increase the size of the plant to make it become viable, you run out of the primary source.
Anyway that what we found when we evaluated the process to add to the sugar mill in which I had a career. But we did not have the results of the new technology from USA at that point in time.
The american's have come up with a new 'enzyme" technology that improves the output of the process. So that is a positive point for ethanol.

The big unknown for ethanol in Australia is Labor's Carbon Tax. It would be like trying to hit a moving target with an unknown direction.
joea

 

[Calliope]

Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists

To look at Milne's grim visage you might think she doesn't have a sense of humour. Wrong!!!

Senator Milne said Labor had boxed itself in to delivering a budget surplus and blamed the Opposition Leader, Tony Abbott, for painting Ms Gillard as a liar.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/polit...it-of-brown-20120415-1x1n5.html#ixzz1s9eCRTnm

 

[Glen48]

Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists

Joea, the thing that is over looked is the cost to produce the crop, fuel etc to get the seeds there , planting , harvesting, transport and producing I am sure the cost is not worth it but is a good feeling for the greens.

 

[joea]

Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists

Joea, the thing that is over looked is the cost to produce the crop, fuel etc to get the seeds there , planting , harvesting, transport and producing I am sure the cost is not worth it but is a good feeling for the greens.

Glen48
When you look at the sugar industry, molasses and bagasse are by products.
The Low Pressure steam can be made available by economies is the prime movers.
But like you say anything that is connected to diesel. Well we have a problem balancing the piggy bank.
I do not know if the voters fully understand, that in Queensland the mills could provide a fair amount of the extra electricity in the crushing period(which is through winter), but the electricity "big wigs" would not pay an acceptable price to make the installations viable.
The sugar industry exports power to control its excess bagasse stocks.
joea ....over and out.

 

[joea]

Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists

When the media edits articles, some make available a comment area.
As i read articles of interest, I also check some of the comments to gauge which way the wind is blowing.
It is interesting to note that Milne is under attack from some Green voters already.

I think there will be interesting times ahead.

Meanwhile with the Green Leader handover taking all the news, the worlds famous treasurer is busy compiling the budget with no fan fair what so ever.
joea

 

[Calliope]

Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists

On 3 February The Australian with much fanfare, proclaimed Bob Brown to be the most influential person in Canberra.

From top rooster to feather duster in 10 weeks.

Milne, of course did not make the top 50. Nor would she now.

 

[notting]

Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists

Will definitely go the way of the democrats, now.
Rightly or wrongly.
Brown had a very clear vision, and intellect. I don't think there is much in his wake!
Climate change will become more mainstream and integrated into major party policies as they attempt to manage it
Looks like we will be putting up with Laurel and Hardy with a massive majority for at least 3 years.

 

[moXJO]

Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists

Noticed Christine Milne having a go at our involvement in Afghanistan. So we can take refugees no sweat, but God forbid we try and help to fix their country. Gutless greens

Afghanistan's ambassador in Canberra, Nasir Andisha, also strongly rejected Senator Milne's description of the coalition's involvement, saying progress on education alone was a remarkable turnaround.

"We had zero girls going to school in 2001 and now we have almost three million girls going to school," he said. "Two million girls, educated women, will be an army enough to fight the Taliban, insurgents and extremists."

Australian Hazara Federation spokesman Hassan Ghulam likened life in Afghanistan before 2001, when the US-led coalition invaded, to Year Zero, a reference to Pol Pot's "killing fields" reign in Cambodia.

"Life was horrible, there were no human rights, there was no government - they (the Taliban) closed all the schools, there were no hospitals, there was no economy," Mr Ghulam said.

"They were executing people, displacing people without any concerns for their basic rights.

"They had no economic plan, hospitals collapsed due to lack of medicine and doctors. It was chaos."