The Australian Greens party

[explod]

Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists

As a former ALP member I got to know dear Mr Newnham. He is a very right wing upstart who has managed to marginalise a lot of grass roots, particularly rural ALP members, and is one of the reasons many conservative ALP members over the last five years left and joined the Greens.

He is not well liked throughout the ALP and is seen as a self interested opportunist. I would pay scant attention to his take.

I have recently noted growing support among the very young and older people for the Greens in this very conservative (Liberal) Mornington Peninsula area. Remember meetings where half a dozen would turn up at the most, now we see up to fifty and we are not in election mode. That never happened down here for the ALP, maybe 25 just prior to an election. The Greens are becoming eager and active
The noise about the Greens is about the fear that they are indeed gaining a grip on the political landscape in Australia and all the foot stamping (and a lot of it on ASF) is not going to change that. The ALP and the Liberals have lost the knack of giving people a vision and lead on the changes that are going to be needed in this very fast changing world.

And having worked for many years on polling booths and as a scruitineer I know it would go very much against the grain, regardless of the party ticket, for a Liberal to give labor second preference and vice versa ALP to preference a Lib.

The nature of political allegiance in many cases goes back generations.

But anyway, wish ya all luck.

 

[Smurf1976]

Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists

This deal tells you everything about the Greens. Having relentlessly attacked the logging industry in Tasmania, two Greens now pick up the Triabunna mill - for $6M less than what somebody else was prepared to pay.

Suddenly, the evil mill site is now suitable for '..making way for a wine and tourism development at the prime coastal site, which has a deep harbour suitable for cruise ships..'

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...s-native-forests/story-fn59niix-1226094217303
Logging off: mill deal saves native forests
Self-made multi-millionaires Jan Cameron and Graeme Wood yesterday bought the Triabunna native forest woodchip export mill on Tasmania's east coast from timber giant Gunns for $10 million.

The demise of the Tasmanian paper manufacturing industry, once a world leader, says it all in terms of what the Greens are really about.

Established in 1938, Burnie Mill was the first mill in the world to manufacture high quality paper using eucalypt pulp. The mill was a huge success, and by the 1970's was running 10 production lines employing literally a quarter of the entire population of Burnie. Meanwhile a second plant had been establised at Wesley Vale. At that time and well into the 1980's the mill continued to be a world leader technically.

By the late 1980's it was readily apparent that the original pulping equipment installed at Burnie was near the end of its useful life. In adddition, it was the direct cause of the infamous water and air pollution for which Burnie was well known.

And so the company announced its grand plan. Build a brand new, state of the art pulp production facility at Wesley Vale alongside the paper mill which had been built there in the 70's. Once built, the new pulp mill would supply pulp to both paper mills (Burnie and Wesley Vale) and enable further development of paper manufacturing at Burnie through use of the space then occupied by pulping operations. Wesley Vale's paper production could also then be modernised in due course.

To cut a long story short, Christine Milne got involved and the new pulp mill at Wesley Vale was never built. Due to that, pulping at Burnie continued far longer than it otherwise would, at great cost environmentally, until the late 1990's at which point it had become simply impractical to continue (uneconomic operation, machinery worn out etc).

Then in 2010 the end finally came. Paper production, which had been running on imported pulp, finally ceased at both Burnie and Wesley Vale and the mills will ultimately be demolished (or at best might be used as a warehouse or something like that). A once nationally important industry gone forever, to be replaced with imports. And of course, no prizes for guessing that North-West Tasmania is an unemployment hot spot...

Amidst all that was the massive expansion of woodchipping. I'm no fan of that industry (a point on which I'll agree with the Greens), but the reasons for that expansion need to be understood. The industry was focused on paper and timber for construction. The state once had 4 pulp mills feeding 3 paper mills (running a total of 14 production lines) and countless sawmills which provided massive employment using relatively modest amounts of wood.

Faced with no ability to usefully invest in ongoing paper production, the focus shifted to simply selling wood to overseas mills. But just selling raw wood doesn't bring in a lot of money or employ too many people, hence the massive expansion of logging and destruction of forests - a high volume, low margin strategy. And now that too has become unviable due partly to the Greens and partly because it simply isn't a viable business strategy in the long term now that local manufacturing is gone.

Ultimately, we have swapped a world leading paper manufacturing industry for a simple logging operation and then nothing. The saw mills are nearly all gone. The only paper mill still in operation is the newsprint mill which processes pine. The forests were trashed for low returns as a result, and now we're left with nothing.

Simply continuing with local manufacturing would have been a much better outcome both economically and environmentally. It wasn't what the Greens or Labor wanted however...

 

[Calliope]

Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists

The noise about the Greens is about the fear that they are indeed gaining a grip on the political landscape in Australia and all the foot stamping (and a lot of it on ASF) is not going to change that. The ALP and the Liberals have lost the knack of giving people a vision and lead on the changes that are going to be needed in this very fast changing world.

There is no greater enemy to the Australian economy than your party, the Greens. It boggles the mind that anyone with one iota of intelligence cold support a policy hell-bent on destroying Australia's fossil fuel industry. Without it we would be another Greece. Try to get your head around this argument, put by Greg Sheridan in The Australian.

If ever there were a single country in the entire world spectacularly unsuited to be the sole imposer of a vast, unprecedented carbon tax, which no other country in the world is remotely duplicating, it is Australia.

Isolated from our strategic friends, far distant from our biggest markets, a member of no natural trading bloc or customs union, we have just one serious, competitive advantage in the global economy.

That is the abundance of our fossil fuel endowments. If ever there were a nation well advised to move slowly and carefully on policies to cut greenhouse gas emissions, we are it.

If you can refute this argument be my guest. In my opinion these economic illiterates, Brown and Milne are a disgrace. They know as well as you should, that the technology doesn't exist that could replace fossil fuels by renewable energy economically.

 

[Julia]

Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists

If you can refute this argument be my guest. In my opinion these economic illiterates, Brown and Milne are a disgrace. They know as well as you should, that the technology doesn't exist that could replace fossil fuels by renewable energy economically.

I completely agree. The media are totally failing us by not insisting on answers from Brown and Milne about exactly where baseload power would come from if coal fired sources were eliminated. They are being allowed to get away with airy fairy assertions like "oh, there's huge scope for renewables", whereupon the journalist smiles happily and seems to consider his/her job done. Pathetic.

 

[sails]

Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists

I completely agree. The media are totally failing us by not insisting on answers from Brown and Milne about exactly where baseload power would come from if coal fired sources were eliminated. They are being allowed to get away with airy fairy assertions like "oh, there's huge scope for renewables", whereupon the journalist smiles happily and seems to consider his/her job done. Pathetic.

I think Brown and co are very selective in choosing the media to whom they will speak. They don't want these hard questions, so it's easier to ignore the ones who might ask hard questions.

It seems that none of them (including ALP MPs) will touch Andrew Bolt's TV show - they seem too scared of being asked some of these questions that desperately need answers.

 

[springhill]

Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists

How's this for a few coconuts short of a hawaiian party?

http://www.greenleft.org.au/node/48173

The green left? How much further left can they go?

My favourite quote is 'Without Green Left Weekly, freedom of press and public truth-telling in Australia would be gravely ill.' John Pilger.

 

[RandR]

Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists

I completely agree. The media are totally failing us by not insisting on answers from Brown and Milne about exactly where baseload power would come from if coal fired sources were eliminated. They are being allowed to get away with airy fairy assertions like "oh, there's huge scope for renewables", whereupon the journalist smiles happily and seems to consider his/her job done. Pathetic.

You mean this plan ?

http://www.zerocarbonplan.org/

Here is a transcript of Liberal Party MP malcolm turnbull endorsing the plan ...

http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2010/s2953913.htm

Mr Turnbull says a new report shows how the technology exists to move Australia into a zero-carbon future but there needs to be public and political will to put it into action.

In fact, Bob Carr and Malcolm Turnbull both spoke at the launch of this plan ... there not greens ...

I bolded the bit above because I think when he talks about public and political will, what he really means specifically is whether or not people are content with paying for it.

The idea of a non fossil based energy source appeals to the vast majority of people, but the idea of paying for it, does not.

 

[trainspotter]

Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists

We all will be paying for "it" in the long run if we don't do something. The carbon tax money should not be compensating the proletariat or the business's who ultimately discharge the stuff. Every cent should be invested in renewable energy resources.

 

[sails]

Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists

...Here is a transcript of Liberal Party MP malcolm turnbull endorsing the plan ...

http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2010/s2953913.htm...

This is interesting from the above link:

TONY JONES: Well the Federal Government is believed to be finalising its climate policy for release in the immediate future.

RandR, that interview is dated the 14/07/2010 which was only weeks before the federal election in August. That sounds like Gillard had every intention of bringing this carbon tax in which, if so, makes her famous carbon tax lie a very deliberate lie.

Turnbull also mentions the purchase of "offsets". Obviously banks are going to do well out of this and I guess explains Turnbull's stance on it.

How on earth does purchasing offsets or abatements from other countries actually reduce the co2 in the earth's atmosphere?

 

[Smurf1976]

Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists

The green left? How much further left can they go

This mob have been around for a long time now. They're nothing new.

Other associated organisations and names used include:

Democratic Socialist Party (DSP)

S11 (September 11, a term used well before 2001 and presumably (?) unrelated to the events of that date)

M1 (May 1)

Perhaps the most successful activity of the group thus far is to cover every electrical box, rubbish bin, light pole and other surface around capital city centres with S11 / M1 posters. The posters are paper and applied using glue, thus making them virtually impossible to remove. Councils and other authorities used to spend a small fortune dealing with this group back in the 1990's due to this activity.

 

[Julia]

Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists

I think Brown and co are very selective in choosing the media to whom they will speak. They don't want these hard questions, so it's easier to ignore the ones who might ask hard questions.

It seems that none of them (including ALP MPs) will touch Andrew Bolt's TV show - they seem too scared of being asked some of these questions that desperately need answers.

Yep, correct, sails. I'm amused at Ms Gillard labelling some media reporting as "crap" (she is using language to match her shrewish tone of voice and it does not at all become her), and Wayne Swan accusing some of the print media as having unreasonable bias.

I note he has never so castigated the ABC, particularly Radio National, for its oh so obvious Left bias.
That must be, um, 'different'.

They are so pathetic. If the Murdoch press were to be lauding their ideas, would we be hearing claims of bias? I don't think so.
Again, the government are giving the electorate far too little credit for basic intelligence and comprehension of their shoddy thinking.

 

[drsmith]

Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists

Bob Brown won't be happy when he picks up The Australian today.

The Clean Energy Finance Corporation will be a lender of last resort to every otherwise financially untenable green scheme Brown and his cronies decide to fund.

Neither will Julia Gillard, but there's too much material in that article to quote.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...ng-of-labors-end/story-e6frgd0x-1226095563597

 

[Logique]

Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists

Now they're blockading the stores.

http://www.southcoastregister.com.au/news/local/news/general/store-blockaded/2236500.aspx
Store blockaded
25 Jul, 2011
"Conservationists blocked Nowra’s Harvey Norman store on Saturday morning as they launched a campaign to stop the retailer using native forests to make furniture.
Barricades were put in front of the main entrance, with wires connected to a lamp post in the car park from which an activist was suspended......However the protest has been condemned by the Australian Forest Products Association, which said the protestors ignored the facts of Australia’s timber industry. “If these groups were real environmentalists, they would be promoting the use of Australia’s forests and our world’s best practice scientific management,” said AFPA spokesperson Allan Hansard.."

 

[Logique]

Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists

Dissent is not tolerated.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...ced-over-boycott/story-fn59niix-1226100912806 Greens red-faced over boycott - Leo Shanahan, From: The Australian July 25, 2011

AN attempt by Greens on the Sydney City Council to boycott businesses supporting an anti-carbon-tax campaign has backfired. Greens councillor Chris Harris was left red-faced after it emerged the council was itself a member of a business chamber he wanted to boycott.......But it has been revealed that the council itself is a member of the NSW Business Chamber, a member of the anti-carbon-tax alliance.

The NSW Business Chamber labelled the move by the Greens as "political intimidation".

 

[Bigukraine]

Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists

Dissent is not tolerated.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...ced-over-boycott/story-fn59niix-1226100912806 Greens red-faced over boycott - Leo Shanahan, From: The Australian July 25, 2011

AN attempt by Greens on the Sydney City Council to boycott businesses supporting an anti-carbon-tax campaign has backfired. Greens councillor Chris Harris was left red-faced after it emerged the council was itself a member of a business chamber he wanted to boycott.......But it has been revealed that the council itself is a member of the NSW Business Chamber, a member of the anti-carbon-tax alliance.

The NSW Business Chamber labelled the move by the Greens as "political intimidation".

typical put mouth in gear and left brain in neutral.......:bonk::bonk:

 

[drsmith]

Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists

Dear Mr Ferguson,

If you don't like your bed partners, either kick them out or crawl out yourselves.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...power-generation/story-fn59niix-1226117058621

 

[mexican]

Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5f2RMc4e5s

 

[wayneL]

Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5f2RMc4e5s

ROTFL!

 

[Julia]

Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists

ROTFL!

+1.

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

The Greens

What do they stand for?

Are they Watermelon, red on the inside , green on the outer.

What is their short term agenda?

What is their long term agenda?

I have only known one green and she was a decent person

I am not impressed by their agenda as portrayed in the left (ABC, The Age) and the right (Australian) media.

Who are they, and what do they stand for?

gg