The Abbott Government

[noco]

Just another reminder how the Coalition MPs were rorting the system eh.

Has anyone checked to see if Slipper billed his wedding to tax payers? Maybe that's why Coalition MPs think weddings are official business since their all soooooo important.

Hey Gina, when's the next wedding??

They tell me Simon Crean claimed expenses to fly to Bob Hawkes 80th birthday.

Now I wonder why the lefties ain't talking about that?

 

[sydboy007]

They tell me Simon Crean claimed expenses to fly to Bob Hawkes 80th birthday.

Now I wonder why the lefties ain't talking about that?

I think we're sick of all politicians taking advantage of us.

It's not a party issue, it's the general sense of entitlement they have, which probably explains why we have so much middle class welfare as they don't actually see it as welfare but as a basic right for a handout.

 

[drsmith]

It's not a party issue, it's the general sense of entitlement they have, which probably explains why we have so much middle class welfare as they don't actually see it as welfare but as a basic right for a handout.

This was never a partisan issue from the start despite partisan frothing such as this,

It's more the double standards that gets me. The witch hunt of Slipper and Thompson and then the I've paid the money back so it's OK.

In focusing specifically on the government, Fairfax too was very biased in it's initial coverage.

 

[Knobby22]

I think we're sick of all politicians taking advantage of us.

It's not a party issue, it's the general sense of entitlement they have, which probably explains why we have so much middle class welfare as they don't actually see it as welfare but as a basic right for a handout.

Yes, its not as if they have any special skills and it's not as if they aren't paid well.

- - - Updated - - -

This was never a partisan issue from the start despite partisan frothing such as this,

In focusing specifically on the government, Fairfax too was very biased in it's initial coverage.

It was News that broke the story. What about the Libs who attacked Slipper (an ex Lib) and then do it themselves?? I think we know the word for that.

 

[basilio]

I'm not impressed with the facts that many politicians have been taking advantage of the truckholes in the various entitlements they can claim. Couple of thoughts however.

1) I think you will find The Greens, Nick Xenophon and probably Rob Oakshott, Andrew Wilkie and Tony Windsor have the least number of dodgy claims. In fact the most sensible comments in the discussion have come from Nick who suggested that pollies should have to briefly outline the reason for travel and if the trip was under 2 hours go economy rather than business class.

2) I suggest these politicians have a more public spirited approach to their time in politics. They didn't seem to be in there for the bickies and appear relatively content with the financial renumeration offered by the position.

3) The mainstream politicians would feel like poor cousins against business contemporaries. Essentially business is now paying many multiples of the salaries offered to pollies.

4) Given the relatively poor wages earned by the mainstream politicians the temptation to crib/dissemble on their expenses to keep up with their business cousins would be very big. With almost no reason not to crib many have dug deep. After all you would have to be "a Green loser or batty idealist" not to help yourself wouldn't you ?

Couple of ways out ? Check out Nick Xenophens ideas. His last point was very astute. If the politicians do make a mistake they have to pay back double the amount. (At present any claims can be made and if the politician thinks there is an error (ie a journalist comes looking ) he/she can repay the sum with no other consequences. The Nick Minchin protocol)

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/11/minchin-protocol-expenses-tony-abbott
http://www.independentaustralia.net...w-finance-defied-protocol-to-crucify-slipper/

 

[Julia]

I agree entirely about Nick Xenophon's sensible suggestions. He's probably one of the very few politicians who can claim integrity across most matters.

However, the two main parties won't be showing any enthusiasm for Sen. Xenophon's ideas. Rather, they'll mutually weather this minor storm, wait for it all to die down, and then be back to milking the taxpayer for every last dollar, thus missing a good opportunity to improve their standing in the collective view of the electorate.

 

[sydboy007]

Hockey just gave a cringe worth interview on CNBC. If this is the economic management credentials of the Abbott Govt then we're in very very deep doo doo.

http://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2013/10/in-new-york-hockey-defends-housing-bubble

Hockey Ponzinomics is based on the following essential ingreedients (sic):

* Housing is an "asset class" not for shelter - CHECK

* prop up demand - CHECK (high immigration)

* restrict supply - CHECK (slow supply to market)

* encourage over investment and capitalisation of housing stock - CHECK CHECK CHECK

Then you put some lipstick on the pig of a policy and "rising house prices in Australia help to make some of the more marginal new housing developments affordable and realistic and deliverable. And in turn, that increase in supply helps to manage the market. So, Australia is a long way from a bubble…"

All those property developers must love the way Hockey Ponzinomics allows them to "manage the market."

Tony's no better with his statement from last month “Don’t forget … if housing prices go up, sure that makes it harder to get into the market, but it also means that everyone who is in the market has a more valuable asset”.

So younger Gen X and those that come after, the Great Aussie Dream is all about Asset values and keeping the bubble inflated. Affordability and the right to reasonably priced shelter is no longer a consideration for Federal Government Housing policy, not that they seem to actually have a policy.

How they justify this policy when our excessive house prices already eat up too much of our income - even with some of the lowest mortgage interest rates in the history of the country!!! Not a lot of income left for the non discretionary sectors. Productive investment to earn us export income is crimped, high rents also massively reduce our international competitiveness.

 

[Knobby22]

Yes, it's not nice Sydboy. It's sad that first home buyers are seriously being priced out of the market now. So much so, that there percentage of loans is at new lows. Looks like the housing dream is dead for Gen Z, they will all have to be renters as what occurs in Europe.

Labor brought in the stupid rule that you could borrow within tour super to buy houses and relaxed the rules on the Chinese. I was hoping that the coalition would overturn them. No such luck.

 

[sydboy007]

I'm not impressed with the facts that many politicians have been taking advantage of the truckholes in the various entitlements they can claim. Couple of thoughts however.

3) The mainstream politicians would feel like poor cousins against business contemporaries. Essentially business is now paying many multiples of the salaries offered to pollies.

4) Given the relatively poor wages earned by the mainstream politicians the temptation to crib/dissemble on their expenses to keep up with their business cousins would be very big. With almost no reason not to crib many have dug deep. After all you would have to be "a Green loser or batty idealist" not to help yourself wouldn't you ?

Um, if you consider a basic wage of ~$200K as a relatively poor wage then I can understand why the pollies are ripping us off as much as they can.

Once you are a minister or shadow minister or a anything really you income goes up further. They still get their overseas study trip and quite a few other benefits as well. No cost to get to and from work either.

Can't remember if it was Oakshott or Windsor but they didn't think to claim their charity work against tax payers like Abbott. After seeing Abbott defend his claims I've lost a lot of the respect i had for him as an individual outside politics. Seems he's views it as "work". So what I viewed as showing a sense of charity from the man seems to be at least partly about grabbing votes.

As the table below shows a single income 2 child political family already has an income better than 80% of households, and when view as a single income earner they are in the top 3-5%.

 

[basilio]

$200k is a decent wage . My point of comparison however was against the comparable businessmen who politicians mix with in most cases would be on far better packages.

I also suggest that many Coalition members would have come from higher paid work situations and thus feel entitled to much more than they are given.

I don't have a problem paying a good wage to effective and honest politicians. And frankly I think the stress and challenges of Cabinet positions and PM are not recompensed by the salaries. But the practice of simply allowing politicians to claim whatever they want with little effective monitoring is not good practice.

And it looks really cheap and opportunistic.

 

[drsmith]

Carbon tax repeal to be the first bill considered by the new parliament,

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-10-15/abbott-draft-carbon-tax-repeal/5023826

It was News that broke the story. What about the Libs who attacked Slipper (an ex Lib) and then do it themselves?? I think we know the word for that.

Regardless of who broke the story, Fairfax was biased by the way it concentrated on Coalition politicians. That doesn't bother me by the way. As we all know, News is biased the other way.

With regard to your comment on Peter Slipper, all that needs to be said is Cabcharge and Suburb-to-suburb. Anyone attacking the coalition from behind him will be about as successful as Julia Gillard ultimately was.

 

[Julia]

$200k is a decent wage . My point of comparison however was against the comparable businessmen who politicians mix with in most cases would be on far better packages.

I also suggest that many Coalition members would have come from higher paid work situations and thus feel entitled to much more than they are given.

Not to at all defend any inappropriate claiming by politicians, but if you imagine people employed across business don't access massive tax free entitlements, often on the most flimsy of bases, you're dreaming.

 

[sydboy007]

$200k is a decent wage . My point of comparison however was against the comparable businessmen who politicians mix with in most cases would be on far better packages.

I also suggest that many Coalition members would have come from higher paid work situations and thus feel entitled to much more than they are given.

I don't have a problem paying a good wage to effective and honest politicians. And frankly I think the stress and challenges of Cabinet positions and PM are not recompensed by the salaries. But the practice of simply allowing politicians to claim whatever they want with little effective monitoring is not good practice.

And it looks really cheap and opportunistic.

Our politicans are some of the highest paid in the world, especially when you look at how many they people are in their electorates.

The Australian PM earns more than the US President, though Singapore's PM takes the cake with around a $3M wage plus benefits, oh and they don't have issues with hiring his wife to run their version of the Future Fund (Temasek)

As for CEO pay and performance, time and again studies show there is no statistical correlation between pay and performance.

Australian politicians earn over 2.5 times the average wage, nearly 4 times to median wage, and are in the top ~3% of income earners in the country. By any measure they are more than well compensated for their work.

 

[wayneL]

Our politicans are some of the highest paid in the world, especially when you look at how many they people are in their electorates.

The Australian PM earns more than the US President, though Singapore's PM takes the cake with around a $3M wage plus benefits, oh and they don't have issues with hiring his wife to run their version of the Future Fund (Temasek)

As for CEO pay and performance, time and again studies show there is no statistical correlation between pay and performance.

Australian politicians earn over 2.5 times the average wage, nearly 4 times to median wage, and are in the top ~3% of income earners in the country. By any measure they are more than well compensated for their work.

...and if you think we have rubbish politicians now, imagine if the pay was crap.

 

[noco]

You know this pollie expenses discussion has been hammered now for over a week by the media and all the political parties.

The one thing Abbott has not learned yet is how to divert attention.

The Labor Party were masters at it.

 

[sydboy007]

You know this pollie expenses discussion has been hammered now for over a week by the media and all the political parties.

The one thing Abbott has not learned yet is how to divert attention.

The Labor Party were masters at it.

I thought Joe's Hockey Ponzinomics talk show appearance in NYC was a great diversionary tactic. Red flag meet property specufestors.

 

[noco]

I thought Joe's Hockey Ponzinomics talk show appearance in NYC was a great diversionary tactic. Red flag meet property specufestors.

But it received little attention really.

If it had been Swan it would have blasted by the media for days after.

 

[sydboy007]

But it received little attention really.

If it had been Swan it would have blasted by the media for days after.

Oh, I'm sure uncle Rupert would have ensure Hockey Ponzinomics was well known in Australia if it had been a Fox News interview.

I dare say Joe will have some explaining to do when he gets back as to why he was consorting with the enemy in NYC.

If his views on housing are an insight into his level of economic aptitude then we're stuffed.

Suppose I shouldn't be surprised when this is the party that endorses oligopolies and seems to think they're perfect for Australia (Andrew Robb take a bow)

 

[sydboy007]

I hope this isn't true

http://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2013/10/is-abbott-about-to-securitise-hecs-debts/

You'd definitely have to offer a pretty big discount to book value of the loans if the interest rate is maintained at CPI.

Looks like we'll head for a Liberal nirvana of students leaving Uni with $100K of loans like in the USA

 

[wayneL]

If his views on housing are an insight into his level of economic aptitude then we're stuffed.

Of course we're stuffed, but the question is how stuffed to you want to be? Thankfully, we're less stuffed now than we would have been.