The Abbott Government

Whiskers · 12 October 2013

Julia said:
And here you demonstrate what you have in common with other loyal Labor supporters: the total myth that all that was actually wrong with Labor was their internal leadership squabbling. From the moment the carbon tax was introduced, and soon after Rudd dismantled the successful Pacific Solution, the majority of the electorate was angry.

For the rest of your remarks, drsmith has already more than adequately expressed what I'd have said.

Julia, you know I'm more Nat than anything else.

As for dr, are you misconstruing comments just to flood the thread with provocatively silly comments... or did you genuinely interpret that from my post?

How about the context... that the rest of the sentence so clearly provided.

I think you will find a lot of the electorate could live with the boats and carbon tax, with stable Labor leadership, if they feel the alternative is going to be worse, as in morphing into a big L Lib government again.

For someone who often displays pedantic language tendencies... this is a pretty big violation of the formal rules of English literature.

The conditional is possible in the future tense:
"I will need to see a doctor tomorrow If the flu gets worse.

drsmith · 12 October 2013

Whiskers said:
The higher moral and credibility ground would be for Abbott to say you got the system that Rudd back flipped too, to work better.

I wish there was an applause icon.

Finally, you give TA at least a little credit.

As for the prospect of an early election, you can put your money where your "worries" are and get good odds. Sportsbet is currently paying 4 to 1 on an election in 2014 and 5 to 1 in 2015 and that's only on the timing of the election, not the outcome.

TA has a demonstrated record of taking from Labor, not gifting and that includes the big prize. He won't be giving it back in a hurry, so relax a little, try not to overanalyse and enjoy the view.

IFocus · 12 October 2013

Taxpayers won't quickly forgive the expenses scandal

The Coalition was elected to "cut the waste", but voters have found that this set of pollies is just as prone to trough-snorting self-serving excess as the mob they replaced, writes Jonathan Green.

I'm trying to imagine Sir Robert Menzies whisking up the daughter then flying off to Tamworth for the Country Music Festival, enjoying all that golden guitar madness, then billing his maximum entitlements for the chartered air travel and accommodation to the taxpayer.

A charter flight to the Tamworth Country Music Festival, which Mr Abbott attended with one of his daughters, last year cost $8800.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-10-10/green-why-the-expenses-scandal-still-has-legs/5013230

drsmith · 12 October 2013

IFocus said:
Taxpayers won't quickly forgive the expenses scandal

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-10-10/green-why-the-expenses-scandal-still-has-legs/5013230

A must watch for you tomorrow IF.

The ABC's insiders will have Peter Slipper on.

sydboy007 · 13 October 2013

drsmith said:
A must watch for you tomorrow IF.

The ABC's insiders will have Peter Slipper on.

Just another reminder how the Coalition MPs were rorting the system eh.

Has anyone checked to see if Slipper billed his wedding to tax payers? Maybe that's why Coalition MPs think weddings are official business since their all soooooo important.

Hey Gina, when's the next wedding??

drsmith · 13 October 2013

Attacking from behind Peter Slipper will be about as effective for the true believers as it ultimately was for Julia Gillard.

Macquack · 13 October 2013

drsmith said:
TA has a demonstrated record of taking from Labor, not gifting and that includes the big prize. He won't be giving it back in a hurry, so relax a little, try not to overanalyse and enjoy the view.

You have a short memory, Tony Abbott failed to win the "big prize" at the 2010 election.

TA couldn't even get past Julia Gillard, he is hardly a thoroughbred.

sails · 13 October 2013

Macquack said:
You have a short memory, Tony Abbott failed to win the "big prize" at the 2010 election.

TA couldn't even get past Julia Gillard, he is hardly a thoroughbred.

That had more to do with two independents (haha - my ipad was trying to spell that dope dents!) who chose not to represent their majority in their conservative electorates.

The coalition did win a higher primary vote than labor in 2010 and won one more set than labor. The people did not give labor a win. Gillard led a minority government but she had a friendly senate which enabled her to push through legislation regardless of the wishes of the people.

wayneL · 13 October 2013

Macquack said:
You have a short memory, Tony Abbott failed to win the "big prize" at the 2010 election.

TA couldn't even get past Julia Gillard, he is hardly a thoroughbred.

Exactly sails... and Macquack, a tacit admission JG was a dud?

IFocus · 13 October 2013

Go Clive, at least Clive will be an interesting wild card and I expect will expose Abbott ever chance he gets.

Clive Palmer says Prime Minister Tony Abbott's mandate is worth 'zero'

The Prime Minister has repeatedly said non-Coalition senators should respect that voters had given him a mandate to deliver on promises, such as scrapping the carbon tax, and pass his legislation.

But Mr Palmer, whose party could control as many as four senators thanks to an alignment with motoring enthusiast Ricky Muir, said that argument had "zero" weight with him.

drsmith · 13 October 2013

wayneL said:
Exactly sails... and Macquack, a tacit admission JG was a dud?

Not only that, it's a judgement passed regardless of how well he demolished Labor's majority in 2010 and how successful he is from that point and that's yet to be fully written.

A featherless duck and a featherless parrot squawking from the same corner.

13ugs13unny · 14 October 2013

IFocus said:
Go Clive, at least Clive will be an interesting wild card and I expect will expose Abbott ever chance he gets.

Clive Palmer says Prime Minister Tony Abbott's mandate is worth 'zero'

well that would be true if the recount in WA has him in the drivers seat- and in control of the senate, then he would have all the power to run the country as he sees fit not tony.

Tony failed to achieve a full mandate in the senate as well. His party was only delivered a partial mandate that needs to have bills rubber stamped by the senate - clive palmer - tony will need to lick alot of queensland billionaire butt, and the shameless way he has been doing it overseas has been there for all to see, and will be quite good at it, so we should get things done.

Hopefully the rest of the libs party can make up for this embarrassing short coming.

Whiskers · 14 October 2013

drsmith said:
I wish there was an applause icon.

Finally, you give TA at least a little credit.

No... the credit is there to be had, but he still hasn't done it!

TA has a demonstrated record of taking from Labor, not gifting and that includes the big prize. He won't be giving it back in a hurry, so relax a little, try not to overanalyse and enjoy the view.

You confuse giving with taking dr!

Macquack said:
You have a short memory, Tony Abbott failed to win the "big prize" at the 2010 election.

TA couldn't even get past Julia Gillard, he is hardly a thoroughbred.

That's the point, Labor was imploding like never before and gifted many seats away. You just have to look at the increase of the independents to see that labor was giving away more to them than to Abbott.

The fact that those independents put their own interests ahead of the country by warming to Gillard giving rise to them being tossed out and more independent or 'other' parties last election is further proof of dissatisfaction with Labor, giving away, not Abbott taking. Abbott largely got the crumbs, the 1.9% of the 4.5% labor gave away.

The fact, as has been stated sooo many times now, that Abbott couldn't capitalise on everything going as bad as it could for labor, to win a clear majority government in his own right is clear evidence that he is considered the best of a bad bunch, hence... he is on his 'P' plates and as such double demerit points. That's the legacy of his association and ideological fascination of Howard.

People respect the good policies and wish him well for a sustained period of stable, predictable government, but keep him on a short leash for fear of him going AWOL like his idol/mentor Howard.

drsmith said:
Not only that, it's a judgement passed regardless of how well he demolished Labor's majority in 2010 and how successful he is from that point and that's yet to be fully written.

Oh, how the veil of romance clouds ones judgement!

A featherless duck and a featherless parrot squawking from the same corner.

Maybe, but a 'quack' squawking in the guise of a dr... :

Knobby22 · 14 October 2013

Whiskers said:
People respect the good policies and wish him well for a sustained period of stable, predictable government, but keep him on a short leash for fear of him going AWOL like his idol/mentor Howard.

Exactly. I think Abbott might be a good, even great Prime Minister but people don't want to give him total control.
I know I voted Liberal but after voting a lot of independents in front of them including PUP. I still can't believe what happened to Howard's sanity in his last term.

If Tony does do well, he can expect to have peoples trust and do better next election.

People dislike the warriors - look at Sophie Mirabella. It's not tribal warfare, it's running the country to your best ability.

And don't believe you heard the full story about Sophie, you will probably never know because our libel laws are so strong.

Julia · 14 October 2013

Whiskers said:
The fact, as has been stated sooo many times now, that Abbott couldn't capitalise on everything going as bad as it could for labor, to win a clear majority government in his own right is clear evidence that he is considered the best of a bad bunch,

Perhaps be accurate and say that although he has a clear majority in the lower house, he does not in his own right have control of the Senate.

You don't like Mr Abbott, and in another thread you find pretty much everything wrong with Labor's new leader, Mr Shorten. I'm a little curious about who you'd actually like to be running the show?
Surely not the archetypal populist, the most egocentric politician ever - Kevin Rudd?

Whiskers · 14 October 2013

Julia said:
I'm a little curious about who you'd actually like to be running the show?

For me, the who is not near as important as the what they do, hence my point as so many including you have said, it's a choice of the least worse option at times.

For anyone who successfully completed their business degree or many other management and leadership courses, the Drucker quote sums up an awful lot of knowledge and understanding in a short sentence.

“Management is doing things right; leadership is doing the right things.”
― Peter F. Drucker

For me it's no different to business or sport. One has to recognise whether another is capable of, in the first instance, and willing to in the second, carry out one's directions in the spirit of the policy guidelines.

Maybe it's a bit harder for women to trust someone they don't like personally, hence the old saying 'hell has no fury like a woman scorned', but for me it's all pragmatism. If he's got the goods and he's the most likely to get the job done, he's got the job... even if it requires a short leash... limiting his authority to spend money etc and checking in on him unexpectedly for a while.

For me, 'like' would be a bonus, not a prerequisite as it is in professions, sport etc generally.

PS: Objectively though, Rudds leadership rule changes and then not contesting the leadership is probably one of the least egocentric things any labor leader has done for a long time.

Macquack · 14 October 2013

drsmith said:
Not only that, it's a judgement passed regardless of how well he demolished Labor's majority in 2010 and how successful he is from that point and that's yet to be fully written.

The Coalition only picked up a paltry 7 seats in the 2010 election. A "demolition" would imply that there was nothing left standing and that Tony Abbott had become PM, didn't happen. You need to choose your words more accurately, Smith.

drsmith · 14 October 2013

Julia said:
I'm a little curious about who you'd actually like to be running the show?
Surely not the archetypal populist, the most egocentric politician ever - Kevin Rudd?

Whiskers said:
Objectively though, Rudds leadership rule changes and then not contesting the leadership is probably one of the least egocentric things any labor leader has done for a long time.

That answers that question.

Macquack said:
The Coalition only picked up a paltry 7 seats in the 2010 election. A "demolition" would imply that there was nothing left standing and that Tony Abbott had become PM, didn't happen. You need to choose your words more accurately, Smith.

It's your reading that lacks diligence, not my words.

Julia · 14 October 2013

Whiskers said:
Maybe it's a bit harder for women to trust someone they don't like personally, hence the old saying 'hell has no fury like a woman scorned',

I think you're a bit confused about the origin of that bon mot, Whiskers. It referred to the desire for revenge by a woman rejected in love:

Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned

Meaning: A woman rejected in love can be very angry and dangerous.

Origin: This saying is based on lines from The Mourning Bride by William Congreve (1670-1729):

Heaven has no rage like love to hatred turned,
Nor hell a fury like a woman scorned.

PS: Objectively though, Rudds leadership rule changes and then not contesting the leadership is probably one of the least egocentric things any labor leader has done for a long time.

Oh god, remove the scales from your eyes. Nothing to do with his ego. Everything to do with the eventual realisation that he has had it, no one wants him, not his ex colleagues, not the electorate. Even the self deluding Rudd has finally had to acknowledge that - at least until Shorten and all other possible contenders fall over, he has had it.

drsmith · 14 October 2013

Julia said:
- at least until Shorten and all other possible contenders fall over, he has had it.

Is that another dodgy thermostat on the cryogenic freeze ?

Is that a blood stained dagger carelessly left nearby ?

I can't quiet imagine Kevin the humble opposition backbencher.

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Macquack

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