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Sentencing in Australia is a disgrace

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newbie trader said:
If you have for instance a list of 5-10 things to consider and an offender fits (for example) 2/5, who's job is it then to determine why one factor trumps another and vice versa?

N.T
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Wait patiently for improvement or for 3-rd tick

We must have some kind of cut-off point at some stage.

If we can put down some dangerous animals, surely some analogy could be applied to humans, after all we are 98% compatible with some apes, 80% with rats, and 60% with pigs if it might make it easier to accept that some human snowflakes are better not here.
 
Happy said:
Wait patiently for improvement or for 3-rd tick

We must have some kind of cut-off point at some stage.

If we can put down some dangerous animals, surely some analogy could be applied to humans, after all we are 98% compatible with some apes, 80% with rats, and 60% with pigs if it might make it easier to accept that some human snowflakes are better not here.
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I can't really explain myself in depth without using language that would seem to somewhat contradict what ive said previous. But you make very valid points and im sure a lot of people would agree with what youve said.

Question: In your opinion (not considering any other extenuating factors), how many people would one have to kill to recieve the DP?

N.T
 
newbie trader said:
...
Question: In your opinion (not considering any other extenuating factors), how many people would one have to kill to recieve the DP?

N.T
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In my opinion ONE would be one too many, but luckily I do not get to decide about that.

Extremely violent individuals would not be allowed to reproduce either, but this is different issue again.
 
Happy said:
In my opinion ONE would be one too many, but luckily I do not get to decide about that.

Extremely violent individuals would not be allowed to reproduce either, but this is different issue again.
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Yes, luckily. Last sentence at first glance seems quite contentious but I do agree with you as it is only effects the one individual, however, civil libertarians would have a field day.

(Seems on this thread no one seems to like judges :()

N.T
 
newbie trader said:
Yes, luckily. Last sentence at first glance seems quite contentious but I do agree with you as it is only effects the one individual, however, civil libertarians would have a field day.

(Seems on this thread no one seems to like judges :()

N.T
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For some reason more and more people voice their dissatisfaction with balance between crime and the sentence.

Few times I wandered if judges are afraid for their own safety and deliberately give sentences on a lighter side so crims are not as angry as they perceive this as success and general public will only talk, so there is no danger from victims, victims’ supporters and future victims.

Compassion for criminals and reasons for their crimes dries up and I hope one day sentences will reflect this dissatisfaction.
 
Happy said:
Few times I wandered if judges are afraid for their own safety and deliberately give sentences on a lighter side so crims are not as angry as they perceive this as success and general public will only talk, so there is no danger from victims, victims’ supporters and future victims.
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Have you seen "Law Abiding Citizen"?
 
Happy said:
For some reason more and more people voice their dissatisfaction with balance between crime and the sentence.

Few times I wandered if judges are afraid for their own safety and deliberately give sentences on a lighter side so crims are not as angry as they perceive this as success and general public will only talk, so there is no danger from victims, victims’ supporters and future victims.

Compassion for criminals and reasons for their crimes dries up and I hope one day sentences will reflect this dissatisfaction.
Click to expand...

I'm sure there are many people out there who have not had the best upbringing but have broken away and made something of themselves. Although in some circumstances things like this need to be taken into account when sentencing. I agree the sentencing is not really up to scratch, but there are other factors which impede the process (administrative, social, political, legal etc). Maybe its gotton to the stage where judges from lower courts believe that if they hand down a harsh sentence then that will just be over ruled by the appellate court on appeal. But in the end who else can do the work judges do? You? Me? :confused:

I think Gav's remark sums up this whole thread :eek::cautious::rolleyes::banghead:

N.T
 
She would never see the inside of a cell - just after reading that article. 19, remorse shown, family not pushing for a harsh penatly, serious mental illness. I can only comment on what I read obviously but she needs help instead of being locked away.

NT
 
newbie trader said:
...
I can only comment on what I read obviously but she needs help instead of being locked away.

NT
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It worries me that innocent people are killed and all we do is worry about poor sick perpetrators.
My reaction to this is tough and sick person that can and does kill, should not have the right to be between us.
We not violent and not sick people need protection.

I just hate to do all the things to be safe:
don’t go out at night
don’t walk alone at night
don’t leave window open
lock the car (it is law now, it is illegal to leave car open)
have some kind of alarm system everywhere, security screens and security doors.
Drive in the biggest heaviest car you can afford, so in case of collision you have chance to survive.
Don’t react to anything anywhere not to be attacked
Don’t even look at some persons as it might be enough to provoke attack.
And on and on..

Just tiering to think about it.
 
Happy said:
It worries me that innocent people are killed and all we do is worry about poor sick perpetrators.
My reaction to this is tough and sick person that can and does kill, should not have the right to be between us.
We not violent and not sick people need protection.

I just hate to do all the things to be safe:
don’t go out at night
don’t walk alone at night
don’t leave window open
lock the car (it is law now, it is illegal to leave car open)
have some kind of alarm system everywhere, security screens and security doors.
Drive in the biggest heaviest car you can afford, so in case of collision you have chance to survive.
Don’t react to anything anywhere not to be attacked
Don’t even look at some persons as it might be enough to provoke attack.
And on and on..

Just tiering to think about it.
Click to expand...

Same situation 30 year old male - probably would have been locked up.

NT
 
This is kind of off topic (has some ties though) but I didnt want to begin a new thread.

I read an article recently about underbelly and the posibility that through its glamorisation of crime (etc) it may have a detrimental effect on 'young people' encouraging them to engage in risky and unlawful activities. It was an interesting 2 minute read anyway.

http://www.smh.com.au/entertainment...graceful-says-former-judge-20100413-s7po.html

To what extent, if any, do you guys think that underbelly has this effect?
 
A solidly built 17yo rushes at a slightly built 16yo and begins to throw a punch at him. The 16yo who, only a month previously had been assaulted and robbed, pulls out a knife to defend himself (remember 'one punch can kill' or turn you into a vegetable) and kills the aggressor and is now jailed for three years for manslaughter on the basis of having used "excessive self-defence". :eek:

The offender (the 16yo) had no criminal history, was genuinely remorseful and the violence used appeared to be "entirely uncharacteristic", the judge said.

Justice Hidden said Andrew (the 17yo) had clearly initiated the violence, and the offender and his group had been scared and sought to avoid conflict.

When Andrew rushed towards him aggressively, the youth was undoubtedly "very much in fear, particularly in the light of his relatively recent experience of aggression on a train".
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Assuming the 16yo is not a natural fighter, I wonder how our 'system' expects him to defend himself when attacked by a violent thug???

I suppose he's expected to just beg for mercy and then lie down and allow himself to be punched and kicked senseless. :banghead:

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/chase-on-...arents-appeal-to-the-young-20100423-thvq.html
 

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Chris45 said:
A solidly built 17yo rushes at a slightly built 16yo and begins to throw a punch at him. The 16yo who, only a month previously had been assaulted and robbed, pulls out a knife to defend himself (remember 'one punch can kill' or turn you into a vegetable) and kills the aggressor and is now jailed for three years for manslaughter on the basis of having used "excessive self-defence". :eek:



Assuming the 16yo is not a natural fighter, I wonder how our 'system' expects him to defend himself when attacked by a violent thug???

I suppose he's expected to just beg for mercy and then lie down and allow himself to be punched and kicked senseless. :banghead:

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/chase-on-...arents-appeal-to-the-young-20100423-thvq.html
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I havn't done crim law yet so im just guessing (gumby help me out). He basically needed to take the beating or use such force that does not 'exceed' that of the other person? Although if the guy was a black belt in martial arts for instance I think that would be considered as a 'weapon' so the level of force could be increased. If they said that stabbing someone was ok in self defence when you are being beaten it would be a bit problematic.

"His son Andrew, 17, was stabbed by a 16-year-old youth during a confrontation between two groups on a train"
"Justice Hidden said Andrew had clearly initiated the violence, and the offender and his group had been scared and sought to avoid conflict."

No one deserves to die like that. That article doesnt really shed light on what 'really' happend so its a bit hard to make comment. If it was the kid on his own sitting on the train and was attacked of course you'd feel sorry for him 'being in the wrong place at the wrong time'. But the offender was part of a group so its hard to say what actually happend. PROBLEMATIC (just going off the top of my head, its probably all wrong!).
 
GumbyLearner said:
I would start by reading this since your studying in Qld.

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/cases/cth/HCA/1973/35.html

Also consider reasonable fear/apprehension of death/GBH defences.
Remember provocation is not an exculpatory defence under the Qld Criminal Code.
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Austlii is a great free resource isn't it. I'm looking forward to crim next year. Did you do admin during your studies? Apparently it is the hardest course you'll do.
 
newbie trader said:
Austlii is a great free resource isn't it. I'm looking forward to crim next year. Did you do admin during your studies? Apparently it is the hardest course you'll do.
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The key is to read. And read. And read. And read. Admin is tough just like most subjects. Which of course involves reading copious amounts of case law about natural justice and procedural fairness.

Since you're a student I can only give you one piece of advice and that is

DYOR :p:
 

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