Sentencing in Australia is a disgrace

[awg]

Some thugs that attacked an acquaintance of mine have recently been sentenced.

The main culprit got 9 months..for smashing a full bottle over his head causing 50 stitches, head injury and ongoing trauma.

There were aggravating circumstances, as well.

He was on a train when 3 young (adult) thugs began menacing a woman passenger.

Being that he is a 6th dan black belt, weighs 130kg, is covered with martial arts tats, scars and broken nose, has been a bouncer and bears a passing resemblance to a gorilla, he decided to intervene verbally.

He was savagely set upon for his gallantry.

Unfortunately he had been relaxing with a few after work drinks himself, and must have made some mistakes in his situational awareness.

If he had just belted them, it would have been him in jail

Its unimaginable anyone would attack him, (they had criminal records), it would be better if such badass were just shot.

At least he is likely to recieve Criminal Compensation, but that is tax dollars, those filthy scum should have money deducted out of their welfare benefit or whatever until they pay every cent or expire

 

[newbie trader]

AWG that is horrible, I hope your mate is ok and recovering well. Such cowards picking on women...There is nothing gained from taunting people it's just idiocy, they should just stay in their trailer parks where they belong.

N.T

 

[Julia]

Here are two views of a cell in Darwin's Berrimah Prison complete with en suite bathroom, TV, etc. It looks more luxurious than many of the cheap hotel rooms I've stayed in in Asia ... AND you get free food! (No wonder all of those "refugees" are so desperate to get here!)

If you were down on your luck in Darwin and your choice was to either live in a cardboard box in an alley way and scrounge food from rubbish bins, or commit a crime and spend time in a cell like this, I wonder which you'd choose? And when the time came for your release, I wonder if you'd be thinking of how you could get back inside again.

That is hugely more comfortable (before you even consider the free meals, laundry etc thrown in) than most of our mentally ill Australians are able to enjoy in their miserable caravan parks.

Just sickening.

 

[Happy]

That is hugely more comfortable (before you even consider the free meals, laundry etc thrown in) ...

Official excuse / explanation is that penalty ends when sentence is read.


As soon as imprisonment starts it is regarded as rehabilitation and to fully rehabilitate, person has to be treated with dignity with good values present.

Well this is theory, unfortunately crims treat it as bad luck that they have to be there and everything thrown in for them treat with contempt, most of crims have criminal behaviour in their blood it is how they live, of course there are different excuses why, but it is sickening to me too that we all are taken for a ride and we pay for it too!

 

[Wysiwyg]

For premeditated attacks with intent to severely injure or kill. You know, the ones that leave the victim dead or incapacitated both physically and mentally.

Along with deprivation of liberty there must be mental suffering imposed by allowing no mentally distracting or stimulating accessories. This means no television, books, newspapers, games, radio et cetera. To their cell they should have tapes of crying/screaming people played at low volume in the background on and off during the night.

Any obs.??

 

[Happy]

If I could have my say I would make them not only to wipe their own bum, but also prepare their own meals, wash their own clothes and earn their living there, yes forced labour if it needs be.

If they can do weights in gym they can carve stones, make furniture, dig garden to plant or harvest potatoes for their table as well as many other things to pay for their keep, pay cost of guards, rent of premises, water, electricity, sewage, rubbish removal and so on.

 

[awg]

Call me inhumane, but the simplest thing for punishment and management is solitary confinement.

there wouldnt be many comfy cells if I was the architect

The unfortunate fact is that a conservative estimate of those suffering mental illness ( including personality disorder) who are in jail is 70%.

Its an indictment of the mental health care system, to some extent.

Having said that, I am very much a believer that if one commits crime, punishment should be meted out.

 

[aaronphetamine]

After reading a book written by a US federal penitentiary inmate, I have to pose this question to all of you.

In a prime situation jail should be (for most inmates convicted of most crimes) a place where they learn and consider their wrong doings and more importantly recieve education and training and correctional services to mould them into productive members of society once they are released.

Tax payers spend alot of money on the correctional services in Australia and what do we get out of it? A place where people who have committed crimes - usually - but not always, undereducated, underpriveleged people, and what do we do with them ?Put them together in a facility, let them know how much we despise them and resent them for what they have done, and on their eventual release they have learnt nothing and havent changed and they know that society will never accept them and they have no chance to change so the cycle continues.

I would prefer to see a system that really helps the majority of inmates to transform themselves in prison so when they do re emerge they are fully able to use their skills and new found worth to contribute to the society in which they always wished that they could.

I do understand that some crimes are not worthy of that person ever being released back into society, this is mainly pointed at the lower end crimes, non violent, victimless and drug crimes.

 

[Happy]

…..

I would prefer to see a system that really helps the majority of inmates to transform themselves in prison so when they do re emerge they are fully able to use their skills and new found worth to contribute to the society in which they always wished that they could.

….

If we can work outside of the jail, surely to be prepared for life with us it would not hurt anybody to WORK inside, before they come out.

 

[awg]

In a prime situation jail should be (for most inmates convicted of most crimes) a place where they learn and consider their wrong doings and more importantly recieve education and training and correctional services to mould them into productive members of society once they are released.

It would be very expensive and difficult to do this in prison.

As a for instance, the prison psychologists spend most of their time ensuring various prisoners are kept seperate from each other.

To employ enough professionals capable of facilitating that sort of thing would be far more expensive than public opinion would ever allow for. (teachers, counsellors, tradespeople)

Persons with severe personality disorder are extremely intractible and labile, and they make up a very high percentage of repeat offenders.

 

[newbie trader]

I don't think you can necessarily win this debate, as some in prisoners dont wish to change their ways whilst others are willing (or would be willing) to transform themselves. We should not disrespect the rights of these individuals as they are after all human beings such as ourselves, but we should not make prison a 'holiday resort', rather make it uncomfortable to the extent where the prisoner says, 'hey I need to change the direction im heading because I dont want to end up in here again'.

(My comment also doesnt account for those suffering from a mental illness etc.)

N.T

 

[explod]

It would be very expensive and difficult to do this in prison.

As a for instance, the prison psychologists spend most of their time ensuring various prisoners are kept seperate from each other.

To employ enough professionals capable of facilitating that sort of thing would be far more expensive than public opinion would ever allow for. (teachers, counsellors, tradespeople)

Persons with severe personality disorder are extremely intractible and labile, and they make up a very high percentage of repeat offenders.

As Mandella and his cohorts did in SA, they trained themselves and at the end some were even credited with degress. I do not think we have even thought about the amazing possibilities if we really looked outside the square. I used to ponder it a lot in my work and spoke to other professionals about such concepts including senior wardens.

Sure it would cost some at the beginning and many would not cooperate, but I venture as history has shown "Education" equals wealth in all facits.

 

[Julia]

I've had contact with a lot of ex prisoners when they are first released.

Their attitudes and what they have achieved whilst inside vary immensely.

Some have availed themselves of the many rehabilitative programmes that are on offer and come out equipped to make a decent go of a new life.

Others - who have been in the same jail and exposed to the same positive and negative stimuli - say "no one does anything to help us" etc and have no image of themselves as ever becoming contributing members of society.
Their negativity will, by itself, preclude any employer taking them on.

So it really comes down to the attitude of each individual.

The mental health issue is a whole separate story. The jails are indeed full of people with mental illnesses who a few decades ago would have been treated in psychiatric institutions. To take a person with, say, an intellectual disability, overlay a mental illness, and then expose them to the hardline, drug addicted crims, and they haven't a hope.

None of our politicians will genuinely tackle this. There simply are not enough votes in it.

 

[newbie trader]

I've had contact with a lot of ex prisoners when they are first released.

Their attitudes and what they have achieved whilst inside vary immensely.

Some have availed themselves of the many rehabilitative programmes that are on offer and come out equipped to make a decent go of a new life.

Others - who have been in the same jail and exposed to the same positive and negative stimuli - say "no one does anything to help us" etc and have no image of themselves as ever becoming contributing members of society.
Their negativity will, by itself, preclude any employer taking them on.

So it really comes down to the attitude of each individual.

The mental health issue is a whole separate story. The jails are indeed full of people with mental illnesses who a few decades ago would have been treated in psychiatric institutions. To take a person with, say, an intellectual disability, overlay a mental illness, and then expose them to the hardline, drug addicted crims, and they haven't a hope.

None of our politicians will genuinely tackle this. There simply are not enough votes in it.

Some also learn even more skills and knowledge on how to for instance conduct a bank robbery more efficiently from other prisoners as well as make new friends with whom they commit crimes with. It all comes down to, as you said, each individual offender with the prison system only having the capablities to do so much. People have been breaking the rules for thousands of years its just part of life - if the inmates want help then fine by all means give it to them but if they dont theres nothing you can do.

N.T

 

[Happy]

Wander when we stop treating every living person as unique snowflake and feel guilty for them that they did not achieve desired results?

Some people do not deserve to share space with us and sooner we determine who and how to remove them from our society the better.

 

[newbie trader]

Wander when we stop treating every living person as unique snowflake and feel guilty for them that they did not achieve desired results?

Some people do not deserve to share space with us and sooner we determine who and how to remove them from our society the better.

I 'wander' how we can determine this?

N.T

 

[roland]

This waste of space only got 8 years for prostituting a 12 year old girl to more than 120 men:

A TASMANIAN man who pleaded guilty to prostituting a 12-year-old girl in Hobart to more than 120 men has been sentenced to at least eight years in jail.

Gary Devine, 51, of Hobart, on Monday admitted two charges related to organising and supervising the girl's exploitation.

Supreme Court Justice Peter Evans today sentenced Devine to 10 years' jail, with a non-parole period of eight years.

Full story here: http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...-jailed-10-years/story-fn3dxity-1225845161584

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

For any posters seriously interested in crime and sentencing the books and articles of Theodore Dalrymple are a good starting point.

Enclosed is a paragraph from an article at
http://www.city-journal.org/html/16_3_oh_to_be.html

For the last 40 years, government policy in Britain, de facto if not always de jure, has been to render the British population virtually defenseless against criminals and criminality. Almost alone of British government policies, this one has been supremely effective: no Briton nowadays goes many hours without wondering how to avoid being victimized by a criminal intent on theft, burglary, or violence.

A valuable blog will keep you updated on his books and articles
http://blog.skepticaldoctor.com/

gg

 

[Happy]

I 'wander' how we can determine this?

N.T

If there will be will there will be a way.

Like with any other limit we would have to decide what is the cut-off point?

Should somebody be allowed to live, if for example murdered more than one person or more than once?
Should mental condition be allowed as explanation to some horrendous crimes?
Should some other human traits be in or out?

Later we can adjust it and change it, like we changed from death penalty to no death penalty.


Find it hard to believe that you could not think of something?

 

[newbie trader]

If there will be will there will be a way.

Like with any other limit we would have to decide what is the cut-off point?

Should somebody be allowed to live, if for example murdered more than one person or more than once?
Should mental condition be allowed as explanation to some horrendous crimes?
Should some other human traits be in or out?

Later we can adjust it and change it, like we changed from death penalty to no death penalty.


Find it hard to believe that you could not think of something?

People are complaining about the sentencing, to do what you suggest would be completely subjective you could not enforce one strict inflexible rule(s) as it just would not work.

If you have for instance a list of 5-10 things to consider and an offender fits (for example) 2/5, who's job is it then to determine why one factor trumps another and vice versa?

N.T