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Sentencing in Australia is a disgrace

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phantomcamel said:
Instead of them playning outside & siocializing they play "Grand Theft Auto" where it is quiet aceptable to beat up women. Now you can' t tell me that this doesn't influence your future citizen..[/LIST]
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What a bunch of nonsense. In that game it's acceptable to beat up or kill anyone, but it's just a game, and to suggest it is anything more is an insult to the vast majority of people who have ever played a violent video game.
 
Don't they consider reasonable (legally justifiable) action as an action that the majority would make under the same conditions? Who here wouldn't grab the biggest stick they can find and do the same? I don't know if those cases go to juries, but it would take a sad lot to convict him.

Same story but with 5 burglars
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Don't know what is more impressive - chasing 7 away, or getting a 60% strikerate if it was 5 :D.

We need Texas home invasion rules. No wonder we have such high rates of burglary :rolleyes:.
 
Mum warns of revenge for kids' assaultJESSICA STRUTT, The West Australian March 4, 2010, 3:20 pm Buzz up! Send


A revenge attack is likely on a Mr Whippy ice-cream man charged with wounding three juveniles during a bungled home break-in, relatives of the children warned yesterday.

The mother and older brother of a 14-year-old boy who was knocked unconscious during the incident said Carnarvon resident Glenn Gregory, 52, had taken the law into his own hands and they would too.

There appeared to be a lot of support for Mr Gregory from Carnarvon locals yesterday, with many saying there was a lot of frustration in the town because of continual break-ins.

An uncle of a girl who needed stitches to an open head wound from the alleged assault said there would be retribution against Mr Gregory from Aboriginal family members.

All three relatives, who cannot be named for legal reasons, said Mr Gregory had gone "too far". They said he should have called the police to deal with the break-in at his suburban home in Carnarvon.

The mother, whose two sons have been charged with aggravated burglary over the break-in, said she hoped Mr Gregory, who has been charged with three counts of aggravated wounding, went to jail.

The mother acknowledged that the seven juveniles, aged 11 to 15, involved in the break-in on Sunday night had done the wrong thing.

She said a retaliation bashing of Mr Gregory might not happen straight away but it would occur, possibly months down the track.

"When he cornered them he could have just kept them there and waited for the police but instead he went and flogged into them."

All three relatives said Mr Gregory would not be welcome on the streets selling ice-cream to the town's children anymore.

The brother of the 14-year-old said: "By right that little boy he got big brothers and we can take the law in our own hands, too."

Mr Gregory said this week he was sad about what happened and wished he could turn the clock back.

Police will allege that after he was woken by seven juveniles trying to break into his home, Mr Gregory cornered three of them and assaulted them with some sort of weapon which they believe was either a metal pole or a wooden stick.
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Better start packing that uzi.........


Shame his business also suffers
 
IMO: if you live in SA do not vote for Mike Rann.

I doubt, however, that his proposed changes will pass through and be implemented...but what an ubsurd idea...as the article states there is no need for this reform whatsoever...there are already provisions within the common law to deal with such instances when previous offences can be brought forward to jurors...itll create prejudice...how can jurors be expected to think objectively if they are bombarded with such information? I know the article explains this and I am in essence just regurgitating its views (but they are views I hold). At the end of the day I think this is just a political stunt (as the article says) to paint Mike Rann as someone who is 'tough on crime'. These proposed changes are a mistake. God help us and our legal system if they are passed. What a joke SA.

N.T
 
newbie trader said:
IMO: if you live in SA do not vote for Mike Rann.

I doubt, however, that his proposed changes will pass through and be implemented...but what an ubsurd idea...as the article states there is no need for this reform whatsoever...there are already provisions within the common law to deal with such instances when previous offences can be brought forward to jurors...itll create prejudice...how can jurors be expected to think objectively if they are bombarded with such information? I know the article explains this and I am in essence just regurgitating its views (but they are views I hold). At the end of the day I think this is just a political stunt (as the article says) to paint Mike Rann as someone who is 'tough on crime'. These proposed changes are a mistake. God help us and our legal system if they are passed. What a joke SA.

N.T
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Sounds like they are having a chop at exceptions to the similar fact evidence rule.
 
A chop is a good description...I wouldn't mind hearing the opinions of some others on this thread as I am sure there are people who are 'for' the changes, would be good to hear your views.

N.T
 
newbie trader said:
A chop is a good description...I wouldn't mind hearing the opinions of some others on this thread as I am sure there are people who are 'for' the changes, would be good to hear your views.

N.T
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I think the Australian govmint aren't tough enough on serious crime.

For violent and heinous sexual offences I'd like to see a "three strikes rule".

That's three victims whose lives the criminal has shattered. After that IMO they have proven that they cannot play well with others.

If you are convicted three times for one of these offences you get locked up...for life...mandatory..set in legislation so piss weak Judges can't change the sentence and give them a slap on the wrist.

Cheers

Sir O
 
Sir O,

You do make some very valid points here, but in respect to the proposed changes in question do you think we need them? Obviously from my previous posts, I do not think we do. Our legal system already operates and has many similarities with the US, I know a few solicitors who graduated here in Australia and easily found jobs in the US (without having to undertake any further studies). Australia does however, have far less crime per capita than the US. As for a three strike 'rule' i'm sure you would find a lot of support within the community for its implementation, however, the civil libertarians would not be happy. One thing which we seem to be seeing more and more of in the news are all these frivolous law suits being brought before the court which waste the tax payers money and alienate the public - boy sues teacher for 15,000 for waking him up in class. Sure at the end of the day our legal system is not perfect, but far too often I see people making outlandish comments about things which they really have no specific knowledge on and it can be quite frustrating. Sentencing in Australia does in some cases seem far from perfect, but normally a sentence is a reflection on many things not just the crime that has been committed...many things that the news articles neglect to mention...being a judge (and I know some) is not as easy as everyone on this thread seems to think it is...most cases which make it to trial are not straight forward, you cannot have some list of crimes and corresponding sentences on it [i.e murder 50 years (just an example)]. I know I have rambled on a bit here, but i hope you can make sense of some of it :p:. I just wanted to bring another perspective to what is a very interesting thread.

N.T
 
newbie trader said:
Sir O,

You do make some very valid points here, but in respect to the proposed changes in question do you think we need them? Obviously from my previous posts, I do not think we do. Our legal system already operates and has many similarities with the US, I know a few solicitors who graduated here in Australia and easily found jobs in the US (without having to undertake any further studies). Australia does however, have far less crime per capita than the US. As for a three strike 'rule' i'm sure you would find a lot of support within the community for its implementation, however, the civil libertarians would not be happy. One thing which we seem to be seeing more and more of in the news are all these frivolous law suits being brought before the court which waste the tax payers money and alienate the public - boy sues teacher for 15,000 for waking him up in class. Sure at the end of the day our legal system is not perfect, but far too often I see people making outlandish comments about things which they really have no specific knowledge on and it can be quite frustrating. Sentencing in Australia does in some cases seem far from perfect, but normally a sentence is a reflection on many things not just the crime that has been committed...many things that the news articles neglect to mention...being a judge (and I know some) is not as easy as everyone on this thread seems to think it is...most cases which make it to trial are not straight forward, you cannot have some list of crimes and corresponding sentences on it [i.e murder 50 years (just an example)]. I know I have rambled on a bit here, but i hope you can make sense of some of it :p:. I just wanted to bring another perspective to what is a very interesting thread.

N.T
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Hi Newbie,

My view (and the crux of the issue with the article) is that each criminal offence is treated on an individual basis, in almost all cases without the context of past behaviour.

If you demonstrate a persistent pattern violent or predatory behaviour regardless of extenuating circumstances (with the possible exception of genuine mental illness), then the question needs to be asked do we want that person as part of our society? By behaving in this manner, do we kick them out of the playground?

Then there is the way that criminals plead guilty to their crimes - and we thank them for doing so by making deals. BIG deals, which means that they are out in a fraction of the time they could potentially be incarcerated for. As if the act of admitting to their own actions somehow exonerates the pain of their victims.

I've seen numbers on pedophile stats and they are truly scary. The number of lives that they destroy over the period they offend is horrendous, and yet we keep letting them out of jail. It's obvious what the public thinks - just look at the levels of hatred leveled towards Ferguson.

Og well that is my rant

Cheers

Sir O
 
I agree, if they they can't learn a lesson the first or second time they need to be dealt with harshly. They obviously have a mental problem that needs sorting. This won't happen by just throwing them in the can though, they need real rehabilitation, to be retaught how to act in society, to relearn right from wrong. Jails are full of people with mental disabilities, people that were abused as kids, junkies and people that just were not brought up right. We just throw them in there with other crims so they can swap stories and learn more criminal behaviour while being surrounded by drugs and violence and then wonder why they reoffend.
 
Sir O,

Your last post gave me a better understanding of your position than that of the previous post. I actually do agree with you for the majority of what you said (i'm not contradicting myself :eek:). Feel free to prove me wrong but I think I have read in serveral articles that most pedophile's dont want to/cant be rehibilitated which puts people in a tricky position (the crimes pedophile's commit in my opinion are the worst...i know there may be reasons for why they do it...but it just makes me sick none the less). But yes I should probably just concede ;) you are much older and wiser than I will ever be.

N.T :p:
 
Funny story (I guess it could go with Nun and Mr J's recent posts). A man recently found 3 or so people breaking into his shed at night. He quickly called 000 and told the operator what was happening. He was told that there were no units in the area and that the wait would be 30min-1hour or something. He hung up the phone and 2minutes later called back saying not to hurry that he had shot them. within 3min there were police cars coming from every direction.

N.T
 
michael_t_f said:
I agree, if they they can't learn a lesson the first or second time they need to be dealt with harshly. ...
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Exactly.

On a sideline I can see some benefit in sterilising violent offenders, so their genes are not passed on.

If we can breed other species to be non-aggeressive, why don't we use this technique on ourselves?


On a sideline I can see some benefit in sterilising violent offenders, so their genes are not passed on.

If we can breed other species to be non-aggressive, why don't we use this technique on ourselves?
 
Totally agree!

When will a 20 yr sentence....ACUALLY BE A 20YR SENTENCE!
Whats with all the privilages prisoners get...like tv etc. Its not supposed to be "fun"

Eye for an eye I say.
You steal...you lose a hand for it.
You murder....you die as your punishment (that includes cruelity to animals)

Its pretty simple to me!
 
Go Nuke said:
Totally agree!

When will a 20 yr sentence....ACUALLY BE A 20YR SENTENCE!
Whats with all the privilages prisoners get...like tv etc. Its not supposed to be "fun"

Eye for an eye I say.
You steal...you lose a hand for it.
You murder....you die as your punishment (that includes cruelity to animals)

Its pretty simple to me!
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Hope that one day there will be another referendum and people who want law and order will be in majority, but the way our society is going I don't think so.

Being criminal is no big deal, getting caught bit of a problem, but judges seem to ease the pain of waiting to reoffend again.


http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=1030809

Bikeway rapist to keep reduced sentence
08:30 AEST Tue Mar 23 2010


The Queensland government won't fight a court decision to reduce the sentence of Brisbane's serial bikeway rapist.
Luke James Colless, 34, was sentenced to 25 years last year for the rape of five women and the sexual assault of six others between 2006 and 2008.
Last month, the Court of Appeal slashed that sentence by nine years.
Queensland Attorney-General Cameron Dick said the state's Solicitor-General Walter Sofronoff QC has advised there was no legal basis for an appeal to the high court.
"Given the solicitor-general's clear and unequivocal advice that there is no prospect of success, the government will not make an application to seek special leave to appeal," Mr Dick said in a statement.
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I checked the article twice, yes this is what the article says.

Thank heavens there is no penalty of contempt of court if somebody doesn't agree with what wigs decide!
 
Go Nuke said:
Whats with all the privilages prisoners get...like tv etc. Its not supposed to be "fun"
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Here are two views of a cell in Darwin's Berrimah Prison complete with en suite bathroom, TV, etc. It looks more luxurious than many of the cheap hotel rooms I've stayed in in Asia ... AND you get free food! (No wonder all of those "refugees" are so desperate to get here!)

If you were down on your luck in Darwin and your choice was to either live in a cardboard box in an alley way and scrounge food from rubbish bins, or commit a crime and spend time in a cell like this, I wonder which you'd choose? And when the time came for your release, I wonder if you'd be thinking of how you could get back inside again.
 

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