Resisting Climate Hysteria

[dutchie]

It's a strange world.

Earth heading for ‘mini ice age’ within 15 years

http://www.news.com.au/technology/e...-within-15-years/story-e6frflp0-1227439329592


Start redrawing the predicted temperature charts.

 

[Knobby22]

Research lead Professor Valentina Zharkova said fluid movements within the Sun, believed to create 11-year cycles in the weather, will cancel each other out, triggering a dramatic temperature drop.

This will lead to a weather phenomenon known as a “mini ice age” which previously hit between 1645 and 1715.

The findings are based on a new model which scientists claim produces “unprecedentedly accurate predictions of irregularities” within the Sun’s “heartbeat”.

“[In the cycle between 2030 and around 2040] the two waves exactly mirror each other — peaking at the same time but in opposite hemispheres of the sun,” Prof Zharkova said.

“Their interaction will be disruptive, or they will nearly cancel each other. We predict that this will lead to the properties of a ‘Maunder Minimum’.”

Maunder Minimum was the name given to the period between 1645 and 1715 when Europe and North America experienced very cold winters.[/B]

Wow! Found the article.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/07/150709092955.htm

This would be amazing luck for humanity. I hope she is correct. Got to wait till 2030 though.

 

[trainspotter]

Isn't the exhaust from vehicles carbon monoxide?

Not anymore. Used to be from old leaded petrol engines but now we have catalytic converters to turn it into carbon dioxide.

The largest part of most combustion gas is nitrogen (N2), water vapor (H2O) (except with pure-carbon fuels), and carbon dioxide (CO2) (except for fuels without carbon); these are not toxic or noxious (although carbon dioxide is a greenhouse gas that contributes to global warming). A relatively small part of combustion gas is undesirable noxious or toxic substances, such as carbon monoxide (CO) from incomplete combustion, hydrocarbons (properly indicated as CxHy, but typically shown simply as "HC" on emissions-test slips) from unburnt fuel, nitrogen oxides (NOx) from excessive combustion temperatures, and particulate matter (mostly soot).

So you would get a headache and pretty sick but I don't think it would kill you other than to starve you from oxygen.

 

[Tisme]

Not anymore. Used to be from old leaded petrol engines but now we have catalytic converters to turn it into carbon dioxide.

We have that pinko, commo, fabian, Ralph Nader to thank for that and a progressive govt in California who decided to listen to what they had been looking at through their windows.

 

[trainspotter]

Heard a few weeks ago some research found that about half of all Indian children in Delhi suffered from lung/breathing disease. The city's air quality is off the scale bad - worst than China's major cities... But ey, it could be their diet or something; maybe it's genetic.

Nothing to do with the fact they have open fires to cook on inside their homes. Nor that they are one of the highest polluting countries in the world because they are using old technology.

 

[noco]

Nothing to do with the fact they have open fires to cook on inside their homes. Nor that they are one of the highest polluting countries in the world because they are using old technology.

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300,000,000 are without electricity in India hence they have no alternative but to cook over open fires.

 

[luutzu]

Nothing to do with the fact they have open fires to cook on inside their homes. Nor that they are one of the highest polluting countries in the world because they are using old technology.

View attachment 63370

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True that the, mostly, women who cook with poorly designed pots does suffer from lung and eye diseases too, with a large number of older women losing their sight from long exposure to the smoke etc. over many decades.

But that's mainly in the rural areas; and the cooking are done not in the main house but in an outside/separate kitchen/cooking area - not many kids were doing to actual cooking.

The report I saw was in Delhi, the capital city.

 

[trainspotter]

But that's mainly in the rural areas; and the cooking are done not in the main house but in an outside/separate kitchen/cooking area - not many kids were doing to actual cooking.

If you look at the picture it clearly shows a little kid shielding his eyes from the smoke of the fire. Many people do not have a separate cooking area and the whole family lives in one room. When they are babies they generally are slung in a papoose on the woman's back while she does the cooking. You figure it out.

Yep the pollution is bad in India ... up to catastrophic proportions.

http://aqicn.org/map/india/

Current Population of India in 2015 1,289,531,964 (1.28 billion) As of July 12, 2015
0 to 25 years = 50% of India's current population (which means they are breeding at a phenomenal rate)

A child is born every 1.1764 seconds.

Which means the need for cheap energy/heating/cooking as well as transportation is contributing a vastly skewiff rate of pollution compared to the rest of the world. Modernising this many people will not happen in my lifetime.

 

[luutzu]

If you look at the picture it clearly shows a little kid shielding his eyes from the smoke of the fire. Many people do not have a separate cooking area and the whole family lives in one room. When they are babies they generally are slung in a papoose on the woman's back while she does the cooking. You figure it out.

Yep the pollution is bad in India ... up to catastrophic proportions.

http://aqicn.org/map/india/

Current Population of India in 2015 1,289,531,964 (1.28 billion) As of July 12, 2015
0 to 25 years = 50% of India's current population (which means they are breeding at a phenomenal rate)

A child is born every 1.1764 seconds.

Which means the need for cheap energy/heating/cooking as well as transportation is contributing a vastly skewiff rate of pollution compared to the rest of the world. Modernising this many people will not happen in my lifetime.

From that picture you conclude most rural households cook inside their one room?

I've seen video newsreel (on SBS recently i think) where the poor rural Indian villagers cook in a separate hut outside their small house. It's nothing modern or fancy, but it's a separate roof.

In that same news clip, there are some enterprising Indian companies that's making cheaper cooktops, ones that reduces smog and have a chimney that take the smog out through the roof.

Anyway, if you're saying that smog from the kitchen causes irreversible lung disease in 50% of Delhi's children, you're way off the reservation.

That's like saying rice farming and animal manure also causes global warming. Sure it does... but how significant is it? Very negligible.


As that researcher in the news clip above said... there are many factors that contributes to the kids lung diseases and Delhi's air pollution in general. Among the causes are power station, construction, open burning of rubbish... but the overwhelming cause of air pollution and deadly air particulates comes from the burning of fossil fuel - from coal, from gas and oil, from the traffic.

Further, I think he said the majority of severe cases are those living near the major traffic corridors.

Are we seriously even debating whether the burning of fossil fuel is damaging to health?

----

Birth rate:

From wikipedia... fertility rate per woman averages 1.79 in Delhi; or 2.39 across India in 2013
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_states_ranking_by_fertility_rate

So it's not excessive.

Maybe so many Indians are young could be because life expectancy is very low. Not necessarily because they breed like Catholics or live to a ripe old age like most Westerners.

 

[Smurf1976]

Not anymore. Used to be from old leaded petrol engines but now we have catalytic converters to turn it into carbon dioxide.

I recall reading somewhere that suicide by means of vehicle exhaust has become less common in developed countries, largely because it's now much harder to actually do it with the lower CO concentration in modern vehicle exhaust gases.

Not sure if that's true, but I do recall reading it somewhere.

particulate matter (mostly soot)

In the context of vehicle engines, agreed that particles will be mostly soot. But in other applications the particles may also be inorganic ash. Eg heavy fuel oil (#6 fuel oil) produces visible smoke when burned and whilst some of that may be carbon from incomplete combustion, the ash present in the fuel also goes straight up the stack unless the facility (eg power station or factory) using it has equipment to trap those particulates. In practice, most oil-fired plant is either 35+ years old (most developed countries) or is somewhere (Third World) where they don't have the $ to be worried about particulates anyway. End result = majority of such facilities have no emission controls whatsoever so the ash goes straight up the stack.

Ash in oil? Yes there is, it's present in #6 fuel oil especially but there's some in #5 and some blends of #4 as well since they are residual oils not fully distilled.

 

[Smurf1976]

the overwhelming cause of air pollution and deadly air particulates comes from the burning of fossil fuel - from coal, from gas and oil

Coal certainly and depending on the actual product and its usage also oil. But particulate emissions from gas are trivial under normal circumstances involving gas used in a burner for heating, cooking etc with a blue flame.

It's possible to get soot from gas, it's done commercially as a source of carbon black, but for normal use the technology to avoid it is incredibly simple - ordinary gas burner with a blue flame gets rid of the vast majority.

 

[SirRumpole]

I recall reading somewhere that suicide by means of vehicle exhaust has become less common in developed countries, largely because it's now much harder to actually do it with the lower CO concentration in modern vehicle exhaust gases.

Not sure if that's true, but I do recall reading it somewhere.

You used to be able to do yourself in by sticking your head in a gas oven, but you can't even do that anymore.

Pretty soon car exhaust will be so clean we'll be able to breath it.


Of course if we had hydrogen fuel cell cars, we could drink the exhaust as well. Will people try to commit:drink: suicide by drowning in their hydrogen car exhaust ?

 

[luutzu]

I recall reading somewhere that suicide by means of vehicle exhaust has become less common in developed countries, largely because it's now much harder to actually do it with the lower CO concentration in modern vehicle exhaust gases.

Not sure if that's true, but I do recall reading it somewhere.
...

Didn't Robin William died a couple years ago from suicide by vehicle exhaust?

I went around Asia a few years ago... and whatever chemical is in the fumes, it'll kill you. If not right away, it will eventually if you live in the area long enough.

 

[trainspotter]

From that picture you conclude most rural households cook inside their one room?

I've seen video newsreel (on SBS recently i think) where the poor rural Indian villagers cook in a separate hut outside their small house. It's nothing modern or fancy, but it's a separate roof.

In that same news clip, there are some enterprising Indian companies that's making cheaper cooktops, ones that reduces smog and have a chimney that take the smog out through the roof.

Anyway, if you're saying that smog from the kitchen causes irreversible lung disease in 50% of Delhi's children, you're way off the reservation.

That's like saying rice farming and animal manure also causes global warming. Sure it does... but how significant is it? Very negligible.


As that researcher in the news clip above said... there are many factors that contributes to the kids lung diseases and Delhi's air pollution in general. Among the causes are power station, construction, open burning of rubbish... but the overwhelming cause of air pollution and deadly air particulates comes from the burning of fossil fuel - from coal, from gas and oil, from the traffic.

Further, I think he said the majority of severe cases are those living near the major traffic corridors.

Are we seriously even debating whether the burning of fossil fuel is damaging to health?

----

Birth rate:

From wikipedia... fertility rate per woman averages 1.79 in Delhi; or 2.39 across India in 2013
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_states_ranking_by_fertility_rate

So it's not excessive.

Maybe so many Indians are young could be because life expectancy is very low. Not necessarily because they breed like Catholics or live to a ripe old age like most Westerners.

Haha not because of one picture stolen off the interweb. Seen this first hand in several countries. Children are reared around an open fire that burns the natural habitat because they cannot afford anything else.

Yes there are micro loans happening to give them a light in their humpy. Dirt poor is the word I would use in this instance.

http://www.kiva.org/india

As for being off the reservation it is ingrained in the children form an early age to get all that smoke into your lungs. NO EDUCATION you see. If you tell them it is bad for them to inhale this stuff then they have no way else of cooking as they are dirt poor. 1.3 billion of them man.

Insignificant collectively adds up to something at the end of the day. It is a volume business.

 

[trainspotter]

Didn't Robin William died a couple years ago from suicide by vehicle exhaust?

I went around Asia a few years ago... and whatever chemical is in the fumes, it'll kill you. If not right away, it will eventually if you live in the area long enough.

No .. he hung himself.

Cigarettes are just as bad. :kiffer:

 

[luutzu]

Haha not because of one picture stolen off the interweb. Seen this first hand in several countries. Children are reared around an open fire that burns the natural habitat because they cannot afford anything else.

Yes there are micro loans happening to give them a light in their humpy. Dirt poor is the word I would use in this instance.

http://www.kiva.org/india

As for being off the reservation it is ingrained in the children form an early age to get all that smoke into your lungs. NO EDUCATION you see. If you tell them it is bad for them to inhale this stuff then they have no way else of cooking as they are dirt poor. 1.3 billion of them man.

Insignificant collectively adds up to something at the end of the day. It is a volume business.

Not all of them are dirt poor, maybe a couple hundred millions. But all breathe the same air though.

Well, except for the very rich being driven around in limo and rolls royce with properly maintained air-filters, who live and work in houses and buildings with the world's best air filters.

Not all 1.3 billion of them cook with coal or sticks of timber, or hang around the kitchen. But most of them do use power and fuel and scooters and buses.


Anyway, early death and illness to the poor aside, climate hoax and leftist red alarmist propaganda aside... wouldn't it be a good thing to just develop alternative sources of energy, one that is a bit cleaner and more efficient... If for not other reason than because technological ingenuity and progress is also one of the things humans are good at as well?

The steam ships and steam engine trains are nice and all, but they're noisy and dirty as heck arent they? Would you rather an old 19th century coal-power train or the newer generation of electric ones on our network?

 

[noco]

I watched Tim Flannery on Shy news 601 today and he raved on about renewable energy but did not mention Global Warming or Climate Change once.

Looks like he has joined the skeptics.

 

[Smurf1976]

You used to be able to do yourself in by sticking your head in a gas oven, but you can't even do that anymore.

Prior to the widespread use of natural gas, we used to have what was known as Town Gas.

Historically town gas was produced from high grade black coal but by the 1950's other methods were also in use involving brown coal (Victoria was one of the few places globally to do that on a large scale), lower grade black coal and various petroleum products including fuel oil, naptha and LPG.

By the time natural gas came along, only about 10% of town gas in Melbourne was still from black coal - 30% brown coal, 30% fuel oil etc, 30% oil refinery gases (LPG). Hobart switched to 100% production from naptha (a liquid very similar to petrol) in 1964 and Launceston went to 100% butane in 1978. Not sure about elsewhere although I know that Brisbane was using butane (I think) as feedstock at one time.

That's all gone now however, basically nowhere on earth (with very few exceptions) still uses town gas today. It's highly toxic stuff in its unburnt form and contains a lot of carbon monoxide. Hence inhaling even modest amounts of the stuff is one way to end your life rather quickly.

It was impressive in some ways, 1800's technology that turned coal into gas, but it's nasty stuff in many ways. Apart from being toxic, it outright stinks too. Hard to describe if you've never smelled it, other than to say that you don't want to.

 

[trainspotter]

Not all of them are dirt poor, maybe a couple hundred millions. But all breathe the same air though.

Well, except for the very rich being driven around in limo and rolls royce with properly maintained air-filters, who live and work in houses and buildings with the world's best air filters.

The steam ships and steam engine trains are nice and all, but they're noisy and dirty as heck arent they? Would you rather an old 19th century coal-power train or the newer generation of electric ones on our network?

In 2012, India's per-capita income stood at $1,550, and world per-capita income around $10,235, suggesting that the ratio of Indian per-capita income to the world average is a measly 0.15. Meanwhile, the multimillionaire ratio (India's share relative to its population) is 3/17 = 0.17. These two ratios are close, which suggests that neither self-congratulation nor admonition is quite called for at this stage.

http://articles.economictimes.india...d-average-multimillionaires-per-capita-income

They can't afford them. It's a numbers game. $4.28 a day to live on per-capita compared to global $28.04 / day economy does not compute. Computer says no.

 

[luutzu]

http://articles.economictimes.india...d-average-multimillionaires-per-capita-income

They can't afford them. It's a numbers game. $4.28 a day to live on per-capita compared to global $28.04 / day economy does not compute. Computer says no.

Are you going to trust a computer or my wisdom?