Resisting Climate Hysteria

[orr]

Where were you when Flim-Flam was raking in $180k of taxpayers money each year, plus public speaking fees, to tell us that Perth was going to be a ghost metropolis? And that the dams would empty? Or now suddenly becoming a paid advisor (salary undisclosed) to the Climate Council.

Submit to my alarmist religion or the wives get it - is that what you're saying.

If you want to look into it, you'd find out that Perth's water security rests on desalination. You may need to read a little more widely to make a reasonable assessment of Flannery's prognosis than just 'Murdoch's' toadies.
There's no religion involved in the drying trend of S/Western WA, It's predicted accurately by scientific climate modelling.

If 50 Company executives were murdered each year I'm sure there'd be money found, very quickly, for shelters for them.
As uncomfortable as Abbott's hypocrisy with regard what he says and what he does concerning the murders of scores of women each year is for those supporters who bathe in the constructed patriarchal, greed, fear and business at all costs that aids the dysfunction of and in, already stressed domestic situations. Tragically the cultural shift to lessen this pressure is beyond your imagination.
How many Businesses work on 'your' discontents(quite often manufactured) and sell their product to ease them.
Now ask yourself ? The more contented you are, are you more or less likely to murder someone.

Keep me posted on Lomborg's $4 million worth of usefulness. Glad you're happy to be paying for him.

 

[explod]

How many Businesses work on 'your' discontents(quite often manufactured) and sell their product to ease them.
Now ask yourself ? The more contented you are, are you more or less likely to murder someone..

 

[noco]

If you want to look into it, you'd find out that Perth's water security rests on desalination. You may need to read a little more widely to make a reasonable assessment of Flannery's prognosis than just 'Murdoch's' toadies.
There's no religion involved in the drying trend of S/Western WA, It's predicted accurately by scientific climate modelling.

If 50 Company executives were murdered each year I'm sure there'd be money found, very quickly, for shelters for them.
As uncomfortable as Abbott's hypocrisy with regard what he says and what he does concerning the murders of scores of women each year is for those supporters who bathe in the constructed patriarchal, greed, fear and business at all costs that aids the dysfunction of and in, already stressed domestic situations. Tragically the cultural shift to lessen this pressure is beyond your imagination.
How many Businesses work on 'your' discontents(quite often manufactured) and sell their product to ease them.
Now ask yourself ? The more contented you are, are you more or less likely to murder someone.

Keep me posted on Lomborg's $4 million worth of usefulness. Glad you're happy to be paying for him.

But you don't mention Flannery's dumb predictions for Vic,. NSW and Qld.

 

[noco]

It never ceases to amaze me why these alarmist still continue with their stupid propaganda with chimneys pouring out thick black smoke...It looks so convincing, my word it does.

The "Independent Climate Change Committee", hand picked by the Green/Labor coalition.....Read their back grounds.


http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/...st_a_word_of_fairfaxs_latest_warming_warning/

 

[wayneL]

While rain pattern is noted it not established what factors are involved.

In addition, Perth has nearly tripled in population during the period in question (circa 1972) without any substantive increase in water storage, so extraneous water sources were always going to be necessary.

The aquifers are not a bottomless pit so desalination became another option.

As noco has noted, you cannot just cherrypick a portion of a portion of a prediction and claim accuracy.

 

[orr]

As noco has noted, you cannot just cherrypick a portion of a portion of a prediction and claim accuracy.

I'm not here to defend Flannery, Who's book 'The Weather Makers' by the way, outlined worst case scenarios that are cherry picked at random, with no context.... In this case to distract from the $4million appointment Bjorn Lomborg, for what good reason? by Captain Clown Shoes, Climate AGW Denier.

We all know the reason, don't we... in not much more than a generation Australia's coal is not going to be worth very much at all. Hearing much about sequestration? good reason. Do you need the link to the 25 year Electricity supply contract that went to the cheapest cost provider over there in the UAE(Dubai) late last year? DYOR...

or revisit Steven Chu's(Former US Energy Zsar) address to the Press Club
http://www.abc.net.au/news/programs/...al-press-club/

 

[wayneL]

The message is the image is of course politically motivated, but does highlight a point about the climate klaxons such as Gore, the monumentally, gargantuanly hypocritical DiCaprio... et al.

 

[explod]

As noco has noted, you cannot just cherrypick a portion of a portion of a prediction and claim accuracy.

Gaawwwd, pot calling the kettle black here Champ.

 

[wayneL]

Gaawwwd, pot calling the kettle black here Champ.

Care to elaborate Plod? I do not recall making any climate predictions.

 

[wayneL]

People of the bush know it by observations and that is why even farmers are turning away from the CP and towards the Greens . Of couse the numbers are slow because the farms are being sold off to overseas interests.

Plod being a farrier, as you can imagine I have a lot of farmers as clients, also a lot of farmer friends.

My experience is precisely the opposite. They are almost without excpetion, doubters of CAGW. They note and recognise change, but see it more as a cycle. FWIW

 

[wayneL]

... and geez Plod. Mate you are one of the few sincere Greens that walks the walk. I do respect you for that. Ergo, you should be shouting the loudest about the Climate Pharisees, Pious Prius driving pontificators and hypocrits

 

[Knobby22]

Prius is old hat.
The new car of choice is the Tesla.
http://www.teslamotors.com/en_AU

My friend wants to buy one as he test drove it and preferred it to his V8.

 

[explod]

Care to elaborate Plod? I do not recall making any climate predictions.

Sifting the findings or so called science to fit a DESIRED outcome or argument.

 

[explod]

Plod being a farrier, as you can imagine I have a lot of farmers as clients, also a lot of farmer friends.

My experience is precisely the opposite. They are almost without excpetion, doubters of CAGW. They note and recognise change, but see it more as a cycle. FWIW

Yes, get up the bush often, friends and family, Lismore to Ararat in Victoria. Many still burn the stubble each year prior to next turnover, stripping soil of fertility in the process. Follow every word of thier local agents for super and other farm supplies. Feed off all they are told at Liberal political meetings and gatherings after church service. Nothing changes up the bush, except the droughts bad this year.

However as a visitor, sometimes with 5 year gaps I observe enourmouse change. Fresh water lakes and dams I fished as a 17 year old shearer in 1965 are now dried up sault beds. The local farmers do not acknowlege or see this change.

 

[Ijustnewit]

Anyone want to take a guess at how much Carbon will be put into the atmosphere from the Chile volcano ?
The ABC reports that the volcano is sending ash and smoke into the sky. How much of that is Carbon ?
No one has yet made the claim the volcano was caused by Global Warming / Climate Change.
Maybe it will be enough to block out the sun for a few months and cool the Planet down ?

 

[Knobby22]

Anyone want to take a guess at how much Carbon will be put into the atmosphere from the Chile volcano ?
The ABC reports that the volcano is sending ash and smoke into the sky. How much of that is Carbon ?
No one has yet made the claim the volcano was caused by Global Warming / Climate Change.
Maybe it will be enough to block out the sun for a few months and cool the Planet down ?

If the volcano is producing sulphur dioxide then that would definitely have an effect on cooling the planet. Sending ash 1000kms up into the atmosphere should also have some effect. It would have to last a while though because it doesn't look that big by the picture.

 

[wayneL]

Yes, get up the bush often, friends and family, Lismore to Ararat in Victoria. Many still burn the stubble each year prior to next turnover, stripping soil of fertility in the process. Follow every word of thier local agents for super and other farm supplies. Feed off all they are told at Liberal political meetings and gatherings after church service. Nothing changes up the bush, except the droughts bad this year.

However as a visitor, sometimes with 5 year gaps I observe enourmouse change. Fresh water lakes and dams I fished as a 17 year old shearer in 1965 are now dried up sault beds. The local farmers do not acknowlege or see this change.

Much change in the environment is due to land use changes, clearing, fertilisers etc and nothing at all to do with climate change, either natural or anthropogenic.

This is where we need to focus rather than co2

 

[explod]

Much change in the environment is due to land use changes, clearing, fertilisers etc and nothing at all to do with climate change, either natural or anthropogenic.

This is where we need to focus rather than co2

Agree. However the 85 odd % loss of our forests has made the ability for sufficient natural absorption of co2 impossible. The need to drastically reduce coal and fuel burning much more critical. The days of expansionism in all fields of endeavour have to end.

How we can do this when most people, like the everyday farmer we spoke of earlier today, have heads in the sand, I do not know.

But our efforts in the direction of solutions instead of argument would be a good start.

 

[noco]

Agree. However the 85 odd % loss of our forests has made the ability for sufficient natural absorption of co2 impossible. The need to drastically reduce coal and fuel burning much more critical. The days of expansionism in all fields of endeavour have to end.

How we can do this when most people, like the everyday farmer we spoke of earlier today, have heads in the sand, I do not know.

But our efforts in the direction of solutions instead of argument would be a good start.

plod, I don't know where you plucked that figure of 85% from but you are way out.

Some simple research indicates a figure of around 40% and it slowing due to lots of reafforestation.

http://www.peopleandtheplanet.com/index.html@lid=27109&section=32&topic=44.html

According to the FAO Global Forest Resources Assesment 2005, the net loss in forest area at the global level during the 1990s was an estimated 94 million ha - an area larger than Venezuela and equivalent to 2.4 per cent of the world's total forests. This was a combination of an annual loss of 12.5 million ha of natural forests and an annual gain of 3.1 million ha in the form of forest plantations (see map below for details).

The 2005 FAO Assessment said that between 2000-2005, the world suffered a net loss of a further 37 million hectares (91 million acres) of forest.

Nearly 4 billion hectares of forest cover the earth's surface, roughly 30 per cent of its total land area. Though extensive, the world's forests have shrunk by some 40 per cent since agriculture began 11,000 years ago. Three-quarters of this loss occurred in the last two centuries as land was cleared to make way for farms and to meet demand for wood.

 

[Smurf1976]

While rain pattern is noted it not established what factors are involved.

Runoff (as distinct from rainfall although the two are related) in to Perth's water catchments underwent a very sudden and seemingly permanent step change downward. I won't claim to know the reasons, but it wasn't a gradual change, it was a very sudden "someone flicked a switch" type of change.

With less severity a similar pattern exists in Tasmania and the dates roughly align with those in WA. A change down about 1976 and another one in 1997. It still rains, we still get above average years at times, but the basic pattern is that high runoff years have become far less common. So whereas it used to be some years were dry, some close to average and some wet, now it's mostly either dry or close to the average, wet years (significantly above average runoff) have almost disappeared.

It's publicly disclosed that Hydro Tas has been working on an assumption of future system inflows 15% below the long term 20th Century average for planning purposes, this being the second time the system has been de-rated in response to changing rainfall patterns. Also $$$ has been spend on all sorts of measures, each of them individually small, aiming to ultimately claw back about two thirds of what has been lost. Cloud seeding, ultra slippery linings on canals to increase ability to transfer flood waters when it does rain hard, new turbine runners, diverting various small creeks into existing storages and so on. All quite small individually but collectively aiming to get inflows back up to 95% of what was previously expected (getting back to 100% isn't feasible under the current financial and political climate).

Another issue is the pattern of runoff as distinct from the total. In short, most of that 15% reduction in Tas has occurred during the Summer and Autumn period with either a small increase or no change (depending on catchment) in Winter and Spring. That's not a problem at, for example, Great Lake or Lake Gordon since storage capacity holds several years' worth of inflows. It is however a problem where the storage capacity is much smaller, the height of dams being limited by topography, and also it's a problem for others such as farmers and town water supply where storage dams are much smaller than those associated with power generation. In that case, even if the overall 15% loss can be dealt with, there's another problem of running out of water in Autumn then having too much by Spring which goes down the spillway. There are workarounds but things like raising the height of dams doesn't come cheaply (though the idea is under consideration in one particular case).

Perth's water and Tasmania's electricity are both examples of real impacts of a changing climate which first resulted in either actual supply shortfalls (Perth) or a number of serious near-miss incidents (Tas) and ultimately the spending of big $ to maintain supply of water and electricity. Whether or not that has anything to do with CO2 I won't claim to know, but there has been a definite shift in runoff that is beyond doubt.