Punish the poor, reward the rich!

[SirRumpole]

If you’re a tradie and need a start after 9am each day due to family responsibilities then good luck. Hard to believe though it is, even in 2018 there’s still an awful lot of employers with rigid hours that aren’t at all family friendly.

I might also add that the construction industry has a disturbing record of deaths in the workplace and while some of the union leaders in that industry might be malcontents out to cause trouble safety should come first in any workplace and without those unions there may be even more deaths and injuries.

 

[PZ99]

All workers are good and all employers are bad?

Who is making these ridiculous assumptions?

People get sacked all the time at my workplace, stealing, DNA, bullying. Nothing new there.

 

[PZ99]

Well the CEO I mentioned earlier, came from the poorest area of Perth, left school at 15 and did an apprenticeship. So where you come from has less impact than you think, everyone is looking for a reason to excuse poor application and performance.
But like I said that is Australia at the moment, we are sliding down the slope and everyone is making excuses for not putting on the brakes and demanding better. IMO

Yeah, I do occasionally see these happy stories about people with a poor background reaching the top of the corporate ladder or some other success. The media are always looking for exceptions to make the rest of us feel good

 

[sptrawler]

Yeah, I do occasionally see these happy stories about people with a poor background reaching the top of the corporate ladder or some other success. The media are always looking for exceptions to make the rest of us feel good

He is seen very little in the media, I had to google his name to find anything, so that isn't the case.
He was just a hard working, level headed get on with it sort of person.
I haven't talked to him in 40years, but when this topic came up, I thought I would google his name. As I thought he has done extremely well for himself.
From my perspective, I came from England as an 8 year old, went to one primary school to grade 7.
After that we moved a lot, I did year 8 by correspondence in the NW of W.A, year 9 in Bunbury and year 10 in Kalgoorlie.
I have found Australia to be the land of opportunity and contradiction.
I was told poms were just whingers, but I have found Aussie's to be the worst whingers in the World, with the least to whinge about.

 

[Darc Knight]

Yeah, I do occasionally see these happy stories about people with a poor background reaching the top of the corporate ladder or some other success. The media are always looking for exceptions to make the rest of us feel good

"Parable of the lucky git" Delboy calls them

Some people just haven't got the IQ, physical abilities/health, emotional stability, reasonable upbringing etc and spend a lot of their early adult years and even lives just battling to keep up, let alone becoming CEOs.

 

[sptrawler]

All workers are good and all employers are bad?

Who is making these ridiculous assumptions?
.

Most large employers don't care about your work ethic. They just want to maximise their profits by paying you the least amount they can get away with.

I think you will find, you said that.
The posts since then, address that aspersion, but I can tell it is pointless.

 

[PZ99]

Most large employers don't care about your work ethic. They just want to maximise their profits by paying you the least amount they can get away with.

I think you will find, you said that.
The posts since then, address that aspersion, but I can tell it is pointless.

I think that is a huge call to compare:

"Most large employers don't care about your work ethic" with
"All workers are good and all employers are bad" and suggest it's the same statement.

But that's your call, you're entitled to it.

NAB are letting 7000 people go to replace them with technology. They obviously aren't putting profits before people. They are a very good employer. Just ask 'em

 

[sptrawler]

That is a big call to compare

"Most large employers don't care about your work ethic" with
"All workers are good and all employers are bad" and suggest it's the same statement.

But that's your call, you're entitled to it.

NAB are letting 7000 people go to replace them with technology. They obviously aren't putting profits before people. They are a very good employer. Just ask 'em

Yes and they are going to be in a lot of $hite, for lending money to people begging to get into the housing market, as a lot of people on here were complaining about.
Now as the housing market turns down, everyone starts complaining, about why they gave them a loan.
Like I said, no one takes on responsibility anymore, the loony left has made the go to excuse they made me, they didn't give me the opportunity, I couldn't help myself.
It's about time Australia got back to its roots and FFing got on with doing a FFing job and doing it well, rather than looking for the next muzbuz coffee outlet. IMO
Otherwise google Brazil and study up, because that's where it will end, l'm retired so I don't give a ratz.
But hey the grandkids that live with me, they are learning mandarin, the 8 year old is doing really well, the 3 year old is still struggling with English.
As for your struggle in the factory, unless you are the shop steward, with an opportunity to further yourself in the union or ALP.
Just move onto something else.

 

[PZ99]

Yes and they are going to be in a lot of $hite, for lending money to people begging to get into the housing market, as a lot of people on here were complaining about.
Now as the housing market turns down, everyone starts complaining, about why they gave them a loan.
Like I said, no one takes on responsibility anymore, the loony left has made the go to excuse they made me, they didn't give me the opportunity, I couldn't help myself.
It's about time Australia got back to its roots and FFing got on with doing a FFing job and doing it well, rather than looking for the next muzbuz coffee outlet. IMO
Otherwise google Brazil and study up, because that's where it will end, l'm retired so I don't give a ratz.
But hey the grandkids that live with me, they are learning mandarin, the 8 year old is doing really well, the 3 year old is still struggling with English.
As for your struggle in the factory, unless you are the shop steward, with an opportunity to further yourself in the union or ALP.
Just move onto something else.

I'm not struggling in the factory but even if I was, why should I leave after years of service to then go and start from the bottom again somewhere else? I think that's a common failing in these arguments from the tawdry right.. "If you don't like your job, leave"... why should they leave if the employer is doing the wrong thing? It's a massive cop-out IMO.

 

[sptrawler]

I'm not struggling in the factory but even if I was, why should I leave after years of service to then go and start from the bottom again somewhere else? I think that's a common failing in these arguments from the tawdry right.. "If you don't like your job, leave"... why should they leave if the employer is doing the wrong thing? It's a massive cop-out IMO.

Maybe the factory has moved on, and your living in a past dimension that the factory can no longer survive in?
I have a really really close relative, that gets in more $hit than Ned Kelly, I've bailed him out endlessly.
We finally got him through an apprenticeship at 33, but he still wanted to suck on the ffing pipe, so we gave up.
Now at 38 he has found something he wants to do, and has finally got his life on track, thank ffk.
I would never have guessed it was his thing, he wants to be a chef, WTF bikie to chef? Go figure.
I guess what I'm saying is that technology is changing, jobs are changing, companies are changing.
If it isn't your bag, it won't stop the change, just alienate you, maybe just change streams.
Sorry about the language, but it was a really difficult part of my life, not saying that this part is any easier, add to that silly Billy and it turns to $hit again.

 

[PZ99]

Maybe the factory has moved on, and your living in a past dimension that the factory can no longer survive in?
I have a really really close relative, that gets in more $hit than Ned Kelly, I've bailed him out endlessly.
We finally got him through an apprenticeship at 33, but he still wanted to suck on the ffing pipe, so we gave up.
Now at 38 he has found something he wants to do, and has finally got his life on track, thank ffk.
I would never have guessed it was his thing, he wants to be a chef, WTF bikie to chef? Go figure.

My past dimension was lifters were rewarded and leaners were not. These days it seems to be the other way around as arselickers and climbers become more numerous. It's much easier to attain a higher KPI by abusing your good workers and handing non important cooshy jobs to the bludgers. I wouldn't describe that form of corruption as survivable. Regressive yes, moving on? No.

 

[Smurf1976]

All this makes the assumption that all workers are good and just want to help the employer, I have had several instances of workers that take great joy, in causing mayhem in the workplace

Been there, seen that and I do agree that such workers ought to be dealt with.

But then the only time I’ve experienced outright demarcation it came from management not workers or a union, both of whom opposed it.

Cost them a fortune but it was all about controlling individuals not about maximising profit.

 

[sptrawler]

My past dimension was lifters were rewarded and leaners were not. These days it seems to be the other way around as arselickers and climbers become more numerous. It's much easier to attain a higher KPI by abusing your good workers and handing non important cooshy jobs to the bludgers. I wouldn't describe that form of corruption as survivable. Regressive yes, moving on? No.

That is happening where my best mate works.
Their job, pick up waste, be that green waste or white waste.
One of the best workers, had a bad demeanour, he would tell the workers who came in with light load trucks, they weren't pulling their weight.
One of the guys claimed bullying, was given 3 months paid time off and a payout, the operator was removed from the section and transferred to another section.
The fallout:
The one accused of bullying has been promoted.
The person being bullied, was paid out a big payout, and now works in another Council doing the same job.
My mate now has to train up new operators, and it is stressing the $hit out of him.
My position, I'm a rate payer, who has seen my rates go up by 50% in the last two years and can say ffk all because I would get my mate in the $hit.
Like I said Australia is going down $hit river without a paddle. IMO

 

[Smurf1976]

These days it seems to be the other way around as arselickers and climbers become more numerous. It's much easier to attain a higher KPI by abusing your good workers and handing non important cooshy jobs to the bludgers.

You’ve explained it far better than me - that’s exactly what was going on in the situation I’m referring to.

I was the fool doing rather a lot of the proverbial lifting. Silly me was naive enough at the time to think hard work is always rewarded. Oh no it isn’t.

That’s what a lot of it comes down to really. There are people running businesses who reward their employees for high performance. That’s great but what they’re missing is that doing so is becoming less common and these days in many cases the path to promotion involves doing less not more.

 

[PZ99]

That is happening where my best mate works.
Their job, pick up waste, be that green waste or white waste.
One of the best workers, had a bad demeanour, he would tell the workers who came in with light load trucks, they weren't pulling their weight.
One of the guys claimed bullying, was given 3 months paid time off and a payout, the operator was removed from the section and transferred to another section.
The fallout:
The one accused of bullying has been promoted.
The person being bullied, was paid out a big payout, and now works in another Council doing the same job.
My mate now has to train up new operators, and it is stressing the $hit out of him.
My position, I'm a rate payer, who has seen my rates go up by 50% in the last two years and can say ffk all because I would get my mate in the $hit.
Like I said Australia is going down $hit river without a paddle. IMO

I agree. Which is why I'm opposed to dismantling everything that's good about Australia and replacing it with everything that's bad about America in the area of workplace relations.

 

[sptrawler]

Been there, seen that and I do agree that such workers ought to be dealt with.

But then the only time I’ve experienced outright demarcation it came from management not workers or a union, both of whom opposed it.

Cost them a fortune but it was all about controlling individuals not about maximising profit.

I was in the unfortunate position of having a tradesman, urinating on workers below him in a PS, because he didn't like the job he was given.
Another time, I've had to front up to the manager to explain why I gave employees permission to have a beer, instead of deserts. They were installing diesel a genset in 45deg temps, at Wiluna. I had jarred one of the guys for sub standard work, and it was pay back.
Well the guy's, were never allowed to have a beer, instead of desert after that reaming. Just an absolute FW.
I guess , I'm old school, if you do your best you deserve recognition. Nowaday's it appears if you turn up, you need a ffgn medal. It doesn't bode well for Australia. IMO

Anyway, I've probably said my piece, I'll give the floor back to the back patters and say nothing more.
Unless someone really annoy's me. lol

 

[sptrawler]

You’ve explained it far better than me - that’s exactly what was going on in the situation I’m referring to.

I was the fool doing rather a lot of the proverbial lifting. Silly me was naive enough at the time to think hard work is always rewarded. Oh no it isn’t.
.

So what did you do, you finally woke up and moved on. Jeez that was someone else's fault, or your fault for not wanting to step out of your comfort zone?
Now you've taken the big step, take it by the balls and show what you've got, you have a great grasp of system flow and what is required.
The National grid needs hands on people that can see both sides of the equation, your in S.A, go to your local member and tell them how the FFk it works.
Then we will have a poster in a high position, FFS the hardest thing about a job is getting it, you should have thought about if you can do it before you applied.

 

[Smurf1976]

I'm old school, if you do your best you deserve recognition. Nowaday's it appears if you turn up, you need a ffgn medal

We’re on a pretty similar page.

Only real difference I think is that I’ve encountered worse attitude from a manager than I’ve ever seen from workers hence my comments.

Fully understood that those who have seen trouble originating from the workers will have a different perspective.

My personal view is about getting on with it. If there’s a problem then fix it, I’m not at all keen on demarcation, threats, strikes and so on. Fix the problem and get the job done.

 

[Smurf1976]

So what did you do, you finally woke up and moved on.

As a formal stafement I wish to clarify that the dud manager I am referring to is not, and to my knowledge has never been, employed by an electricity generation business either government owned or private.

The incidents I have referred to occurred quite some time ago in a workplace which involves electrical work but which does not own or operate power stations.

That I am now doing something else and living in SA is not related to this incident.

 

[sptrawler]

We’re on a pretty similar page.

Only real difference I think is that I’ve encountered worse attitude from a manager than I’ve ever seen from workers hence my comments.

Fully understood that those who have seen trouble originating from the workers will have a different perspective.

My personal view is about getting on with it. If there’s a problem then fix it, I’m not at all keen on demarcation, threats, strikes and so on. Fix the problem and get the job done.

The problem these days smurph, because of social media, everyone is a genius, they haven't been through both sides of the system and the left has the ear of the public.
Which will stay that way, untill it all turns to $hit.
Then they all turn around and say, Jeez it wasn't meant to be like this, I pay tax , I pay rates, I pay.;
FIX IT.
Australia is in a really bad place at the moment, we have a unrealistic push to renewables, we have a massive retraction of manufacturing, and we have a population that just have an unabated want.
I just can't see how all the variables can be met.