This is a mobile optimized page that loads fast, if you want to load the real page, click this text.

Military strike on Iran

Military strike on Iran?

  • Yes

    Votes: 36 27.7%

  • No

    Votes: 94 72.3%
  • Total voters
    130
Jump to new
Superfly said:
So... so what... just more of the same, Iran stalling for time..talks about talks about talks...

Those lastest Israeli military excerises must be causing some sleepness nights for Ahmadinejad and the Mullahs...
Click to expand...

Thank God you're not in any position of authority superfly
In fact thank God you're not even in the army (I assume that's the case - most of you armchair generals are not and never have been)

These days our soldiers have a sense of responsibility first and foremost -
and believe it or not (as we've just done in Iraq - now that we have withdrawn) they try to WHAM "win the hearts and minds" first rather than your shoot-em-up john-wayne-high-noon stuff.

The leaders of our troops just returned have said how much better we do it than the American GI's. No better example than East Timor.
 
Superfly said:
Coming from someone who stated that "all school children" should have to watch M Moore films...
Click to expand...

superfly
Can I suggest that you post with more care.

Whenever you leave

"[Q UOTE=2020hindsight;311348]"
without a
"[/Q UOTE] at the end to balance it,

then the post, when someone refers to it, will show up as mine.

The result?
Note how the top of this post says that I posted what YOU said.

let's call it attention to detail shall we.
 
kennas said:
China have no moral position in the world after what they have done in Sudan. They are just the same as the US, using their strength to secure resources and security for themselves while being complicit in the destruction of other peoples.
Click to expand...

The difference is, China does not sponsor coups and assassinations, they do not threaten governments with sanctions. They do not intervene with politics under the claim that they are do-gooder, humanitarian peace keepers. They just sign the resource contracts.
 

No.. China just supports North Korea, supported Pol Pot which lead to one of the worst 3 years in modern history for any counrty, all courtesy of China, China supports Burma, China has no leg to stand on with human rights. Where did Pol Pots army get their weapons ?... from China and lots of them, that is sponsoring coups and it cost over a quarter of the population their lives takes care of the assassinations part. What about the democarcy protesters that are still in jail from 1989 in Tianamen square, the ones that were not shot or run over by tanks of the PLR...

So China does not threaten Taiwan ???..



From a web page...

Ding Zilin, who lost her 17-year-old son in the 1989 massacre, pulled herself out of her despair by taking action to seek justice. For the last fifteen years, she has been at the forefront of a network of people who have worked to document the brutal crackdown in a systematic fashion by collecting the names of real victims and recording their individual stories. For this, she has been subjected to persistent persecution - she has endured interrogations, threats of violence, a period of detention and frequent house arrest, but she refuses to give up her fight.

Click here to read her testimony and those of other mothers.

Under the banner of the Tiananmen Mothers, a group of courageous family members of victims of the Beijing massacre has banded together to challenge the official claims about what really happened. Those in this network provide support to each other and work together to gather information about what really happened in those tragic days at the beginning of June. In addition, they collect and distribute humanitarian funds donated to assist the injured and the families of the dead.

The efforts of the Mothers have been met with persecution from the Chinese government. Their repeated requests for dialogue with the government and for a proper investigation of the events have been met with stony silence. Yet the Mothers have refused to give up their fight against the cycle of impunity that has allowed perpetrators of gross violations of human rights in China to go unpunished again and again. Their demands for accountability have been joined by other calls and open letters, including Dr. Jiang Yanyong.


The Story of the Bouquet

Years after the massacre, a student who participated in the 1989 demonstrations posted a message on the Internet explaining her ritual of gathering a June Fourth bouquet (six white roses and four red roses) to mark each anniversary. Her dream is to place such a bouquet in Tiananmen Square, publicly commemorating the massacre victims without danger of government reprisal. Until that time comes, FillTheSquare.org allows all supporters to realize this dream in cyberspace.


China.... and they give the murderers the Olympics !!
 
Some light reading for you Juw177...!!


From Times OnlineJune 3, 2004

What happened to the student heroes of Tianamen?
Fifteen years ago the world recoiled at images of China's brutal crushing of student protest. The Chinese put 21 of the leaders on a most wanted list. Some are still defiant, others have fled the country, most pursue studies and careers in the US
By Oliver August and Sophie Roell
IN THE TERRIFYING days after the crackdown, Wang Dan, No 1 on China’s Most Wanted list, was shunted out of Beijing by his friend Wang Juntao. Dan was incapable of sleep and was losing his self-control. Unable to stand life on the run, he returned to Beijing and was immediately arrested. He spent most of his twenties in jail, a strange fate for the earnest history student whose “crime” had been to organise a democracy salon in 1988, inviting guest speakers to speak once a week (the US Ambassador came once) and editing a magazine not contentious by any standards other than those of the Chinese Government.
But in the end the “most wanted” epithet helped him by making him the most high-profile political prisoner in the country. In 1998 he was allowed out to the US on medical parole, part of negotiations that accompanied Bill Clinton’s visit to China that year. Even in prison he received special care, normally having a cell to himself. “I’m not joking,” he says, “I enjoyed life in jail quite a bit ”” because I had time to read and they treated me well.” What he is bitter about is his mother, who received the more usual Chinese prison treatment. She still does not walk normally as a result of the 50 days she spent squashed in a crowded cell. “They treated her much worse than me, because I was famous and she wasn’t. My mother did nothing: she was arrested just because she was my mother.”

In a way, he has taken up life where he left off in 1989: he is a PhD student at Harvard, studying history again. His main goal now is to get Beijing to allow back to China the dozens of people exiled for their role in the 1989 movement. He hopes that the UN and Western governments will put pressure on Beijing.

THE UNKNOWN

One image from the student protest dominates the history books. A lone man walks on to Beijing’s main thoroughfare in broad daylight on June 5 as a column of tanks advances into the city centre. He is holding a plastic bag and stands still in the middle of the road. The tanks halt and eventually try to pass him on the side, but he moves with them. After several agonising minutes, another man hurries him off the road. All of it was filmed by a TV camera on a building high above. Kate Adie reported the event that night on the BBC’s Nine O’Clock News and newspapers around the world carried his picture the next day.

The mystery man was never identified, despite becoming a global poster boy for human courage. He might simply have slipped back into the crowds around Tiananmen Square, or he might not. He could still be working in a factory in Beijing making slippers or bicycles. Or he could be in a labour camp. Meanwhile, he has appeared in a Wim Wenders film, been lionised by presidents and pressed on to T-shirts. Time magazine proclaimed him one of the 20th century’s top 20 leaders and revolutionaries, along with Mao Zedong. The Chinese Government has cited the fact that the man was not run over by the lead tank as an example of how carefully the army proceeded. Eyewitnesses, however, say that away from the cameras plenty of tanks squashed protesters.

THE IDEALIST

“I went to the US three months ago, directly from jail,” says Wang Youcai. He was a graduate student in physics in 1989, and the ghastly events of June 4 prompted him to abandon everything to set up the Opposition China Democracy Party.

“Our goal was to institutionalise a multi-party system,” says Wang. “It was a peaceful, reasonable, open and moderate platform that did not directly challenge the top Chinese Communist Party leaders. I want China to become a true democracy, so that a tragedy like 1989 will never, ever happen again.”

He is a visiting scholar at Harvard University for the year. Of his feelings in 1989, he has little recollection. “Maybe when China becomes a democracy I’ll be able to speak about it.”

THE STEADFAST

Five of the Top 21 Tiananmen Square leaders still live in China. Ma Shaofang is one of them. He decided to stay despite harassment by the authorities and the unexplained death of a university friend in police custody. “I didn’t want to leave because I would become a stranger to China and could not see the changes in society,” he says.

Fear of the unknown was another reason to stay. “I can’t speak English and think I would have a terrible life in America. Anyway, I love China. I may not love the Communist Party or socialism, but I very much love the land where I grew up.” After his arrest in 1989 he spent three years in prison for counter-revolutionary activities, an experience that scarred his health but has not dented his political convictions, even if he sees little reason to be optimistic. “The tanks crushed the hopes of the Chinese nations,” he said. “Few people dare to mention June 4 but it is deep in their hearts.” Ma will hold a one-day hunger strike as he has done every anniversary since he left prison. But he will do so alone. He is no longer in contact with other protesters.
 
Israel has been doing some fence mending in recent weeks with neighbours such as Eygpt, Hezbollah ( prisoner release / exchange )... maybe for the fact that if a strick on Iran goes ahead, Iran could / may retaliate by the ****e insurgents it has trained and armed in Iraq, by Hezbollah, Syria and by trying a bring together the Arab world. The first strike maybe easier than a second or third, as Arab nations may ban Israeli aircraft from their airspace needed to get to Iran.
 
May 5th 2008...

Militants from the Lebanese group Hezbollah have been training Iraqi militia fighters at a camp near Tehran, according to American interrogation reports that the United States has supplied to the Iraqi government.
An American official said the account of Hezbollah’s role was provided by four Shiite militia members who were captured in Iraq late last year and questioned separately…
In a possible effort to be less obtrusive, it appears that Iran is now bringing small groups of Iraqi Shiite militants to camps in Iran, where they are taught how to do their own training, American officials say.
The militants then return to Iraq to teach comrades how to fire rockets and mortars, fight as snipers or assemble explosively formed penetrators, a particularly lethal type of roadside bomb made of Iranian components, according to American officials. The officials describe this approach as “training the trainers.”
The training, the Americans say, is carried out at several camps near Tehran that are overseen by the Quds Force of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Command, and the instruction is carried out by militants from Hezbollah, which has long been supported by the Quds Force.
 
Words don`t feel the pain of a bullet ripping into flesh, words don`t feel the searing heat and choking lungs from a napalm explosion, words don`t feel the pain of mother with limp child, words don`t feel anger of the sight of dead friends, words don`t feel the fear of each day.

Words don`t feel what it`s like to kill another human being.

Get it!!!
 
The Sunday Times May 4, 2008

United States is drawing up plans to strike on Iranian insurgency camp

The US military is drawing up plans for a “surgical strike” against an insurgent training camp inside Iran if Republican Guards continue with attempts to destabilise Iraq, western intelligence sources said last week. One source said the Americans were growing increasingly angry at the involvement of the Guards’ special-operations Quds force inside Iraq, training Shi’ite militias and smuggling weapons into the country.

Despite a belligerent stance by Vice-President Dick Cheney, the administration has put plans for an attack on Iran’s nuclear facilities on the back burner since Robert Gates replaced Donald Rumsfeld as defence secretary in 2006, the sources said.

However, US commanders are increasingly concerned by Iranian interference in Iraq and are determined that recent successes by joint Iraqi and US forces in the southern port city of Basra should not be reversed by the Quds Force.

“If the situation in Basra goes back to what it was like before, America is likely to blame Iran and carry out a surgical strike on a militant training camp across the border in Khuzestan,” said one source, referring to a frontier province.

They acknowledged Iran was unlikely to cease involvement in Iraq and that, however limited a US attack might be, the fighting could escalate.

Although American defence chiefs are firmly opposed to any attack on Iranian nuclear facilities, they believe a raid on one of the camps training Shi’ite militiamen would deliver a powerful message to Tehran.

British officials believe the US military tends to overestimate the effect of the Iranian involvement in Iraq.

But they say there is little doubt that the Revolutionary Guard exercises significant influence over splinter groups of the radical cleric Moqtada al-Sadr’s Mahdi Army, who were the main targets of recent operations in Basra.

The CBS television network reported last week that plans were being drawn up for an attack on Iran, citing an officer who blamed the “increasingly hostile role” Iran was playing in Iraq.

The American news reports were unclear about the precise target of such an action and referred to Iran’s nuclear facilities as the likely objective.

According to the intelligence sources there will not be an attack on Iran’s nuclear capacity. “The Pentagon is not keen on that at all. If an attack happens it will be on a training camp to send a clear message to Iran not to interfere.”

President George W Bush is known to be determined that he should not hand over what he sees as “the Iran problem” to his successor. A limited attack on a training camp may give an impression of tough action, while at the same time being something that both Gates and the US commander in Iraq, General David Petraeus, could accept.
 

... how many western troops are being killed due to Iran backing the unrest in Iraq...

Lets hope that Iran comes clean and PROVES that is not going nuclear, and stops backing the trouble in Iraq...

......"Words dont feel what it would be like" if Iran engulfed the whole region in war though Syria, Hezbollah and in Iraq.... get it !!!
 
From The Sunday Times July 6, 2008

Al-Qaeda was also bleeding support as allied Iraqi insurgents accepted an amnesty. It did not apply to Al-Qaeda. “If you are fighting to install sharia [Islamic law] on this country, you are going to have to be killed,” said Colonel David Brown, an American adviser to 2nd Division. WITH its supply lines disrupted, Al-Qaeda is increasingly turning to extortion and kidnapping, further alienating the population.

In the past week, as the weapons finds slowed to a trickle and the attacks declined to just 13, Americans and Iraqis alike were elated but not complacent. A car bomb that killed 18 people and wounded 80 in Mosul 10 days ago served as a reminder that the enemy has yet to be eliminated.

Nevertheless, the speed of Al-Qaeda’s decline in Iraq – not only in the north but throughout the country – has taken many military strategists and observers by surprise.

In Zarqawi’s day, a ruthless campaign of suicide bombings, abductions and beheadings paralysed the country and thwarted US efforts to pacify it. By the end of 2006 some were predicting an American defeat.

The reversal of fortunes is attributed to the “surge” strategy of General David Petraeus, the commander of US forces, who targeted Al-Qaeda in Iraq above all else after securing an extra 30,000 troops last year.

His officers exploited local resentment of the terrorists and promised to protect those who resisted them. Under Petraeus’s plan, they established awakening councils, or groups calling themselves concerned local citizens. These Sunni groups helped to drive Al-Qaeda from many of its bastions.

US and Iraqi forces were then able to retake large swathes of the country and complete the “clearing” of cities such as Ramadi and Falluja and large areas of Baghdad. The overall number of attacks in Iraq has fallen by 80% in the past year alone.
The signs this weekend were positive. Major Erich Campbell, operations officer for the US advisers, said: “Earlier this year we could have gone down the street waving fistfuls of dollars in the air.

“We couldn’t buy anything. Iraqis told us, ‘If we sell to you, we will be killed’. Now we can buy things from shops.”

The last word was left to the beleaguered people of Mosul. Sa’ad Aziz, 47, stood in his shop, with ice-cream in the freezer and fizzy drinks and sweets on the shelves, watching the search for the Zanjali bomb in virtual darkness because there was no electricity.

His concerns were far removed from Al-Qaeda’s jihad: “We have only two hours of electricity out of 10. I need it for my business. There is only a little water in this area. We need jobs. My son has a university degree but he has no wok. We’re all very tired of this insurgency.”
 
( some of a ) Report from Soldier to his Dad from Camp "Blue Diamond" near Ramadi

Who Are The Bad Guys ?

Most enter Iraq through Syria with the knowledge and complicity of the Syrian government, and then travel down the “rat line†which is the trail of towns along the Euphrates River that we've been hitting hard for the last few months.

Some are virtually untrained young Jihadis that often end up as suicide bombers or in “sacrifice squads.†Most, however, are hard core terrorists from all the usual suspects (Al Qaeda, Hezbollah, Hamas, etc.) These are the guys running around murdering civilians en masse and cutting heads off.

In the Baghdad area and south, most of the insurgents are Iranian inspired (and led) Iraqi Shiites. The Iranian Shiia have been very adept at infiltrating the Iraqi local governments, police forces and military. The have had a massive spy and agitator network there since the Iran-Iraq war in the early 80's. Most of the Saddam “Baathist†loyalists were killed, captured or gave up long ago.
Morale among our guys is very high. We not only believe we are winning, but that we are winning decisively.

Our guys are stunned and dismayed by what they see in the American press, whom they almost universally view as against them. The embedded reporters are despised and distrusted. We are inflicting casualties at a rate of 25-1 and then see garbage like “Are we losing in Iraq?†on TV and the print media. The ultimate bottom line is the enemy death toll. So far we have killed around 50,000. From all over the Moslem world, terrorists are coming to Iraq so we can kill them. That’s why we call it Allah’s Waiting Room.
 
Part of the Dad's response:

Speaking of the Socialist Media, they are traitors of the first order along with the seditious politicians who aid and abet the enemy by disclosing military secrets and denouncing the military and the war. Lincoln suspended habeas corpus and had politicians arrested when necessary. And, I admit that my major disappointment of Bush is that he does NOT put the pedal to the metal, jail the seditious press and politicans, send another 150,000 of our best to Mesopotamia, begin using special forces to decapitate the Syrian and Iranian leadership and move full speed ahead to WIN by allowing the military to use all means they see fit to execute this war.
Ooh-Rah!


He has a good point with the media...
 
If Iraq is anything to go on .... there won't be enough doctors in the world to sort out the carnage from this "surgical strike" thingo

why don't they just admit that their military uses twice the oil that they get out these exercises....

PS I think it's called " get those war drums going fellas, McCain needs a miracle !"
 
Superfly said:
supported Pol Pot which lead to one of the worst 3 years in modern history for any counrty, all courtesy of China,
Click to expand...


Superfly,

one could easily substitute, Pol Pot with Saddam Hussien, and China with the good ole US of A.
 
And to add to the last post, who overthrew Pol Pot and installed Khmer Rouge in Cambodia?
 
Superfly said:
And, I admit that my major disappointment of Bush is that he does NOT put the pedal to the metal, jail the seditious press and politicans
Click to expand...
And when people gather to protest, why not just run over them with tanks...

The American people would never have supported going to Iraq after 9/11 without the manipulation of and by the media...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Investment implications of WW3
2 3
Replies
49
Views
4K
wayneL
Does BRICS have a viable future?
Replies
11
Views
2K
qldfrog
ARMR - Betashares Global Defence ETF
Replies
4
Views
572
Garpal Gumnut
Taiwan
2
Replies
28
Views
2K
Knobby22
Sean K Trading
11 12 13
Replies
243
Views
37K
Sean K
Menu
Log in
Register
Cookies are required to use this site. You must accept them to continue using the site. Learn more...