Military strike on Iran

[metric]

ziopedia. tread carefully. youtube (rhymes with you...).

mainstream media is an instrument used by the elite to form governments, brainwash the cattle, spread propaganda, etc. wikipedia and youtube are an extention of that...

 

[disarray]

dude at least watch the documentary before you go slagging off internet sources i linked wikipaedia because it is a summary of the documentary and i linked youtube because it is the easiest way to show it without having to download torrents from the BBC.

and i disagree with the internet being "used" by anyone. its the free-est media available to us here in the unfirewalled west and its difficult, if not impossible, to control content if people want to get to it.

 

[YOUNG_TRADER]

Superfly I just think you need to realise that there are extremists everywhere and its not fair to label the whole group ie "Muslims" as trouble makers,

ie not all Earth conscious conservationists are like Green Peace,

Not all Westerns want to bomb Iran

I'm Christian and sometimes when I hear some of the stuff that the extremist Christians preach about the end of day, well its a little scary, but that doens't mean all Christians are bible bashers

Anyway you seem pretty passionate about all this and sound like quite a "tough guy"

So why not enlist and go over there and do something about it?

I mean its easy for you to be a keyboard/internet warrior why not do something about it if you fell so strongly about it?

p.s. Just so you know the Israelis will take care of any Iranian threat

Would be nice to not take this subject seriously, but with Iran now enriching and refusing to stop enriching ever again, there are real storm clouds on the horizon...

Yes ok, will replace that with Islamic terrorist with muslim sympathizers... and because of Guantanamo these dangerous inmates can not get a lawyer and start using the law to evade being held (out of circualtion) where they can do no harm to ordinary people or until they have given up the infomation that they may hold.
Why don't you start looking at the reasons why those people are being held in the first place, not the current position they are in, D Hicks is a prime example.

The 9/11 hijackers broke no laws did nothing wrong until 9/11... !

Considering how many troops are in Iraq and the vicious cowardly attacks that these troops face day in day out in some areas of that country, the amount of crimes coming out is minor..

 

[metric]

not having a go at you at all disaray. ive read a bit about youtube and some of the content that gets pulled because it is sensitive to governments etc. also wikipedia is known to distort facts, leave out facts, etc. but a reference none the less.

 

[disarray]

also wikipedia is known to distort facts, leave out facts, etc. but a reference none the less.

for sure, but its strength is its openness. dissenting opinions can (and often do) edit their own side of the story into entries. this is excellent because it means content isn't static and theres a public ebb and flow of ideas competing with each other.

you have to use reference materials to learn about topics so you can form opinions on them, and the internet has got to be the coolest reference material ever because you can read just about every side of the story. if people are forming "bad" opinions then its their fault for not collecting information from a wide enough base, its not the fault of the CNN's or the FOXes who push their obviously biased and made-for-tv infobites. if a video is pulled from youtube it is still out there, it just needs a bit more digging to find it.

 

[derty]

well not exactly, but kinda.

The Power of Nightmares

Part 1 on Youtube

Yes that is a very interesting documentary disarray, there are three parts to it if I remember correctly.

It is interesting to see the rise of the NeoCon and the Islamic Fundamentalist movement and the similarities of the reasons for their rise.

Not sure if it is that doco or another that goes into the detail of Osama and his aims, his bankrolling of an existing group in their activities and the effect of the US and the media in naming and allowing Al Qaeda to be galvanised from a small disorganised group into what they are touted to be today.

al CIAda. its a lie. its a phanton organisation. the us invented an enemy.

I don't think metric is too far of the point there at all.

 

[Superfly]

Superfly I just think you need to realise that there are extremists everywhere and its not fair to label the whole group ie "Muslims" as trouble makers,

ie not all Earth conscious conservationists are like Green Peace,

Not all Westerns want to bomb Iran

I'm Christian and sometimes when I hear some of the stuff that the extremist Christians preach about the end of day, well its a little scary, but that doens't mean all Christians are bible bashers

Anyway you seem pretty passionate about all this and sound like quite a "tough guy"

So why not enlist and go over there and do something about it?

I mean its easy for you to be a keyboard/internet warrior why not do something about it if you fell so strongly about it?

p.s. Just so you know the Israelis will take care of any Iranian threat

Hmmmm this is becoming somewhat of a routine...

The "tough guy" part was funny, I thought that "Young Trader" was a pun, but really must be young using that line... how do you know if havent been in that part of the world and regularly,... not that I would tell you either way...


P.S.... Just to let you know that if you had read the thread you would have found that I have already said that Israel will take care of Iran.
Hope that you do better research when you do your stock comments, any chance of looking at ARX again, mate !!

 

[ithatheekret]

I think many miss the point , that it is Israel that will not allow Iran to have nuclear weapon capabilities , not the US . The US will bring out the rhetoric and sanctions care of the UN , but Israel will be the ones to strike if the UN twiddles its thumbs once more .

For an example of the underlying conflict within the UN security council , just take a look who has the chair and decide for yourselves .

An Iran with nuclear capabilities is not an option at all , it is a threat to the entire region , that threat will not be tolerated .

 

[jonojpsg]

Israel - US is there a difference? Don't Israel get all their money from Jews in the US (or who made their money there) and all their weapons from there too?

 

[disarray]

yeah the whole jewish angle is ignored because to bring it up immediately labels you racist and the thought patrol gets on your case. i'm not going to wade into the whole "jewish conspiracy" debate or even suggest there is some grand zionist plan underway, but what is very clear to me is that jews are pretty much the oldest, continuing, civilised, segregated and widely travelled race in the world. jews keep their bloodline pretty clean, i remember going out with a jewish chick and she made it clear she would only be marrying a jew.

it seems perfectly reasonable that jews were there at the formation of western societies to introduce systems and gain influence in areas like finance, politics and media. for a small population people they weild some serious global clout. if you want to research any of it though it's almost completely hosted by right wing nutter sites which unfortunately spout a lot of insane racial crap. i'd go out with a chick of any race if she was cute

 

[numbercruncher]

(CBS) A second American aircraft carrier steamed into the Persian Gulf on Tuesday as the Pentagon ordered military commanders to develop new options for attacking Iran. CBS News national security correspondent David Martin reports that the planning is being driven by what one officer called the "increasingly hostile role" Iran is playing in Iraq - smuggling weapons into Iraq for use against American troops.

"What the Iranians are doing is killing American servicemen and -women inside Iraq," said Secretary of Defense Robert Gates.

U.S. officials are also concerned by Iranian harassment of U.S. ships in the Persian Gulf as well as Iran's still growing nuclear program. New pictures of Iran's uranium enrichment plant show the country's defense minister in the background, as if deliberately mocking a recent finding by U.S. intelligence that Iran had ceased work on a nuclear weapon.

No attacks are imminent and the last thing the Pentagon wants is another war, but Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Mike Mullen has warned Iran not to assume the U.S. military can't strike.

"I have reserve capability, in particular our Navy and our Air Force so it would be a mistake to think that we are out of combat capability," Mullen said.

Targets would include everything from the plants where weapons are made to the headquarters of the organization known as the Quds Force which directs operations in Iraq. Later this week Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki is expected to confront the Iranians with evidence of their meddling and demand a halt.

If that doesn't produce results, the State Department has begun drafting an ultimatum that would tell the Iranians to knock it off - or else.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/04/29/eveningnews/main4056941.shtml?source=mostpop_story

Seems any Iran War will just be about destroying capabilities ie/ no occupation.

Something ive noticed lately and on a slightly different note is our Russian mates have been quiet as Mouses ? Not just on Iran but on everything ...

 

[So_Cynical]

I saw this joke in a war gaming forum and thought it would be
very appropriate here.

The Iranian Ambassador to the UN had just finished giving a speech, and walked out
into the lobby where he met President Bush.

They shook hands, and as they walked the Iranian said, "You know, I have just one
question about what I have seen in America."

President Bush said, "Well, anything I can do to help you, I will."

The Iranian whispered "My son watches this show Star Trek and in it there is Chekhov
who is Russian, Scotty who is Scottish, and Sulu who is Chinese, but no Arabs. My
son is very upset and doesn't understand why there aren't any Iranians on Star Trek."

President Bush laughed, leaned toward the Iranian ambassador, and whispered
back, "It's because it takes place in the future."

 

[disarray]

Something ive noticed lately and on a slightly different note is our Russian mates have been quiet as Mouses ? Not just on Iran but on everything ...

they just had a power transfer, and today they reinforced abkhazia and south ossetia which has the georgians all pissed off. they are probably just consolidating.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7377049.stm

 

[2020hindsight]

THEY'RE MAKING IT ALL UP ABOUT IRAN!!! ~Olbermann

 

[Superfly]

Israeli Airforce conducts an excerise with over 100 aircraft including refueling tankers for mock strikes the same distances as what the Iranian nuclear sites what be to attack...

and this..

In a briefing in Vienna last week, IAEA deputy director-general Olli Heinonen described as alarming the fact that a drawing in Iran's possession in 2003-04 showed how to make part of a nuclear warhead.

The IAEA report that went to the security council last week ( May 2008 ) included 18 documents indicating Iran was involved in activities not necessarily consistent with it's persistent claims that it was not seeking to develop nuclear weapons.

The IAEA is continuing to press Iran to "PROVE" that it has abandonded it's nuclear weapons ambitions.

 

[Superfly]

Do people still think that corporations and corporate funded governments care about human lives in non western countries?

They have all been following the same formula, the US are very good at it:
1. PR campaigns to rally public sympathy
2. PR campaign that an intervention will make things better
3. They go in and loot the crap out of the country while media keeps up the humanitarian intervention front.

Congo is the most extreme:
2 billion are dead as a result of keeping the western world supplied with coltan, an ore used in computer chips. But no one talks about that in the media. Instead they keep bringing up the Rwanda genocide and the endangered mountain gorillas as reason for occupation.

Sudan, Tibet and Lebanon next on the list?


Here is a bit of history for those who are still in doubt as to motives of any western intervention:
http://www.mltoday.com/Pages/Imperialism/Blum-USWars.html

Sudan !!! .. President Bush is trying to place santions on the Sudanise government because of Dafur and send in a powerful UN peace keeping force... but what country is standing in the way.. CHINA ... with 10 billion worth of investments in Sudan, basically being given a free hand to rape the Sudan resources by gifting the government, even supply high tech weapons to the Sudanise army (one of the most irresponsible arms sales in recent times ) and CHINA has demanded that the Sudan government gets to say what countries will make up any peace keeping force and what ROE they operate under. End result is a badly equipped peace keeping force, with it's hands tied with no western armies part of that peace keeping force. Innocent people still die everyday, women are getting raped, millions live in misery....this is CHINA in Africa....

 

[Sean K]

Sudan !!! .. President Bush is trying to place santions on the Sudanise government because of Dafur and send in a powerful UN peace keeping force... but what country is standing in the way.. CHINA ... with 10 billion worth of investments in Sudan, basically being given a free hand to rape the Sudan resources by gifting the government, even supply high tech weapons to the Sudanise army (one of the most irresponsible arms sales in recent times ) and CHINA has demanded that the Sudan government gets to say what countries will make up any peace keeping force and what ROE they operate under. End result is a badly equipped peace keeping force, with it's hands tied with no western armies part of that peace keeping force. Innocent people still die everyday, women are getting raped, millions live in misery....this is CHINA in Africa....

China have no moral position in the world after what they have done in Sudan. They are just the same as the US, using their strength to secure resources and security for themselves while being complicit in the destruction of other peoples. It's an outrage, but just a normal thing that we do to each other. Why hasn't the rest of the world taken action? Because it doesn't really effect us. Really, who cares about central Africa? Just a few left wing vegie munchie greenies really. And your odd celebrity feeling guilty about taking $5m to make a movie and trying to develop some good karma so they don't go to hell. Africa is a distraction really. Best we just put a fence around it drop in lots of machetes and let them go for it. But, we should take out all the resources first of course.

Humans suck.

 

[Superfly]

and this...

Iran has been negotiating the supply of Russian short range surface-to-air defence misslies, but more worrying for the Israelis and Americans are reports that Russia may be considering supplying it's longer range S-300 anti-aircraft systems that would dramatically raise the cost of air strikes.

Getting in before the deployment of new air defence systems would not be the least compelling arguement for pre-emptive strikes.

 

[2020hindsight]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/07/05/2295250.htm?section=justin

Iran responds to world powers' nuclear offer
Posted 5 hours 31 minutes ago

Iran has responded to an incentives package offered by six world powers aimed at resolving a stand-off over its disputed nuclear ambitions.

There was no word on the content of Iran's reply - submitted to EU foreign policy chief Javier Solana - to the offer of talks on economic and other benefits if Tehran halts nuclear work the West suspects is aimed at making bombs.

Iran's chief nuclear negotiator, Saeed Jalili, told Mr Solana by telephone that Tehran had prepared its response by concentrating on common ground between the two sides and with a "constructive and creative outlook".

The two agreed to hold further discussions later this month, Iranian state radio said.

Iran's official IRNA news agency said the country's ambassador to Brussels presented its reply to Mr Solana, whose office later confirmed it had received it.

The offer of trade and other incentives proposed by the United States, China, Russia, Germany, Britain and France was presented to Iran by Mr Solana last month. etc

 

[Superfly]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/07/05/2295250.htm?section=justin

So... so what... just more of the same, Iran stalling for time..talks about talks about talks...

Those lastest Israeli military excerises must be causing some sleepness nights for Ahmadinejad and the Mullahs...