Israel in the Gaza Strip

numbercruncher said:

You justify (falsely) Israel not needing America because of a couple of Jewish background scientists - ? are they going to take out the Terrorists with stethoscopes and pens or something ?

Last time I looked Israels entire military machine is US made .....

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israel does accept help from america, it buys weapons from america and that is why it is probably the 4th most powerful military in the world. just to put it into perspective, it has an airforce 12 or 13 times larger then australia and more advanced. whilst australia has about 60 modern tanks israel has over 3,000.

israel is supplied by the US because its is cheaper and more practical. the US knows if it cut off sales and funding, israel would either make everything itself and find alternative funding.

top 5 jewish businessmen in USA have more money than lebanon, palestine, syria and egypt have foreign reserves put together.

jewish scientists, which you ridicule, are the ones that allow israel to bomb the palestinians at will with no casualties.

jewish scientists, have manufactured the markava tank, anit aircraft and anti missile defence systems, nuclear fission, the list goes on. surrounding countries cant even manufacture a car or a motorbike.

therefore relying on the US is nto the same as NEEDING the US. whilst witht he US israel is the worlds 4th military power, without the US it is the worlds 10th military power. still enough to defend against all the arabs combined.

they did it totally alone on 1948. they'll do it again i am sure.

israel attacking the gaza is good for the arab oil traders.

good posts gg agree totally..imo the likes of hamas need to be crushed before any hope of peace...also this skirmish is but a warm up to israel v iran...

there is no way the israeli's will stand by & watch the iranians make a bomb to threaten israel...tb

Garpal Gumnut said:

This mess will only be fixed militarily.

The Israelis may need to push the Arabs right out of Palestine completely and close the borders to protect themselves.

gg

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Garpal Gumnut said:

Agree totally.

These godbotherers believe that they'll get to heaven by blowing themselves and innocents up. Look what happened in Mumbai a few weeks ago.

They don't listen to peace overtures.

They are tribal untrustworthy bastards living with a 7th Century AD mindset.

I'd support Israel in this one.

gg

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Garpal Gumnut said:

Israel had good intelligence as to where to inflict the most damage on combatants.

Thats why they win 98% of stouches with the Arabs.

Good weapons, and good intelligence from turncoats amongst the Arabs, won this round Uncle.

gg

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Garpal Gumnut said:

I can't see why they can't go to Jordan to live and leave the area to the Israelis.

The whole area with the industry of the Israelis and the mass of Arabs in a greater Jordan would be an economic dynamite.

The problem with the Palestinians is that they have been led by hairy arsed elders for too long , who lack intelligence and vision.

gg

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Garpal Gumnut said:

Sorry to interrupt.

The UN is a corrupt organisation containing amongst others, Zimbabwe, North Korea and Canada.

Do not look to this motley crew for an answer.

Get the Arabs to move into a greater Jordan and let the industrious Israelis get on with developing the place.

gg

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Julia said:

Brad, thanks for posting Fisk's remarks. He is one journalist with integrity to go with his many years of experience.

I won't be ranked amongst the Western supporters of Israel's disproportionate attacks.

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Good for you Julia.

Do you also find it ironic that Jews have created a ghetto for another racial group, and destroying them piece meal? Do unto others...

As a person of Spanish Jew descent, I can go and claim my piece of land. I don't think I will.

I also love the fact Hamas was democratically elected, considering the US' attempts to democratise the middle east. The rest of the world didn't want Bush, but we had to deal with it. I suggest Israel do the same.

I was wondering if anyone on ASF knows the difference between Hamas, Fatah and Hezbollah?

And I dont just mean politically or religously, but what is it that actually
defines each major group as unique from each other?

GumbyLearner said:

I was wondering if anyone on ASF knows the difference between Hamas, Fatah and Hezbollah?

And I dont just mean politically or religously, but what is it that actually
defines each major group as unique from each other?

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Difference in geographic - Hezbollah is a Lebanese organisation.

Fatah was Arafat's party from memory and his passing led to its passing to Hamas. Both are Palestinian organisations.

Think all the groups are Shi'ite's but happy to be corrected on this or any of my assertions.

GumbyLearner said:

I was wondering if anyone on ASF knows the difference between Hamas, Fatah and Hezbollah?

And I dont just mean politically or religously, but what is it that actually
defines each major group as unique from each other?

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Hamas members prefer Coca cola while Fatah members like Pepsi. Hezbollah on the other hand does not like either, and think Iranian water is the solution to the world's problem.

Hamas is Islamic Sunni, Fatah is Baathist, Hezbollah is Shia.

Which makes Fatah the most acceptable to outsiders as their claim is to a nation state, not any typically religious mandate as they are secular.

GumbyLearner said:

I was wondering if anyone on ASF knows the difference between Hamas, Fatah and Hezbollah?

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I will say this that once they rid the world of infidels, they'll start killing each other.

Give Hamas what they want pls and stop this needless killing.

That'll work........yeah right

chops_a_must said:

Hamas is Islamic Sunni, Fatah is Baathist, Hezbollah is Shia.

Which makes Fatah the most acceptable to outsiders as their claim is to a nation state, not any typically religious mandate as they are secular.

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Thanks mate - knew you could be relied on to get the facts straight.

I did not realise that Fatah was secular.

mayk said:

Hamas members prefer Coca cola while Fatah members like Pepsi. Hezbollah on the other hand does not like either, and think Iranian water is the solution to the world's problem.

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I know some like their boiled eggs pointed end up, while others prefer the rounded end up. I don't know which is which, but it's a good reason for a war.

slim pickins said:

israel does accept help from america, it buys weapons from america and that is why it is probably the 4th most powerful military in the world. just to put it into perspective, it has an airforce 12 or 13 times larger then australia and more advanced. whilst australia has about 60 modern tanks israel has over 3,000.

israel is supplied by the US because its is cheaper and more practical. the US knows if it cut off sales and funding, israel would either make everything itself and find alternative funding.

top 5 jewish businessmen in USA have more money than lebanon, palestine, syria and egypt have foreign reserves put together.

jewish scientists, which you ridicule, are the ones that allow israel to bomb the palestinians at will with no casualties.

jewish scientists, have manufactured the markava tank, anit aircraft and anti missile defence systems, nuclear fission, the list goes on. surrounding countries cant even manufacture a car or a motorbike.

therefore relying on the US is nto the same as NEEDING the US. whilst witht he US israel is the worlds 4th military power, without the US it is the worlds 10th military power. still enough to defend against all the arabs combined.

they did it totally alone on 1948. they'll do it again i am sure.

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Mate, though the achievements of Jews are great and undeniable, your post here is propaganda. We all have many Jewish friends I'm sure, but I'll bet not many of those are Zionists.

And let's not forget what the Muslim world has given us... not so much recently, but in the past.

But to say that Israel does not rely on the US and/or Europe is clearly not true. It owes it's very existence to Britain and a Mandate of the League of Nations, it's military potency a result of western or western/Jewish capital that continues to this day.

The most important principle at work in Israel is both Jewish and Christian Zionism, not secular factors. The Zionists are just better and more in financial control of the propaganda game.

I don't know the answer, the Jews are there now right or wrong, but both sides are clearly being run by violent and hateful muppets. It is these that must be eradicated for any hope of peace.

chops_a_must said:

Good for you Julia.

Do you also find it ironic that Jews have created a ghetto for another racial group, and destroying them piece meal? Do unto others...

As a person of Spanish Jew descent, I can go and claim my piece of land. I don't think I will.

I also love the fact Hamas was democratically elected, considering the US' attempts to democratise the middle east. The rest of the world didn't want Bush, but we had to deal with it. I suggest Israel do the same.

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Rational words lost in the hate, as usual. Everyone ignores Fisk, as usual.

Am I supposed to be surprised? Judging from the past comments on this forum predictably made by certain predictable members, not at all. Although it is obvious there a few calmer heads here.

How did this whole most recent conflict even begin? Let's examine it. Just like examining a stock, we must take a longer term look at the "chart".

Democratic Palestnian elections, monitored by international electoral agencies. Hamas wins on the back of Palestinian anger at Fatah corruption and misrepresentation.

This is an affront neither Israel and therefore the US can stand. With the largest lobby group in the entire world (AIPAC) pushing on George Bush Jr, what will happen?

Of course they will not let it stand.

Israel immediately quarantines pay for the entire Palestinian governmental system. Teachers, hospital workers, everyone is without pay to feed their children. Not having learnt their lesson with Cpl Shalit, border roadblocks go back into enforcement spurring a whole new industry around cross border tunnels.

Condoleeza Rice bends the full force of US support for Fatah to destabilise Hamas. Tonnes of Chinese weaponry are shipped to Fatah, cash, food, intelligence all sent direct to the party who lost in a democratic election due to corruption to make sure they can destabilise the winning party.

Suddenly rocket attacks into Israel stop. Because now the Palestinians are fighting each other. Israel tightens its roadblocks after more tunnels discovered. Of course this only spurs more tunnels.

Hamas grassroots program is clearly gaining majority support. Fatah cannot leave its core support neighbourhoods, so they begin to use their US supplied support to kidnap and kill remaining Hamas supporters where they can still venture. So Hamas starts doing the same thing, taking over Fatah offices and jailing (might as well kill em) their supporters.

Before long, as we all know, both respective parties withdraw to their core support neighbourhoods (Gaza for Hamas, everywhere else for US and Israeli backed Fatah) and seal their **** off.

So how did this all get started again?

Oh yeah... AIPAC and Condoleeza Rice. Geopolitical power play. Surprise.

Here's a Jew we all (probably) respect complaining about AIPAC.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/apr/18/usa.israel

chops_a_must said:

Good for you Julia.

Do you also find it ironic that Jews have created a ghetto for another racial group, and destroying them piece meal? Do unto others...

As a person of Spanish Jew descent, I can go and claim my piece of land. I don't think I will.

I also love the fact Hamas was democratically elected, considering the US' attempts to democratise the middle east. The rest of the world didn't want Bush, but we had to deal with it. I suggest Israel do the same.

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Good post Chops... here here... you are a traitor to South Africa on the cricket thread and you should be shot for that - but I agree with your sentiments on this one.

wayne, i have great respect for you. primarily becasue of your golobal warming opinions. but i suppose we can agree to disagree on this one.

the jews want a little country in their biblical homeland. when they conquered it it was little better then deset and swamp. they have turned in into a decent place. israel is tiny, 25% smaller then the republic of macedonia!!!

the arabs have land from morocco to iran and from turkey to the indian ocean. 15 million square kilometers or something. and what have they done with it? most of it is a dump. if they take back israel, the plece will go back to being a dump.

one in 5 citizens of israel is an arab. all the street signs are in arabic an well as in hebrew. they have full political and economic rights. mid east dictatorships want to distroy this island of democracy, and as a consequence they have destroyed their own countries and impoverished their people.

to palestinians, i say leave israel alone, take what you can get, west bank + gaza + get egypt lebanon and syria to give you a bit of their land as compensation for their inability to help you in the last 60 years. if thats not enough ask the people fo dubai to build you a few artificial islands, and palestine will be an excellent country. at peace with israel.

and wayne, about half the anglo american jews that i know would fight for israel if it were in mortal danger. they might trash talk it in everyday conversation, just like aussies trash talk england, but if the nigerian army occupied england and was killing and raping english people, i bet heaps of aussies would head straight over to defend great great grandmother england.

similar thing with jews i would say

slim pickins said:

the jews want a little country in their biblical homeland. when they conquered it it was little better then deset and swamp. they have turned in into a decent place. israel is tiny, 25% smaller then the republic of macedonia!!!

the arabs have land from morocco to iran and from turkey to the indian ocean. 15 million square kilometers or something. and what have they done with it? most of it is a dump. if they take back israel, the plece will go back to being a dump.

one in 5 citizens of israel is an arab. all the street signs are in arabic an well as in hebrew. they have full political and economic rights. mid east dictatorships want to distroy this island of democracy, and as a consequence they have destroyed their own countries and impoverished their people.

to palestinians, i say leave israel alone, take what you can get, west bank + gaza + get egypt lebanon and syria to give you a bit of their land as compensation for their inability to help you in the last 60 years. if thats not enough ask the people fo dubai to build you a few artificial islands, and palestine will be an excellent country. at peace with israel.

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Makes sense...to me anyway.
Sometimes you just have to give "political correctness" the big flick and be happy with calling a spade a spade.
No winnners here I'm afraid and no end in sight either

And on the bright side Gold and Oil are up

BradK said:

Good post Chops... here here... you are a traitor to South Africa on the cricket thread and you should be shot for that - but I agree with your sentiments on this one.

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No traitor to anyone. Nothing more unwestern australian than barracking for the aussie cricket team. :

slim pickins said:

when they conquered it it was little better then deset and swamp.

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Lol wuttt???

I suggest you read about the fall of the Ottoman Empire. You clearly have no idea.

The Jewish didn't conquer a thing, apart from the British media.

Garpal Gumnut said:

Yeh it was, just wanted to see if you'd take the bait mate.

Happy New Year.

gg

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You're a stirrer aren't you Same to you.

I wonder if 60% of the worlds population were think only thoughts of peace and harmony we could impress that on the other 40%?

I'm going to do my bit!

Cheers,


CanOz

Glen48 said:

After each depression there is a large scale War....will this be the next one?

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Nobody can afford a war can they?

CanOz

no matter what side your on , nothing can justify a death of a 4 year old child.