Israel in the Gaza Strip

Gordon,
"You are clearly anti american and anti jewish."

If you only knew, who I was and who my family and friends are,
then you would be then thinking what a dumb stupid thing I have just written !

gordon2007 said:

UB, you may be a proud australian, but you type with a very strong mideast accent. You are clearly anti american and anti jewish.

You keep asking us to see both sides of a story, but yet you only ramble on about how bad israel is. You seem to think it's OK to lob 100's of missiles because they miss rate and kill rate is horrendeous.

It is not the fault of israel that hamas builds inaccurate missiles. The intent is still there, and that intent is to kill people. Maybe they would have more credibility if they sent missiles to army bases, but they instead send them to civilians.

I don't think too many people in this thread think israel is 100% innocent in this war. However, you make it sound as though it is all israel's fault. Perhaps if you gave factual evidence, instead of angry bantor, your thoughts would come out a bit more clearer and maybe not seem so one sided.

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Its now official mates, all muslims are enjoined in the fight against Israel.

And they say the Crusades were a waste of time and effort!!

http://uk.reuters.com/article/oilRpt/idUKHOS84274820081228?sp=true


gg

Garpal Gumnut said:

Sorry to interrupt.

The UN is a corrupt organisation containing ....... Canada.

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i hope that was tongue in cheek mate.

CanOz

CanOz said:

i hope that was tongue in cheek mate.

CanOz

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Yeh it was, just wanted to see if you'd take the bait mate.

Happy New Year.

gg

The Israeli offensive has sparked protests across the world, with demonstrations held in Australia, Europe, Turkey, Egypt and Syria

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Mumbai, Bali , New york etc etc etc - did we see protests ?


The world will never know peace,it is irreversibly divided along cultural/political/religous lines, sorry to break the bad news.

numbercruncher said:

Mumbai, Bali , New york etc etc etc - did we see protests ?


The world will never know peace,it is irreversibly divided along cultural/political/religous lines, sorry to break the bad news.

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What is the solution? Some might say a world government. A UN with tooth, an IMF with ammunition.

Surprisingly, a lot of conflicts are for the control of geo-locations, definitely fought on the basis of religion/culture/democracy/communism/race.

It is all politics, clear and simple, rest is just a show to feed the masses, smoke and mirror as they say.

This is from Robert Fisk - the UK Independent's MidEast correspondent for the past 30 years - and perhaps one of the only journalists out there telling it like it is. Angry as ever...

Robert Fisk: Leaders lie, civilians die, and lessons of history are ignored

Monday, 29 December 2008

We've got so used to the carnage of the Middle East that we don't care any more – providing we don't offend the Israelis. It's not clear how many of the Gaza dead are civilians, but the response of the Bush administration, not to mention the pusillanimous reaction of Gordon Brown, reaffirm for Arabs what they have known for decades: however they struggle against their antagonists, the West will take Israel's side. As usual, the bloodbath was the fault of the Arabs – who, as we all know, only understand force.

Ever since 1948, we've been hearing this balderdash from the Israelis – just as Arab nationalists and then Arab Islamists have been peddling their own lies: that the Zionist "death wagon" will be overthrown, that all Jerusalem will be "liberated". And always Mr Bush Snr or Mr Clinton or Mr Bush Jnr or Mr Blair or Mr Brown have called upon both sides to exercise "restraint" – as if the Palestinians and the Israelis both have F-18s and Merkava tanks and field artillery. Hamas's home-made rockets have killed just 20 Israelis in eight years, but a day-long blitz by Israeli aircraft that kills almost 300 Palestinians is just par for the course.

The blood-splattering has its own routine. Yes, Hamas provoked Israel's anger, just as Israel provoked Hamas's anger, which was provoked by Israel, which was provoked by Hamas, which ... See what I mean? Hamas fires rockets at Israel, Israel bombs Hamas, Hamas fires more rockets and Israel bombs again and ... Got it? And we demand security for Israel – rightly – but overlook this massive and utterly disproportionate slaughter by Israel. It was Madeleine Albright who once said that Israel was "under siege" – as if Palestinian tanks were in the streets of Tel Aviv.

By last night, the exchange rate stood at 296 Palestinians dead for one dead Israeli. Back in 2006, it was 10 Lebanese dead for one Israeli dead. This weekend was the most inflationary exchange rate in a single day since – the 1973 Middle East War? The 1967 Six Day War? The 1956 Suez War? The 1948 Independence/Nakba War? It's obscene, a gruesome game – which Ehud Barak, the Israeli Defence Minister, unconsciously admitted when he spoke this weekend to Fox TV. "Our intention is to totally change the rules of the game," Barak said.

Exactly. Only the "rules" of the game don't change. This is a further slippage on the Arab-Israeli exchanges, a percentage slide more awesome than Wall Street's crashing shares, though of not much interest in the US which – let us remember – made the F-18s and the Hellfire missiles which the Bush administration pleads with Israel to use sparingly.

Quite a lot of the dead this weekend appear to have been Hamas members, but what is it supposed to solve? Is Hamas going to say: "Wow, this blitz is awesome – we'd better recognise the state of Israel, fall in line with the Palestinian Authority, lay down our weapons and pray we are taken prisoner and locked up indefinitely and support a new American 'peace process' in the Middle East!" Is that what the Israelis and the Americans and Gordon Brown think Hamas is going to do?

Yes, let's remember Hamas's cynicism, the cynicism of all armed Islamist groups. Their need for Muslim martyrs is as crucial to them as Israel's need to create them. The lesson Israel thinks it is teaching – come to heel or we will crush you – is not the lesson Hamas is learning. Hamas needs violence to emphasise the oppression of the Palestinians – and relies on Israel to provide it. A few rockets into Israel and Israel obliges.

Not a whimper from Tony Blair, the peace envoy to the Middle East who's never been to Gaza in his current incarnation. Not a bloody word.

We hear the usual Israeli line. General Yaakov Amidror, the former head of the Israeli army's "research and assessment division" announced that "no country in the world would allow its citizens to be made the target of rocket attacks without taking vigorous steps to defend them". Quite so. But when the IRA were firing mortars over the border into Northern Ireland, when their guerrillas were crossing from the Republic to attack police stations and Protestants, did Britain unleash the RAF on the Irish Republic? Did the RAF bomb churches and tankers and police stations and zap 300 civilians to teach the Irish a lesson? No, it did not. Because the world would have seen it as criminal behaviour. We didn't want to lower ourselves to the IRA's level.

Yes, Israel deserves security. But these bloodbaths will not bring it. Not since 1948 have air raids protected Israel. Israel has bombed Lebanon thousands of times since 1975 and not one has eliminated "terrorism". So what was the reaction last night? The Israelis threaten ground attacks. Hamas waits for another battle. Our Western politicians crouch in their funk holes. And somewhere to the east – in a cave? a basement? on a mountainside? – a well-known man in a turban smiles.

Brad, thanks for posting Fisk's remarks. He is one journalist with integrity to go with his many years of experience.

I won't be ranked amongst the Western supporters of Israel's disproportionate attacks.

having witnessed tribalism and agression from a certain group in the middle east which i will not name, i wholeheartedly suport israel's efforts to achieve peace by eradicating people that are sworn to destroy israel.

after all, palestinians are not intrerested in peace or land. they had a very good peace plan in 1948 giving them huge territories in comparison to now. they rejected it and have kept rejecting all plans.

palestinians know that all the arabs in the world, acting together could not defeat israel, yet they still insist on figthing a losing battle.

arabs have so much land, millions of kilometers. israel is the size a few sydney suburbs, why dont the other arabs chip in and give a bit to the palestinians and leave israel alone before israel bombs all of them back to the stone age.

the arabs have no idea who they are up against. ive seen the concentration camps in poland and germany, what the jews were up against.... and they survived! people that survived that, are going to be tough as nails, and they are.

these jews that survived europe, will never let something like that happen again and israel is the only country that can guarantee that. that is why israel will not be defeated. the sooner the arabs realise that, the better for them i think.

and dont worry israel doesnt need america to defeat the arabs. who do you think is at the spearhead of scientific research in the west. who gets all the nobel prizes. einstein, rosenbergs, oppenheimer.

if israel wanted to, it could take all of lebabnon, half of syria, the sainai, and a bit of saudi arabia, and annex it as a part of a greater israel. apart from a few resoulutions and muffled cries noone would say anything. it would becme a superpower and noone could do anything abotu it. even with western sanctions it could always trade with africa.

israel doesnt do that becasue it wants a modest country in a land it is perpared to share with arabs. peace. (im not a jew)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZIAMgjKulY&feature=PlayList&p=D98CBC8EC71210B7&index=15

from 3min.13sec to 5min.10 sec avner talks to his mother about having to carry out assasinations against fatah. gives you their side fo the story and puts things into perspective a little.

and dont worry israel doesnt need america to defeat the arabs. who do you think is at the spearhead of scientific research in the west. who gets all the nobel prizes. einstein, rosenbergs, oppenheimer.

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You justify (falsely) Israel not needing America because of a couple of Jewish background scientists - ? are they going to take out the Terrorists with stethoscopes and pens or something ?

Last time I looked Israels entire military machine is US made .....

I think at the cost of few Palestinians, Oil price has risen. I wonder is there any correlation.

Power, land and resources plays an important role in this complex world. I wonder how much is truth, fiction, reality and smoke.

Word for the wise whenever rockets are fired buy oil contracts.

slim pickins said:

having witnessed tribalism and agression from a certain group in the middle east which i will not name, i wholeheartedly suport israel's efforts to achieve peace by eradicating people that are sworn to destroy israel.

after all, palestinians are not intrerested in peace or land. they had a very good peace plan in 1948 giving them huge territories in comparison to now. they rejected it and have kept rejecting all plans.

palestinians know that all the arabs in the world, acting together could not defeat israel, yet they still insist on figthing a losing battle.

arabs have so much land, millions of kilometers. israel is the size a few sydney suburbs, why dont the other arabs chip in and give a bit to the palestinians and leave israel alone before israel bombs all of them back to the stone age.

the arabs have no idea who they are up against. ive seen the concentration camps in poland and germany, what the jews were up against.... and they survived! people that survived that, are going to be tough as nails, and they are.

these jews that survived europe, will never let something like that happen again and israel is the only country that can guarantee that. that is why israel will not be defeated. the sooner the arabs realise that, the better for them i think.

and dont worry israel doesnt need america to defeat the arabs. who do you think is at the spearhead of scientific research in the west. who gets all the nobel prizes. einstein, rosenbergs, oppenheimer.

if israel wanted to, it could take all of lebabnon, half of syria, the sainai, and a bit of saudi arabia, and annex it as a part of a greater israel. apart from a few resoulutions and muffled cries noone would say anything. it would becme a superpower and noone could do anything abotu it. even with western sanctions it could always trade with africa.

israel doesnt do that becasue it wants a modest country in a land it is perpared to share with arabs. peace. (im not a jew)

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Chill mate, in the words of infamous Joker "Why so serious?"

You don't have to tell us what your believe in (or deny), to justify your comment.

But your conclusion "Peace", does not sit well with your post.

Peace :

Uncle Barry said:

If you only knew, who I was and who my family and friends are,
then you would be then thinking what a dumb stupid thing I have just written !

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What could that possibly mean?

Am I to assume that you are some VIP, gw's cousin, rudd's nephew, someone of high political position and you and your "friends" have inside knowledge that the rest of the world doesn't?

Come on mate, i know who you are. you're uncle barry, just another anonymous poster on the internet.

Do you realise that the more you post the easier it becomes to invalidate everything you say?

Can anyone tell me what Hamas actually wants ?
Thanks in advance

Everyone is talking about disproportionate response , but you know you don't slap a lion and expect a kitty slap back.

If it wasn't for Sept 11 would the US be in Iraq ?

What exactly do Muslim terrorists want??

The IRA terrorists wanted England out of Ireland.

What do they want????

To rule the world is the only conclusion I can come up with.

nick2fish said:

If it wasn't for Sept 11 would the US be in Iraq ?

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Hmmm let me see. What the fcuk are they doing in Iraq when none of the attackers were from Iraq. Ever asked this question, mate? They should be somewhere else don't you think?

After each depression there is a large scale War....will this be the next one?

mayk said:

Hmmm let me see. What the fcuk are they doing in Iraq when none of the attackers were from Iraq. Ever asked this question, mate? They should be somewhere else don't you think?

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Yes I do think they should be somewhere else, but I leave that and the conspiracy theories for another thread.

You would do better if you would reply to my post with an answer peace man

cheers

nick2fish said:

Can anyone tell me what Hamas actually wants ?
Thanks in advance

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Whatever their masters want them to do. I think Palestinians are not liked by Arabs. Arabs are just using them to provoke Israel, and make it look bad. Similarly, Israels are using them to show its military strength to the Arab world. It is a zero sum game for Arabs and Israel, the middle man, Gazians are the "Collateral Damage" in this game of chess.

I feel sorry for innocent people they are just caught at the wrong place at the wrong time.

Glen48 said:

After each depression there is a large scale War....will this be the next one?

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I don't think so, how can it be a war when the other side does not even has a standing army. The real flash point is in South Asia, I hope something big does not trigger a mushroom cloud there.

Interestingly, British left the division of Israel/Palestine and India/Pakistan incomplete. Both still fighting 60 years on.

I do sometime think of a world, where there is peace among Arabs and Israel, peace in South Asia, prosperity in Africa and rainbows everyday in the sky.