Islam: Is it inherently Evil?

SirRumpole · 16 January 2015

Calliope said:
Obviously Cliff and Rumpy support the concept of "moderate' Islamists. I would like to see your evidence Rumpy, in support of this concept, as it applies in Australia and Europe. I notice you are always asking others for evidence, but very light on supplyig any yourself. Now's your chance.

Perhaps you can refute this.for starters.

http://counterjihadreport.com/2013/...wi-muslim-moderates-endorse-aggressive-jihad/

If all Muslims supported jihad, they would be all out there doing it.

Instead of one lone flakey dude holding up a coffee shop we would have daily explosions on the transport system, car bombs at Parliament house, anything else you like to think of. There would be mass migrations of Muslims to Syria to help IS. As it is there is less than a hundred. The rest aren't stupid enough to risk their lives for religion.

So we have a choice, to get people onside or inter them all in some camp in the Simpson desert, and given your whinging about the cost of detention centres now, would you be prepared to pay for it ?

Given that, I support not enriching the subversive element by allowing more Muslims into the country, and hope that the younger generations of Muslims will have the jihad knocked out of them by our laid back Aussie irreverence.

Bintang · 16 January 2015

SirRumpole said:
So we have a choice, to get people onside or inter them all in some camp in the Simpson desert, and given your whinging about the cost of detention centres now, would you be prepared to pay for it ?

Given that, I support not enriching the subversive element by allowing more Muslims into the country, and hope that the younger generations of Muslims will have the jihad knocked out of them by our laid back Aussie irreverence.

We could coerce all food manufacturers to pay for non-halal certification of their products and use the money to fund the internment camps.

Calliope · 16 January 2015

all aboutRe: Islam: Is it inherently Evil?

I am still waiting for your evidence Rumpy on the attitude on what "moderate" Islamists views are on Muslims converting to Christianity (apostacy) and how it varies from the radicals. That's what the cartoon was all about. I don't think your "ride with me" nonsense will alter their views on this one. I may be wrong...perhaps you have counter evidence.

and given your whinging about the cost of detention centres

Evidence or examples please.

SirRumpole · 16 January 2015

Re: all aboutRe: Islam: Is it inherently Evil?

Calliope said:
I am still waiting for your evidence Rumpy on the attitude on what "moderate" Islamists views are on Muslims converting to Christianity (apostacy) and how it varies from the radicals. That's what the cartoon was all about. I don't think your "ride with me" nonsense will alter their views on this one. I may be wrong...perhaps you have counter evidence.

Evidence or examples please.

I doubt if its a case for a lot of people of converting to another religion, but many people who are brought up in a Christian church drift out of it naturally, outgrowing the doctrines. I dare say the same applies to Muslims.

Bintang · 16 January 2015

Calliope said:
There is no doubt that the so-called moderate muslims do support offensive jihad.

chiff said:
I am in Malaysia at the moment...I think that your cartoon is,what you say,putting it nicely,crap.

Bintang said:
What is the punishment for apostasy in Muslim countries? I know it varies.
How about Malaysia?

There seems to be a slow-rush to answer this question so I will make my own attempt.
In Saudi Arabia (the cradle of Islam) amongst other places the punishment is death.

So are the Saudis radical or moderate muslims?

SirRumpole · 16 January 2015

Bintang said:
There seems to be a slow-rush to answer this question so I will make my own attempt.
In Saudi Arabia (the cradle of Islam) amongst other places the punishment is death.
View attachment 61156

So are the Saudis radical or moderate muslims?

The Saudis are radicals.

Next question ?

Bintang · 16 January 2015

Re: all aboutRe: Islam: Is it inherently Evil?

Calliope said:
I am still waiting for your evidence Rumpy on the attitude on what "moderate" Islamists views are on Muslims converting to Christianity (apostacy) and how it varies from the radicals. That's what the cartoon was all about. I don't think your "ride with me" nonsense will alter their views on this one. I may be wrong...perhaps you have counter evidence.
Evidence or examples please.

SirRumpole said:
I doubt if its a case for a lot of people of converting to another religion, but many people who are brought up in a Christian church drift out of it naturally, outgrowing the doctrines. I dare say the same applies to Muslims.

It's not just about converting to Christianity. It is also a crime in many muslim countries to abandon Islam and become atheist.

luutzu · 16 January 2015

Bintang said:
There seems to be a slow-rush to answer this question so I will make my own attempt.
In Saudi Arabia (the cradle of Islam) amongst other places the punishment is death.
View attachment 61156

So are the Saudis radical or moderate muslims?

Our leadership seems OK with them though.

Maybe that's only for the cameras. Behind closed doors those bad Saudi Royals probably got an earful.

Bintang · 16 January 2015

SirRumpole said:
The Saudis are radicals.

Next question ?

Who are the moderates?

Bintang · 16 January 2015

luutzu said:
Our leadership seems OK with them though.

There might be a reason for that. Have you ever heard of something called 'oil'?

luutzu · 16 January 2015

Bintang said:
There might be a reason for that. Have you ever heard of something called 'oil'?

Outrageous!

We compromise our values, our beliefs in human rights and democracy and get in bed with... with Islamic dictators? For oil?

Here's a short article on a Muslim who helped save the Jewish shoppers in Paris:

http://www.dailystar.com.lb/News/Middle-East/2015/Jan-16/284286-french-nationality-given-to-malian-deli-attack-hero.ashx

PARIS: A Malian Muslim who hid shoppers from an Islamist gunman during an attack on a Jewish supermarket in Paris will be given French nationality, the Interior Ministry said Thursday.

After the gunman had already killed people during a hostage taking in the store Friday, 24-year old shop attendant Lassana Bathily hid several people in the store’s freezer, turned off the light and told them to stay calm.

He then escaped to look for help. After initially being suspected of being an accomplice, he was able to tell police what was happening inside the store.

“I helped Jews. We’re all brothers,” Bathily told BFM TV. It’s not a question of Jews, Christians or Muslims, we’re all in the same boat,” he said.

SirRumpole · 16 January 2015

Bintang said:
Who are the moderates?

The Indonesian government executed the Bali bombers.

Bintang · 16 January 2015

SirRumpole said:
The Indonesian government executed the Bali bombers.

Ah good, so now we know that all Indonesian muslims are moderates.

Bintang · 16 January 2015

luutzu said:
Here's a short article on a Muslim who helped save the Jewish shoppers in Paris:

Having helped save kafirs he is no longer a muslim.

(PS: Funny how when I write the word kafir nothing happens but if I try to include the N-word in a post it gets censored. I guess some racial slurs are more equal than others)

Tisme · 16 January 2015

Just so I don't get caught up in the hate group. I have to defend the wonderful peoples of Malaysia no matter which religion they subscribe to (which they are free to ply along family lines). I feel safe there and it's one of my favourite destinations.

I have yet to find a country where the locals don't complain mostly about the same stuff: leadership, lack of progress, taxation and the biggest of all = bureaucracy.

I can't imagine living in a country that enforces a religion, but I can imagine the rage that could arise at being trapped in it.

SirRumpole · 16 January 2015

Bintang said:
Ah good, so now we know that all Indonesian muslims are moderates.

You can't make assumptions about ALL anything.

ALL Catholics are not pedophiles because a few of them are

ALL Muslims are not terrorists because a few of them are.

Certainly you have to be able to sort out which is which. I cant think of a good way to do this, can you ?

Bintang · 16 January 2015

Tisme said:
Just so I don't get caught up in the hate group. I have to defend the wonderful peoples of Malaysia no matter which religion they subscribe to (which they are free to ply along family lines). I feel safe there and it's one of my favourite destinations.

I have yet to find a country where the locals don't complain mostly about the same stuff: leadership, lack of progress, taxation and the biggest of all = bureaucracy.

I can't imagine living in a country that enforces a religion, but I can imagine the rage that could arise at being trapped in it.

Yes, I also love Malaysia but the muslim majority in that country is slender - I think barely 51%.
Indonesia on the other hand is more like 90% or higher which might explain some of this:

http://www.hrw.org/news/2013/08/15/sufi-muslims-feel-heat-indonesia-s-rising-intolerance

"Indonesian government officials and security forces have often facilitated harassment and intimidation of religious minorities by militant Islamist groups or stood by while militants violently attacked religious minority communities. Such actions are in part made possible by discriminatory laws and regulations, including a blasphemy law that officially recognizes only six religions, and house of worship decrees that give local majority populations significant leverage over religious minority communities.

Indonesian government institutions have also played a role in the violation of the rights and freedoms of the country’s religious minorities. Those institutions, which include the Ministry of Religious Affairs, the Coordinating Board for Monitoring Mystical Beliefs in Society (Bakor Pakem) under the Attorney General’s Office, and the semi-official MUI, have eroded religious freedom by issuing decrees and fatwas against members of religious minorities and using their position of authority to press for the prosecution of “blasphemers.”

Bintang · 16 January 2015

SirRumpole said:
You can't make assumptions about ALL anything.

ALL Catholics are not pedophiles because a few of them are

ALL Muslims are not terrorists because a few of them are.

Certainly you have to be able to sort out which is which. I cant think of a good way to do this, can you ?

There is an important difference though. To the best of my knowledge the Catholic religion does not have as the basis of its doctrine an instruction manual on paedophilia.

Muslims on the other hand have a comprehensive instruction manual on violence and terrorism which is the basis of Islam.
So in an attempt to answer your last question I would say: we cannot judge them by their cover but we can certainly judge them by what's inside the book.

Boggo · 16 January 2015

SirRumpole said:
ALL Muslims are not terrorists because a few of them are.

Certainly you have to be able to sort out which is which. I cant think of a good way to do this, can you ?

This guy may have the answer

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ck-bags-f-live-TV.html?ito=video_player_click

luutzu · 16 January 2015

Bintang said:
Having helped save kafirs he is no longer a muslim.

(PS: Funny how when I write the word kafir nothing happens but if I try to include the N-word in a post it gets censored. I guess some racial slurs are more equal than others)

haha... so a good Muslim is a former Muslim?

I supposed that's better than "a good Muslim is a dead Muslim" or something along that line.

Don't take the auto-censor too negatively... it's a program where the developer put in an array of offensive English words and programmed it to remove/replace them when detected. Maybe contact Joe to add Kafir or whatever else you find offensive.

Islam: Is it inherently Evil?

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