Islam: Is it inherently Evil?

[Julia]

How about simply mutual respect, courtesy, good manners or some other "goody two shoes" nicety?

It is really easy to be unthinking, vicious, spiteful, wrong or deceitful.
In my view Internet forums have enabled people to repeatedly make simplistic, thoughtless and often nasty comments. We are anonymous keyboard warriors. Lets create mayhem!!

On top of that our media culture revels in "simplistic, thoughtless and often nasty comments". Alan Jones, Andrew Bolt take a bow. And these are some of the most well paid highest rating performers. And their prize is money and recognition and ratings. (All very useful to sell more tat to people who already have a life full of the stuff)

Agree 100%, basilio. I worry also that the huge response to the Paris killings, including the symbolic joining together of linked arms of many world leaders, has unintentionally provided some sort of 'open season' on expressing hatred, giving implied licence to many who would have previously held their collective tongues, to unleash anger and insults.

Many of the posts on social media show an alarming level of vicious abuse, often a sort of pack mentality with multiple posters falling into the vituperative bullying.
Surely those same people would not behave like that in a face to face situation?

Occasionally I've heard bits of Alan Jones and Ray Hadley on morning radio and just cannot understand how they attract the audiences they apparently do.

I seem to be the only respondent who has taken basilio's comments as general, rather than specifically relating to criticism of Islam. My post was as a result of that assumption and did not imply any criticism of anyone finding fault with behaviour of Islamists. Probably I should have considered more the thread title and basilio should have been more clear about whether he was focusing on criticism of Islam or general behaviour on the internet.

 

[basilio]

Just for interest I googled "Is Islam inherantly evil".

What a surprise...Pages and pages of discussions on just that topic. Seems that every (non-muslim...) and his dog wants to start a discussion with this premise.

I don't want to try and discuss each comment in detail. As I said I believe quite strongly that the portrayal of Islam as inherently evil by quotation of the Quran is just a series of simplistic or willfully ignorant actions.

It is dead simple to trash a religion by picking words and phrases out of context both linguistically and historically. For anyone who cares to read just what the Quran says and what was meant I'll post the reference.

I agree there are some ugly Islamic states which treat women particularly badly. Saudi Arabia springs to mind. There are others as well. In these cases it is a fundamentalist approach to Islam that is the issue. Fundamentalist Jews, Christians whatever will have similar rigid belief systems that they want to impose on the rest of the community. And it will cause grief.

I found a particularly good site that explains what Islam is about. Perhaps it's worth checking out if people are going to discuss this topic with any respect ?

Top Five Misquotations Of The Qur’an

by Dr. M. Nazir Khan | Jan 1, 2015 | Guidance | 0 comments


The recent surge in negative sentiments towards Islam and Muslims has resulted in many attempts to depict the religion as inherently violent. This has also resulted in absurd accusations against the Qur’an. What are the five most frequently misquoted passages in the Qur’an? Do accusations of violence stand up to academic scrutiny, or are the verses being distorted to suggest the opposite of what they actually say?

http://spiritualperception.org/top-five-misquotations-of-the-quran/

Islam and Non-Muslims

by Dr. M. Nazir Khan | Jan 12, 2015 | Society, Values | 0 comments

How do human beings live together on a planet with so many different moral systems, ideologies and religions? What does Islam say about dealing with non-Muslims? Doesn’t religion always create artificial barriers between people?​

In order for people to live peacefully together on this planet, they must be willing to deal respectfully with those who belong to other communities. ​A common feature of all fanatical ideologies is xenophobia – the extreme hatred for those who are different and do not belong to one’s group.​ It is essential then, for any system of guidance (religious or otherwise) that purports to be a complete way of life, that it must accommodate outsiders with tolerance and respect.

​ The emergence of fanatical ideologies in war-torn and politically repressive Muslim-majority countries​ has lead many to question how Islam defines its relationship with the outsider. It is of critical importance therefore, that a close examination of the foundational and authoritative sources be undertaken to answer this question.

http://spiritualperception.org/islam-and-non-muslims/

 

[IFocus]

For anyone with an open mind this is a good read by Kareem Abdul-Jabbar from Mauldin (yes, the same gentleman who scored the most points in NBA history)

Its in relation to the France murders.




http://time.com/3662152/kareem-abdu...bdo-terrorist-attacks-are-not-about-religion/

 

[Julia]

From "The Australian" today:

West Australian academic Anne Aly, who founded the group People Against Violent Extremism, which relies largely on volunteers, said the government had missed a vital opportunity to help community leaders deal with scores of known extremists whose passports were cancelled.

“I think the process is taking too long,” Dr Aly said.

“I understand government bureaucracy, but really when there is a matter of urgency like this, you would think that the government would put more effort towards it.

“They’ve managed to put together legislation about the remov*al of passports, increased surveillance of returned foreign fighters … but those measures are not being balanced out by any prevention measures.”

Last August, the federal government announced that $13.4m would be allocated to countering violent extremism as part of a wider $630m counter-terrorism package. The funds were specifically aimed at strengthening community engagement programs.

The government is yet to announce any concrete plans for that money, though it is preparing in coming weeks to announce a strategy that directly targets known extremists. Funding for counselling, rehabilitation and social support services are also expected to be in the offing.

“What we are questioning is the sense of priority,” Dr Rifi said. “The type of people whose passports have been confiscated have been roaming the street and they are forming a fan base around them, taking the high moral ground, using intimidation strategies, and no one is engaging with them.”

Sydney-based Social Justice Network president Jamal Daoud, a moderate who describes himself as a secular Sunni, said those fighting extremism on the ground had been the target of intimidation and physical attack by terrorist supporters yet had received little support from authorities.

“A lot of people in the community a the moment are giving up any hope of co-operating with authorities,” Mr Daoud said.

“It’s very alarming. It seems there is no plan.”

The Attorney-General’s Department has held discussions with both Dr Rifi and Dr Aly on the design of initiatives under new counter-terrorism programs.

It is understood funding applications will shortly be accepted.

The government has also funded Dr Aly’s People Against Violent Extremism organisation to develop the Walk Away from Violent Extremism campaign.

The government said yesterday that its Countering Violent Extremism Program was “on schedule for implementation”.

“This work cannot succeed without the support of the community and the active involvement of leaders of the Muslim community,” said a spokeswoman for the federal Attorney-General, George Brandis.

Why is it that the Muslim community is demanding taxpayer funded government programs to prevent the bad behaviour of their young people?

How is the government supposed to prevent these people from accepting the urgings to them from mosques or the internet which supposedly prompt them to want to fight for ISIS et al?

Isn't it reasonable to expect Muslim leaders, those so called moderate people, to take some responsibility for managing their own community?

 

[Calliope]

As I said I believe quite strongly that the portrayal of Islam as inherently evil by quotation of the Quran is just a series of simplistic or willfully ignorant actions.

It is dead simple to trash a religion by picking words and phrases out of context both linguistically and historically. For anyone who cares to read just what the Quran says and what was meant I'll post the reference.

Perhaps you should have another look at boggo's illustration.

It is an undeniable truth. Perhaps,with you obsession, you would feel more comfortable if you were a part of the Muslim minority here. We have no laws against apostasy.

 

[Boggo]

From "The Australian" today:

Why is it that the Muslim community is demanding taxpayer funded government programs to prevent the bad behaviour of their young people?

How is the government supposed to prevent these people from accepting the urgings to them from mosques or the internet which supposedly prompt them to want to fight for ISIS et al?

Isn't it reasonable to expect Muslim leaders, those so called moderate people, to take some responsibility for managing their own community?

A read of the article in the link below puts the European problem in perspective.

Extract ".... in Denmark Muslims constitute only 5% of the population, yet consume 40% of the welfare budget."

http://islamversuseurope.blogspot.com.au/2010/09/cost-of-muslim-immigration.html

 

[FxTrader]

For anyone with an open mind this is a good read by Kareem Abdul-Jabbar from Mauldin (yes, the same gentleman who scored the most points in NBA history) Its in relation to the France murders.

http://time.com/3662152/kareem-abdu...bdo-terrorist-attacks-are-not-about-religion/

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (his adopted religious identity) makes some very valid points in this article. He is of course correct when he points out that money, bragging-rights in a power struggle and deceived, programmed drones are all part of the tapestry of what is going on in radical Islam. However, to assert that terrorist acts committed by "self-proclaimed" radical Muslims should be divorced from any genuine religious motivation is both disingenuous and a naive delusion.

Kareem's views on Islam must be viewed through a prism of discernment, he is an extremely biased commentator on the subject. The KKK analogy is a particularly poor argument, the hate and prejudice enshrined by this racist organization and the acts they carry out, are done in the name of white supremacy not Jesus.

Kareem's desperate plea that acts of Islamist terrorism be dismissed as a misunderstanding of true Islam by criminals should be discarded as nonsensical. To suggest that a violent Muslim fundamentalist does not properly understand Islam (and Islam is not the problem) when he flies a plane into a building shouting Allahu Akbar begs the question of who is more deceived, the person committing the act or the person who denies Islam is the problem and prime motivation.

It takes the basic tenets of a religion like Islam to create the violent drones he rails against. When acts of jihad are a ticket to an eternity in paradise, life on earth is only a proving ground for demonstrating one's worthiness to get the ticket. The sooner one can get to paradise the better, it's not a death cult but rather an eternal life in paradise cult. Islam certainly inspires evil and is a grand deception that, like its cousin Christianity, is a combination of myth, legend and fiction masquerading as absolute truth.

 

[Calliope]

When acts of jihad are a ticket to an eternity in paradise, life on earth is only a proving ground for demonstrating one's worthiness to get the ticket. The sooner one can get to paradise the better, it's not a death cult but rather an eternal life in paradise cult. Islam certainly inspires evil and is a grand deception that, like its cousin Christianity, is a combination of myth, legend and fiction masquerading as absolute truth.

Apparently there are not only virgins in paradise, but young boys too, to cater for males with different tastes..

The poor wives who gave up their virginity for the pleasure of their husbands do not get anything. But wait, Allah is all merciful! He gives the wives the rare honour of watching their husbands deflower those 72 Houris (virgins) and 28 young pre-pubescent boys.

Homosexuality was and is widely practised in Islamic countries. To please the homosexuals among his followers he (Mohammed) promised them pre-pubescent boys in Paradise. So after committing plunder, loot, rape and murder in this life, the followers of Islam get "rewarded" by untouched virginal youths who are fresh like pearls.

(QURAN 52:24): "And there will go round boy-servants of theirs, to serve them as if they were preserved pearls."

(QURAN 56:17): "They will be served by immortal boys."

(QURAN 76:19): "And round about them will (serve) boys of everlasting youth. If you see them, you would think them scattered pearls."

http://www.albatrus.org/english/religions/islam/72virgins_and_boys.htm

 

[IFocus]

FxTrader

Agree with your over all sentiment FX however isnt the KKK using Christianity for cover or twisting words out of the Christian faith to suit their view of the world in the same or similar manner the radical Jihad mob are.

I do understand that Islam has in the main only ever been spread by the sword.

The KKK analogy is a particularly poor argument, the hate and prejudice enshrined by this racist organization and the acts they carry out, are done in the name of white supremacy not Jesus.

I am sure you have a better understanding of the Islamic verses than I, couldn't anyone cherry pick how you apply similar to the above example of the KKK?

The Bali bombers had no sympathy from the general population in Indonesia when they were shot only the radicals thought it was an act of faith.

Most of the lunatics committing murder against western targets have been complete losers by any measure ex druggies, drug dealers, pips, lost souls with no purpose and a bent for breaking rules hardly intellectuals of a religious faith rather drones as you put it under the influence of men wanting to exercise power.


The immediate issue for the west is that large populations of Muslims live among us, as expressed by a security expert on ABC the other day the west must mobilise the moderates against the radicals failure to do so will just produce more radicals.

Kareem's desperate plea that acts of Islamist terrorism be dismissed as a misunderstanding of true Islam by criminals should be discarded as nonsensical. To suggest that a violent Muslim fundamentalist does not properly understand Islam (and Islam is not the problem) when he flies a plane into a building shouting Allahu Akbar begs the question of who is more deceived, the person committing the act or the person who denies Islam is the problem and prime motivation.

 

[Calliope]

Open-minded IFocus asks the question;

however isnt the KKK using Christianity for cover or twisting words out of the Christian faith to suit their view of the world in the same or similar manner the radical Jihad mob are.

So what? The estimated Klan membership of 3000 to 5000 in America is miniscule. There are 1.5 billion Muslims.The Klan's potential for evil is negligable, Islam's potential for evil is massive and is being demonstrated every day.

 

[luutzu]

Open-minded IFocus asks the question;



So what? The estimated Klan membership of 3000 to 5000 in America is miniscule. There are 1.5 billion Muslims.The Klan's potential for evil is negligable, Islam's potential for evil is massive and is being demonstrated every day.

How do you say stuff like that and not see how wrong that is? Both intellectually and just... common sensibly?

So the KKK members, despite also being White and Christian, are on the whole only dangerous because they're members of the KKK. So when it comes to the KKK, they're nasty because of their membership card - one that reads "KKK" - any White or any Christian that's not a KKK member, they're innocent.

But with the terrorists, being Arab and Muslim (predominantly) as well as member of one Jihadist group or another... why these terrorists are the same as all the rest of them Muslims - all 1.5 billions of them.

Wow!


Well at least you see all men (of the same race and religion) are brothers - except when they're White, Christian and also nasty - in which case they're just nasty and their claim to the same faith as yours are false, their same skin colour... that's just because they don't go out too often.

 

[bellenuit]

Meet the honor brigade, an organized campaign to silence debate on Islam

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...002e5a-9aaf-11e4-a7ee-526210d665b4_story.html

 

[Bintang]

FxTrader
Isn’t the KKK using Christianity for cover or twisting words out of the Christian faith to suit their view of the world in the same or similar manner the radical Jihad mob are.

KKK were racist criminals. Jihadists are religious warriors.
KKK operations were limited to within the USA. Jihadists operate globally.
KKK were not following a mission to conquer the world. Jihadists are pursuing a goal of forcing the entire world to completely submit to Islam and Sharia law.
KKK were officially denounced by virtually every Christian denomination in existence. How many Islamic organisations have officially denounced the Jihadists?

FxTrader
I do understand that Islam has in the main only ever been spread by the sword.

Doesn’t that tell you enough?

FxTrader
The immediate issue for the west is that large populations of Muslims live among us, as expressed by a security expert on ABC the other day the west must mobilise the moderates against the radicals failure to do so will just produce more radicals.

There are very few moderates who have the courage to speak out let alone mobilise against the radicals (whatever ‘mobilise against’ actually means ??) Those muslims who stood up after the Paris shootings and declared on CNN that Islam is a religion of peace are either woefully ignorant of their own Islamic doctrine or were being deliberately deceptive. I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt and assume they are just woefully ignorant and also very well meaning. Unfortunately though, their naïve statements are impotent.

There are however, some ex-muslim scholars who at very great personal risk have in recent years published their detailed scholarly research to try and educate both the West and other muslims about the real nature of Islam and the truth about the life of its sole creator – Muhammad.

I believe the best way to counter the muslim radicals is for the work of these scholars to be spread far and wide under the protection of Western freedom of speech (for as long as we still have it). I am certain there are muslims who will flee from the control of Islam once they understand how they themselves have been deceived. The ex-muslim Islamic scholars themselves are prime examples and we should be extremely grateful to them. Their published works are potentially our best bulwark.

 

[bellenuit]

As I said I believe quite strongly that the portrayal of Islam as inherently evil by quotation of the Quran is just a series of simplistic or willfully ignorant actions.

It is dead simple to trash a religion by picking words and phrases out of context both linguistically and historically. For anyone who cares to read just what the Quran says and what was meant I'll post the reference.

I have often encountered those sites that try to explain away the inherent violence and hatred promoted by the Quran. While there are many Islamophobes that deliberately misquote the Quran, Hadith and other "sacred" texts, there are many serious scholars of Islam that do not misquote and show precisely the violence that Islam advocates. I know there are also parts of the Quran that promote tolerance and peace, but that does not excuse the inherently evil parts. In regards to the latter, when you go to those apologist sites, you will see complete obfuscation and deceit in their attempts to deny the obvious meaning of what is written. You will see them say "kill" doesn't actually mean kill, "Jews" doesn't apply to all Jews or to present day Jews but just a particular group of Jews that they were at war with at a particular time. "War" doesn't mean war, but passive resistance of some sort. It is they that are falling over backwards to linguistically twist what was written so that it appears not to mean what it patently obviously says. When I have time to do it justice, I will give some examples.

Looking at another aspect of the "scared" texts, their explanation of physical phenomena such as the age of the earth, of man, formation of planets and stars etc. Since the Quran is the written word of Allah to all that accept Islam, then true Islamists must accept what is written in those texts as correct. But we know, with an additional 1400 years of scientific knowledge to draw from, that the "sacred" texts are wrong in the explanation they give to the physical world. These same apologist websites also address these incompatibilities in exactly the same way as for the violence aspect, by obfuscation and deceit. Words are twisted to mean something else so that they can fit in with modern day scientific knowledge (though they mostly haven't accepted evolution yet). In fact I recently read several articles on Islamic websites that said a multiverse universe is consistent with the Quran. These were in response to a growing number of scientists backing the possibility of a multiverse rather than a single universe.

Here is an example and look at the nonsense they put up to support that argument.

Multiverse in the Quran?

http://www.islamophilic.com/#!Multiverse-in-the-Quran/c1p08/E06194D6-184B-4365-B9F3-D3F16F6D479C

It should be obvious to anyone with a modicum of intelligence that this is just a bulldust explanation so that they can continue to claim that the Quran is the written word of God and is beyond criticism. Why is it so difficult to not see that their "explanations" for the violence and hatred in the Quran is just the same bulldust so that they can claim Islam to be a religion of peace and distance themselves from the violence that is endemic in the muslim world.

One of the reasons moderate muslims find it impossible to control the extremists in their midsts is that the extremists rely on the words that the Quran and Hadith actually say in support of their actions and the moderate leaders have nothing to counter them other than perhaps drawing on those parts of the Quran that promote peace. But even those parts, when you read them in context, only support peace and tolerance to infidels when they succumb to the will of Allah.

 

[Bintang]

Of Course - Islam Has Nothing to Do with Islam

 

[Calliope]

Of Course - Islam Has Nothing to Do with Islam

Of course President Obama believes that terrorism "has nothing to do with Islam" It's hard not to believe that he is a closet Islamist

 

[Bintang]

Of course President Obama believes that terrorism "has nothing to do with Islam" It's hard not to believe that he is a closet Islamist

Maybe Obama and all others like him are just trying to avoid being added to the Islamic terrorist hit lists. Speak out and speak the truth and that's where you end up, like ex-muslim (i.e. apostate) Ayaan Hirsi Ali who says that terrorism has everything to do with Islam.

http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2015/s4160195.htm

 

[Julia]

Speak out and speak the truth and that's where you end up, like ex-muslim (i.e. apostate) Ayaan Hirsi Ali who says that terrorism has everything to do with Islam.

I admire her conviction and courage. It is in strong contrast to Australian Muslim 'moderate leaders' who were reported recently as being too afraid to confront radicalised members of their family or community.

Surely the obvious thing to do would be to report them to the police or other appropriate agency.

 

[SirRumpole]

I admire her conviction and courage. It is in strong contrast to Australian Muslim 'moderate leaders' who were reported recently as being too afraid to confront radicalised members of their family or community.

Surely the obvious thing to do would be to report them to the police or other appropriate agency.

Wouldn't you agree that the smart thing to do for a "moderate" Muslim is to not draw attention and possible reprisal to yourself by publicly confronting radicals, but privately "dob them in" to police ?

 

[Julia]

Wouldn't you agree that the smart thing to do for a "moderate" Muslim is to not draw attention and possible reprisal to yourself by publicly confronting radicals, but privately "dob them in" to police ?

I have no idea. Depends on their family and community relationships, I suppose. I'd have thought that if your son or daughter was showing signs of untoward activity you'd have a responsibility to make an effort to deal with it intra-family as first resort.

I already suggested there existed the option of contacting police, rather than just doing nothing which is what was implied in the article.