Islam: Is it inherently Evil?

[Bintang]

…. it doesnt help to understand what we face currently if we dismiss the role we have played in its genesis.

What exactly are you trying to say with this? That we should flagellate ourselves for things that happened many generations ago?
That's pointless. We cannot change history. What we can do is not repeat the mistakes of history.
One of those mistakes is thinking that we can appease an intractable foe whose very objective is to drag us into conflict. The 'try-to-be-nice-to-them' approach will never work.

 

[galumay]

What exactly are you trying to say with this? That we should flagellate ourselves for things that happened many generations ago?

I dont claim to have the answers, all I know is that if we dont understand history then we are doomed to repeat it - hardly an original thought!

I never said we should flagellate ourselves, I said we should inform ourselves with the understanding of history.

When 'we' pioneered terrorism its simplistic and indeed useless to decry the part all of humanity play in its use as a tool in warfare.

Like I said, we have no moral high ground to stand on, so what can we do?

No obvious answer, but I think it will take a paradigm shift in thinking to move humanity on from the previous course of history.

 

[Calliope]

Like I said, we have no moral high ground to stand on, so what can we do?

High moral ground or not, we have to combat evil and that can't be done by making excuses for their atrocities and saying it is our fault, and insinuating that they are on a higher moral plane than we are. You speak for no one but yourself. If you wish to self-flagellate...go ahead.

 

[orr]

Ultimately all acts of terror can be drawn back to a belief in religious or cultural superiority, t.

thanks for post galumay; at around the time you were typing it up I was re-watching the youtube of 1966 production 'The battle for Algiers'. that it is rated as one of the 50 best films ever made by those who know bears thinking about... to wit; Too few people seem to want to reflect on the conclusions of the CIA to 9/11 commission; 'BLOWBACK'.

You've touched on a number of other points, on one, If I may suggest, If there is anything that can be done at an induvidual level, it is; to the best of your ability to limit the excesses and criminal acts that are perpitrated in your name; AWB wheat, Saddams WMD, Guantanimo, our current gulags, stolen wages of Aboriginals, DFA/ Downer' Timor Leste Oil rip off( and continue'n'cntinue .....) ........... much too much to think about?...... Unfortunatly an all to important element of the way the games played. So' best to expect some 'blowback'.

(my spell check on the fritz)

 

[Julia]

What exactly are you trying to say with this? That we should flagellate ourselves for things that happened many generations ago?
That's pointless. We cannot change history. What we can do is not repeat the mistakes of history.
One of those mistakes is thinking that we can appease an intractable foe whose very objective is to drag us into conflict. The 'try-to-be-nice-to-them' approach will never work.

+1.
So, galumay, more of the equivalent of the many years we have spent wringing our collective hands in guilt at treatment of aborigines rather than accepting what needs to be addressed now. Where will that get us?
How has the insistence of the ongoing wearing of guilt by the Left with respect to indigenous people actually improved their situation? It hasn't, not one iota.

What has helped is Noel Pearson's insistence that his people take responsibility for their own outcomes, decline to spend the rest of their lives on welfare, and create a future for themselves with the help of the rest of the population. His Cape York program has been very successful, and even the Left are forced to acknowledge his statesmanship and wisdom.

The parallels with the terror situation are clear imo. Thinking that such simplistic stuff as "Ill Ride with You" is going to sort it out is naive in the extreme.

I don't think many would disagree about the invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq being irrational and provocative, ensuring more instability in the area than would have been the case even under the continued oppression of Saddam. There is much to be said for not interfering in cultures about which we have minimal understanding.

However, when 'our' very way of life is under threat, it seems unlikely to me that a passive, accepting acquiesence will ensure our stable future. You are not dealing with rational, co-operative people here, rather those driven by an insane adherence to an imaginary God.

 

[SirRumpole]

You are not dealing with rational, co-operative people here, rather those driven by an insane adherence to an imaginary God.

The insanity is not believing in a God, but thinking they know what It wants of them.

Different tribes have made up stories of what God wants to suit themselves, ie "their" God always works for his chosen people, according to the men who wrote the scriptures, and other tribes are less favoured by this particular version of God. So we have a Christian god, a Jewish god, a Muslim god etc.

That idea really is the source of all the conflict. If there is a God then all of mankind is his creation, so why should one tribe get all the attention ? The sadness of religion is that people who believe in God can't even understand this simple logic. It's all about their tribe, because theirs is the only "true" God, their tribal leaders said so.

Incredibly stupid.

 

[Tisme]

The insanity is not believing in a God, but thinking they know what It wants of them.

....Incredibly stupid.

Luckily for us Nostradamus is there for the bookies:

8 Q70

He will enter, wicked, unpleasant, infamous,
Tyrannizing over Mesopotamia [Iraq]
All friends made by the adulterous lady,
The land dreadful and black of aspect.

Filling in the gaps:

ISIS will enter, wicked, unpleasant, infamous, tyrannizing over Mesopotamia (Iraq). All friends made by the adulterous lady [Liberty]! Rendering Iraq a land dreadful and black of aspect. To those of the black flags of ISIS, to the Crusaders’ black-hooded enemies, it is their law that shall hold. It shall be victorious against those of the double-crossing cross bearers.

http://www.hogueprophecy.com/2014/0...uts-obama-on-isis-robin-williams-in-memoriam/

 

[Tisme]

Chinese authorities have banned women in Urumqi, the capital city of Xinjiang—an autonomous western region where Muslims account for almost half of the population—from wearing burqas in public, according to a brief article on a government-run website, Tianshan News. Local legislators for Urumqi proposed the ban in December, and now the regional legislature has approved it.

.......


http://qz.com/324805/china-has-just-banned-the-burqa-in-its-biggest-muslim-city/

China is in the midst of a crackdown on what it describes as "terrorism driven by religious extremism". The campaign is focused on the western province of Xinjiang, home to China's Uighur ethnic minority who are predominantly Muslim.

The government believes religion breeds terror and has been trying to control religious expression in the region by imposing rules on the Uighur community. Critics say it is exaggerating the terror problem.

The murals below were painted on the walls next to a mosque in the old Silk Road district of Kashgar where 90% of the population are Uighur.

They show what the Chinese government deems as acceptable and unacceptable behaviour. They are a striking example of Chinese propaganda and highlight the government's crude portrayal of ethnic relations in Xinjiang.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-30722268

 

[Tisme]

Gongs For Heros of Martin Place Seige

It seems Rev Fred Nile objects to bravery awards for the blokes who ran from the café, leaving the weaker sex behind (before you saddle up the high horses, I'm paraphrasing for effect).

Having thought about it, I reckon it would take a lot to overcome the fear of survival and run for a door that increases the odds of a direct hit from a madman's shotgun. I'm not sure about the notion we should sacrifice our safety in favour of women, although I confess I probably would.

It's a conundrum.

 

[SirRumpole]

Gongs For Heros of Martin Place Seige

It seems Rev Fred Nile objects to bravery awards for the blokes who ran from the café, leaving the weaker sex behind (before you saddle up the high horses, I'm paraphrasing for effect).

Having thought about it, I reckon it would take a lot to overcome the fear of survival and run for a door that increases the odds of a direct hit from a madman's shotgun. I'm not sure about the notion we should sacrifice our safety in favour of women, although I confess I probably would.

It's a conundrum.

We can't really say what we would do under circumstances we have not be subjected to.

Blind rationalisation says run for it when you can, we can then at least give information to the police regarding what's going on inside. However chivalry could trump logic at the time, who knows ?

 

[dutchie]

Is it ever....

The horrific aftermath of Boko Haram massacre on Nigerian villages: Before and after satellite images lay bare destruction caused by militants in attack that killed 2,500 people

Infra-red satellite images show destruction of 'densely populated' towns
One witness says terrorists shot and killed a woman who was in labour
Estimated 2,500 people killed, and more than 3,700 structures were razed
Extremist group, Boko Haram, decimated towns of Baga and Doron Baga
One of the towns 'nearly wiped off the map', says Amnesty International
Survivors describe fleeing over dead bodies of people 'killed like insects'


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...attack-killed-2-500-people.html#ixzz3Ot2SXLVy
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

 

[Calliope]

Is it ever....

The horrific aftermath of Boko Haram massacre on Nigerian villages: Before and after satellite images lay bare destruction caused by militants in attack that killed 2,500 people

Infra-red satellite images show destruction of 'densely populated' towns
One witness says terrorists shot and killed a woman who was in labour
Estimated 2,500 people killed, and more than 3,700 structures were razed
Extremist group, Boko Haram, decimated towns of Baga and Doron Baga
One of the towns 'nearly wiped off the map', says Amnesty International
Survivors describe fleeing over dead bodies of people 'killed like insects'


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...attack-killed-2-500-people.html#ixzz3Ot2SXLVy
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

The chattering class keep rabbiting agout the moderate Islamists and how we should be nice to them. What are the 'moderate" Islamists doing to rein in Boko Haram? Nothing.

 

[Tisme]

The chattering class keep rabbiting agout the moderate Islamists and how we should be nice to them. What are the 'moderate" Islamists doing to rein in Boko Haram? Nothing.

Well of course there is no such thing as moderate Islam, because Islam commands total obedience to the "suras" which are a journey of fairly benign in(doctrines) that lead the reader onward to bloodlust towards the end (if you can workout the beginning and the end).

Each sura overrides the previous where ambiguity exists, this abrogation ( al-naskh wa al-mansukh) is supposedly because God kept changing his mood to suit the prevailing circumstances of Muhammad's journey through life's trials and tribulations ..... through God's mouthpiece and resident trumpeter Gabriel of course. The big problem is the Quran suras are not time stamped over the twenty year span, but sorted by size.

Without knowing what the chronological order really is, it's assumed Muhammad became increasingly bloodthirsty as his military might increased (and obviously God's frustration with the pace of sales of his rebadged, rejigged Jew and Christian product for the Arab market). Apparently there is no problem for true believers in weeding out the hierarchy of Muslim needs (overriding and defunct suras), because the true believers are Arab and Arabs have a special God codec gene built into them.

So it seems the "moderate" Islamists is a falsehood, because true Islamists are only Arab and as Arabs they have congenital oneness with God who managed 20 years of his busy schedule to give an instructional, but hasn't been since .. presumably still handing out messianic messages to Gabriel for delivery to prophets on other planets (that he hopefully took more than a week to make after the first failure).

 

[Bintang]

So it seems the "moderate" Islamists is a falsehood, because true Islamists are only Arab and as Arabs they have congenital oneness with God who managed 20 years of his busy schedule to give an instructional, but hasn't been since .. presumably still handing out messianic messages to Gabriel for delivery to prophets on other planets (that he hopefully took more than a week to make after the first failure).

+1
ROTFL

 

[SirRumpole]

I think there may be some tongue in cheek in Tisme's dissertation.

So what do we make of Boko Haram (African not Arab), Jema'ah Islamiyah (Indonesian not Arab), and all the other Muslim offshoots in Africa and Eastern Europe ?

Islamic terrorism seems a multi headed hydra, with local dialects springing up to suit local conditions and barmy clerics in the area.

 

[Calliope]

There is no doubt that the so-called moderate muslims do support offensive jihad.

 

[SirRumpole]

There is no doubt that the so-called moderate muslims do support offensive jihad.

And your evidences is, a cartoon ?

Yeah right.

 

[chiff]

There is no doubt that the so-called moderate muslims do support offensive jihad.

I am in Malaysia at the moment...I think that your cartoon is,what you say,putting it nicely,crap.

 

[Calliope]

Obviously Cliff and Rumpy support the concept of "moderate' Islamists. I would like to see your evidence Rumpy, in support of this concept, as it applies in Australia and Europe. I notice you are always asking others for evidence, but very light on supplyig any yourself. Now's your chance.

Perhaps you can refute this.for starters.

http://counterjihadreport.com/2013/...wi-muslim-moderates-endorse-aggressive-jihad/

 

[Bintang]

I am in Malaysia at the moment...I think that your cartoon is,what you say,putting it nicely,crap.

What is the punishment for apostasy in Muslim countries? I know it varies.
How about Malaysia?