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Islam: Is it inherently Evil?

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Who is it that needs a psychiatrist.....?
That is a great example of islam in action when it comes to free speech and how ideas are contested. Well done to Sam Harris and others involved in helping him get out and possibly saving his life.
 
qldfrog said:
Read the Koran yet Basilio?
Click to expand...

The Koran doesn’t have anything in that the Bible doesn’t also have, the only issue is that the Bible has less people taking it seriously these days.

After the Koran is simple part 3 of the same story.

(Before anyone has a knee jerk reaction and says something like “the Bible doesn’t say to kill non believers” please do a google search on the topic)
 
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basilio said:
Check it out.

What happened when I met my Islamophobic troll
Illustration: Guardian Design/Christophe Gowans
In 2017, I started getting regular messages from an anonymous Twitter user telling me my religion was ‘evil’. Eventually I responded – and he agreed to meet face to face. By Hussein Kesvani

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2019/may/23/what-happened-when-i-met-my-islamophobic-troll
Click to expand...

I wonder if it was a bs article?

Couple of "true brits" around.

https://mobile.twitter.com/sayingwhatucant

https://mobile.twitter.com/truebrit18


https://mobile.twitter.com/bornandbredbrit
 
Value Collector said:
The Koran doesn’t have anything in that the Bible doesn’t also have, the only issue is that the Bible has less people taking it seriously these days.

After the Koran is simple part 3 of the same story.

(Before anyone has a knee jerk reaction and says something like “the Bible doesn’t say to kill non believers” please do a google search on the topic)
Click to expand...

It is true that the old testament of the bible (not the doctrine of Christianity) is almost as evil as the Koran. There are several big differences. The main relevant difference is that while the Jews are commanded to kill or enslave everyone who isn't a Jew, they don't encourage others to join, indeed, they make it very difficult and it's pretty much actively discouraged. If not for this fact, Judaism would have taken over the world by now. Even if this had happened, one very important thing which functionally (not fundamentally but practically) makes Judaism far less violent and problematic, especially internally, is that it is not so fanatical. It is far more liberal. As an example of the fanaticism, Islam says that anyone who questions or doubts a single word of the Koran must be killed. Judaism is far more relaxed. Islam also promises a ticket to Heaven with virgins you can rape if you die killing infidels. Judaism doesn't have anything quite so insidious.

And it may be worth noting that 'it's in the bible' is often used to falsely imply that it is part of Christianity. The old testament is genocidal, and yes, it is also fundamentally evil. It is the second most evil major world religion after Islam, and one of only two significantly evil major religions. Unlike Abraham and Mohamed, Jesus was not a warmonger or rapist, he never killed anyone, he was against slavery, he said love your enemy and turn the other cheek. The other two literally said 'exterminate or enslave everyone who is not one of us' and used various forms of terrorism and warfare to achieve those goals, which any sane person should recognise as evil.

Again, this is not to say all Jewish people are evil (indeed, few of them take the doctrine seriously these days, which is good, because the doctrine literally tells them they must commit genocide, and teaches that genocide is a part of their people's history they should be proud of and continue, and it is largely based in fact). But the religion itself is extremely evil. Anything which promotes genocide, rape, slavery, etc, is evil. If you can't see that there is something wrong with you.

I'm pretty sure no one in this thread has said 'Jews are evil' and I don't think anyone has said 'Muslims are evil', and I don't think it would be good to say either of those things, but both doctrines command members to be evil, and that is fundamentally evil. The religions/doctrines are evil if they command people to commit evil acts. Surely we would all agree that something which doesn't just promote or encourage but literally commands people to commit evil acts is an evil thing, and surely we can all agree that killing innocent people, raping innocent women, etc etc, are evil. It's ridiculous for this to even be questioned, but we do indeed live in a ridiculous world.
 
Sdajii said:
It is true that the old testament of the bible (not the doctrine of Christianity) is almost as evil as the Koran. There are several big differences. The main relevant difference is that while the Jews are commanded to kill or enslave everyone who isn't a Jew, they don't encourage others to join, indeed, they make it very difficult and it's pretty much actively discouraged. If not for this fact, Judaism would have taken over the world by now. Even if this had happened, one very important thing which functionally (not fundamentally but practically) makes Judaism far less violent and problematic, especially internally, is that it is not so fanatical. It is far more liberal. As an example of the fanaticism, Islam says that anyone who questions or doubts a single word of the Koran must be killed. Judaism is far more relaxed. Islam also promises a ticket to Heaven with virgins you can rape if you die killing infidels. Judaism doesn't have anything quite so insidious.

And it may be worth noting that 'it's in the bible' is often used to falsely imply that it is part of Christianity. The old testament is genocidal, and yes, it is also fundamentally evil. It is the second most evil major world religion after Islam, and one of only two significantly evil major religions. Unlike Abraham and Mohamed, Jesus was not a warmonger or rapist, he never killed anyone, he was against slavery, he said love your enemy and turn the other cheek. The other two literally said 'exterminate or enslave everyone who is not one of us' and used various forms of terrorism and warfare to achieve those goals, which any sane person should recognise as evil.

Again, this is not to say all Jewish people are evil (indeed, few of them take the doctrine seriously these days, which is good, because the doctrine literally tells them they must commit genocide, and teaches that genocide is a part of their people's history they should be proud of and continue, and it is largely based in fact). But the religion itself is extremely evil. Anything which promotes genocide, rape, slavery, etc, is evil. If you can't see that there is something wrong with you.

I'm pretty sure no one in this thread has said 'Jews are evil' and I don't think anyone has said 'Muslims are evil', and I don't think it would be good to say either of those things, but both doctrines command members to be evil, and that is fundamentally evil. The religions/doctrines are evil if they command people to commit evil acts. Surely we would all agree that something which doesn't just promote or encourage but literally commands people to commit evil acts is an evil thing, and surely we can all agree that killing innocent people, raping innocent women, etc etc, are evil. It's ridiculous for this to even be questioned, but we do indeed live in a ridiculous world.
Click to expand...
We do indeed live in a ridiculous world when people with the mist retarded views on the world and history, be it what an horror islam and its history is, seem to forget what communism was and still is, and seem to adore any brave new world implementation,
dare calling themselves progressive
Where is the real aspirational left gone?
 
qldfrog said:
We do indeed live in a ridiculous world when people with the mist retarded views on the world and history, be it what an horror islam and its history is, seem to forget what communism was and still is, and seem to adore any brave new world implementation,
dare calling themselves progressive
Where is the real aspirational left gone?
Click to expand...

I agree that many people are ridiculously and destructively ignorant of history and a move towards communism is not progress since communism is nothing new, it is something old with a perfect record of failure, usually outright horrific failure, but bringing communism into the discussion here is a little off topic unless I'm missing something.
 
Sdajii said:
It is true that the old testament of the bible (not the doctrine of Christianity) .
Click to expand...

That’s not really true, the Old Testament forms part of the doctrine of many brands of Christianity, to make out that the teachings of the Old Testament are ignored by Christians is simply wrong both historically and in present day.

We are just fortunate that on average Christianity is not taken seriously by its followers.
 
Value Collector said:
That’s not really true, the Old Testament forms part of the doctrine of many brands of Christianity, to make out that the teachings of the Old Testament are ignored by Christians is simply wrong both historically and in present day.

We are just fortunate that on average Christianity is not taken seriously by its followers.
Click to expand...
The west and Christianity has (err, had) progressed from the medieval legalism of control by Catholisim, seemingly intent to regress into medieval legalism of control by Islam.
 
chiff said:
Has anyone on this forum really read the Koran or the Bible?If so -why would you do it?
Click to expand...
Value Collector said:
That’s not really true, the Old Testament forms part of the doctrine of many brands of Christianity, to make out that the teachings of the Old Testament are ignored by Christians is simply wrong both historically and in present day.

We are just fortunate that on average Christianity is not taken seriously by its followers.
Click to expand...

You are confusing 'Christianity' and 'Christians'.

The doctrine of Christianity can either be described as what Jesus taught (I would argue this is the correct way to define it) or what is actually taught by any branch of Christianity (which gets nebulous and debatable). Either way, Jesus never killed anyone or told anyone to kill anyone and no branch of Christianity (other than perhaps an irrelevant tiny minority which would not be taken seriously by the rest of it) says we should kill.

Yes, some Christians including Christian leaders do make the mistake of thinking the Old Testament is their own doctrine. That doesn't make the religion bad, it makes those individuals wrong. And if (I don't actually think there has ever been any sect of Christianity which has ever done it, but let's play devil's advocate for you) some sect of Christianity did adopt the genocidal, rapey, etc aspects of the Old Testament, then yes, absolutely, that sect of Christianity would be evil. But that's getting as absurd as me saying that I represent veganism or Buddhism or feminism and get myself a few followers and start saying we need to torture kittens and dismember children, and saying that veganism or Buddhism or feminism was evil for that reason.

The question of Islam is much easier to define because it is unchangeable, indeed, changing a single word of it is punishable by death (this in itself is clearly evil and only a mentally inept person would argue otherwise). Because of this, the Koran exists in only one original version which has never changed. It is very evil. This is not debatable in any reasonable way. And yes, the doctrine of Judaism is also evil. Not quite as evil, but still clearly evil. The actual true doctrine of Christianity is not really evil, and you can only call it evil by misrepresenting it, unless you are talking about much lesser evils such as convincing people to believe in fiction.

What individual Christians, Jews or Muslims choose to do or believe and whether or not they are evil is a very different question. Most people would agree that most individual people in each of those groups are not evil.

But to say that a person can lead people into genocide and terrorism and while a doctrine which commands people to commit genocide, terrorism, rape and slavery, and that doctrine is not evil, makes you fool.
 
Sdajii said:
You are confusing 'Christianity' and 'Christians'.

The doctrine of Christianity can either be described as what Jesus taught (I would argue this is the correct way to define it) or what is actually taught by any branch of Christianity (which gets nebulous and debatable). Either way, Jesus never killed anyone or told anyone to kill anyone and no branch of Christianity (other than perhaps an irrelevant tiny minority which would not be taken seriously by the rest of it) says we should kill.

Yes, some Christians including Christian leaders do make the mistake of thinking the Old Testament is their own doctrine. That doesn't make the religion bad, it makes those individuals wrong. And if (I don't actually think there has ever been any sect of Christianity which has ever done it, but let's play devil's advocate for you) some sect of Christianity did adopt the genocidal, rapey, etc aspects of the Old Testament, then yes, absolutely, that sect of Christianity would be evil. But that's getting as absurd as me saying that I represent veganism or Buddhism or feminism and get myself a few followers and start saying we need to torture kittens and dismember children, and saying that veganism or Buddhism or feminism was evil for that reason.

The question of Islam is much easier to define because it is unchangeable, indeed, changing a single word of it is punishable by death (this in itself is clearly evil and only a mentally inept person would argue otherwise). Because of this, the Koran exists in only one original version which has never changed. It is very evil. This is not debatable in any reasonable way. And yes, the doctrine of Judaism is also evil. Not quite as evil, but still clearly evil. The actual true doctrine of Christianity is not really evil, and you can only call it evil by misrepresenting it, unless you are talking about much lesser evils such as convincing people to believe in fiction.

What individual Christians, Jews or Muslims choose to do or believe and whether or not they are evil is a very different question. Most people would agree that most individual people in each of those groups are not evil.

But to say that a person can lead people into genocide and terrorism and while a doctrine which commands people to commit genocide, terrorism, rape and slavery, and that doctrine is not evil, makes you fool.
Click to expand...

You said Christianity doesn’t base any doctrines on the Old Testament, which it clearly does.

Even if you want to limit it to what Jesus said, Jesus himself preaches doctrines from the Old Testament, for example the 10 commandments, and he talks about genesis, he also states he didn’t come to change any of the old rules.

I didn’t say Jesus told anyone to kill anybody (although he did say some things that seem like he is ok with violence on some level, such as saying he didn’t come to bring peace he came to bring the sword, and when he tells stories about killing people they aren’t always negative in nature.

In Luke 19:27, Jesus says this


But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

It’s a parable, but it doesn’t seem he is against the concepts
 
SirRumpole said:
Yes, as opposed to Islam, which we don't want to take root in this country.
Click to expand...

We can’t get rid of Islam, just as we can’t get rid of Christianity, all we can do is hope that the trend continues and religions become less and less serious in their followers minds.

Attacking a religion doesn’t help, religions thrive on persecution, ISIS them selves said they love it when westerners target moderate Muslims, and want to ban the burqa etc, it makes it easier for isis to recruit a young male if he crew up feeling like an outcast and saw his parents snubbed by the rest of society.
 

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