Islam: Is it inherently Evil?

[Value Collector]

Gee, all you need to do is type "australia mosques noise" and you can come up with :

Gee, all you need to do is type "australia Church noise" and you can come up with :


http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...e/news-story/20708cb241973a77050e885fa9d127d5

 

[SirRumpole]

Gee, all you need to do is type "australia Church noise" and you can come up with :


http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...e/news-story/20708cb241973a77050e885fa9d127d5

If your implication is that Christian churches make noise too, as far as I'm concerned if they annoy residents they should be asked to tone it down. They don't do it 5 times a day every day though.

 

[Value Collector]

If your implication is that Christian churches make noise too, as far as I'm concerned if they annoy residents they should be asked to tone it down. They don't do it 5 times a day every day though.

I don't know how often they do it, however I recently stayed two nights in another city, my hotel was next to a church and on a Wednesday and a Thursday I was woken by church bells at 8am, and they rang at various times throughout the day.

I didn't pay attention to which Brand of christians they were, and it didn't both me so much because I was only there two days.

But I think the Urge to make everyone in ear shot aware of your worship is a religious thing, not limited to Islam.

 

[Value Collector]

I don't claim to be that musical myself, But church bells sound annoying like a child bashing away on some old pots.

I mean take a listen to this, forget about any religious symbolism and just listen to the sound, sure a member of the religion might like it, but to those not indoctrinated and those that don't feign respect for such things, this sounds rubbish.

 

[SirRumpole]

I don't claim to be that musical myself, But church bells sound annoying like a child bashing away on some old pots.

I mean take a listen to this, forget about any religious symbolism and just listen to the sound, sure a member of the religion might like it, but to those not indoctrinated and those that don't feign respect for such things, this sounds rubbish.

I agree, and I don't find anything musical about the "Call to Prayer" either. It sounds like someone wailing in pain.

 

[basilio]

I followed up the link you offered Sir Rumpole on noisy mosques. There are issues but I thought the comments at the end of the story summed up the situation appropriately

They had also spoken to the mosque's management committee about the issues raised by residents.

"Local laws officers have attended the mosque half a dozen times during the past six months and issued infringement notices where cars have been parked illegally. Local laws officers are continuing to visit the area to ensure cars are parked legally,'' she said.

"Banyule Council is currently arranging a meeting with the management committee of the mosque to discuss resident complaints and work with them to identify longer term, sustainable solutions to the concerns raised.''

She said issues with noise and parking were common with places of worship, and it was not specific to mosques.

 

[luutzu]

That's not the Lakemba Mosque. At least not from the front.

 

[luutzu]

Deftly put Luutzu... Lots of different ways of making noises in public places arn't there ?

Grand Pricks races are pretty notorious. I understand that footy crowds can be quite chirpy too. Particularly xxxxes off people who don't follow the AFL football religion. But they sort of have to get used to it I suppose.

When you think about it there are a million noises in the city. Just people living, moving, walking, playing, praying. Live and let live.

Yea, Muslim footy fans make more noise whenever Canterburry Bulldogs get to the final. Which hasn't been too frequent, judging by the lack of honking and the occasional backyard fireworks each time that happen.

 

[luutzu]

Gee, all you need to do is type "australia mosques noise" and you can come up with :

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/leader/...s/news-story/081c0f7682ff0bd0ac2acd83eeb0bc43

I spent a couple of years in Malaysia as a kid. Trust me, if there's a call to prayer, let alone five times a day, you'll noticed.

 

[SirRumpole]

She said issues with noise and parking were common with places of worship, and it was not specific to mosques.

I didn't say it was, but Muslims do their bit 5 times a day, every day as opposed to a few times a week for other religions.

 

[luutzu]

I'm imagining you, Luutza in a gardeners hut aka The Simpson's Willie located between numerous places of worship.

I do live in a tin shed, so yea

There's three Churches within a block where I live. Though I don't noticed much activity at the Korean or the other older, smaller one. But then I don't wake up that early or do much walking around to know if they're just empty churches.

 

[luutzu]

I didn't say it was, but Muslims do their bit 5 times a day, every day as opposed to a few times a week for other religions.

I think that if you're a really religious Christian, you can attend Church daily.

My in-law does. And once or twice a week they volunteer through the Church group.

Apparently you kind of have to "donate" each time you attend Church. It pays for the rental and electricity for that hour.

Smart business move. The flock volunteer their time and effort, in return they get to also pay for everything the Church provide. Then whenever they have some big project in mind, like building a bigger Church or something, the flock then give more money, more time and effort.

Come to think of it, maybe all the volunteer's weekly visit to nursing homes aren't so much about socialising with the elderly, it's a marketing and recruitment campaign.

Buddhists too... if you pay a higher fee, your loved one's ashes rest at a higher level and be closer to Buddha's statue.

 

[SirRumpole]

I think that if you're a really religious Christian, you can attend Church daily.

My in-law does. And once or twice a week they volunteer through the Church group.

Apparently you kind of have to "donate" each time you attend Church. It pays for the rental and electricity for that hour.

Fine , how many times a week do they ring the bells and have a full choir singing ?

 

[smallwolf]

luutzu,

(off-topic) it sorta does pay for rental... the only money the anglican church gets is via giving or donations. a church build is not different to house, property wise. there is building maintenance and repairs to take care of, electricity bills, insurance, internet and phone bills etc. not all churches are like hillsong or other megachurches you might see on TV.

Come to think of it, maybe all the volunteer's weekly visit to nursing homes aren't so much about socialising with the elderly, it's a marketing and recruitment campaign

bit cynical?

 

[smallwolf]

Fine , how many times a week do they ring the bells and have a full choir singing ?

where I live (in Brisbane)... there is one morning service on Wed, a Sat night service, and 2 services on Sunday (at 7am and 9.30am). Choir only sings at the 9.30am service only. Bells at the 7am and 9.30am service on Sun.

At SFC ... there are morning, midday and evening services each day, and bells at each service. But no choir - at least to my knowledge.

the point is... it depends on the location and demographic.

 

[luutzu]

luutzu,

(off-topic) it sorta does pay for rental... the only money the anglican church gets is via giving or donations. a church build is not different to house, property wise. there is building maintenance and repairs to take care of, electricity bills, insurance, internet and phone bills etc. not all churches are like hillsong or other megachurches you might see on TV.



bit cynical?

Yea I suppose the rentals and power bills are understandable. But how much of the donation goes towards that and how much to the Bishop's coffer is hard to tell.

I mean there are some three collection rounds at each mass right? A couple bucks each person adds up to a lot. Power is expensive, but not that expensive.

Also heard that the first round of donation goes to Rome, the second goes to the Sydney/major city Bishop, the third goes to the local Church community. I don't see much of that being use to house the homeless and feeding the poor. They sure does afford plenty of marble and sandstone buildings though.

As to the volunteer visiting the old folks... I'm sure the volunteer themselves just does it to be good citizens/Christians. And the people they do visit, from what I heard, like the company. To the Church leader though... different objectives.

You know... oh hey, you're about to kick the bucket. Time to join and have your sins cleared.. and those estates, ahem ahem... the Church sure could do with a lot of cash. Yea, I'm gonna burn in Hell.

 

[luutzu]

Fine , how many times a week do they ring the bells and have a full choir singing ?

There's no bells where I live. Not poshy enough a neighbourhood for bell towers. As to the choir, no idea as I'm an indoor kind of guy so I don't count. But I know that they ramp up the volume and rehearsals around important holy days.

Anyway, I'm not complaining about the noise or such. My place have doors and windows to shut out stuff if I need to. Point is, as VC said, making noise isn't a Muslim thing. All religion does it.

 

[smallwolf]

I mean there are some three collection rounds at each mass right? A couple bucks each person adds up to a lot. Power is expensive, but not that expensive.

possibly, but that would depend on the church and/or denomination ... anglican services typically have single offertory between the peace and thanksgiving.

but... you are (parially) correct in that a percentage of income is handed over the diocese.

but... not all parishes have 100s of people in the pews these days. not all parishes can afford a priest. I am also a warden at an anglican church, and have a recent budget in front of me, and income is slightly ahead of the expenses. but we are one of the lucky ones. there are parishes in my city where giving is less than budgeted which then impacts on ability to run the parish.

 

[luutzu]

possibly, but that would depend on the church and/or denomination ... anglican services typically have single offertory between the peace and thanksgiving.

but... you are (parially) correct in that a percentage of income is handed over the diocese.

but... not all parishes have 100s of people in the pews these days. not all parishes can afford a priest. I am also a warden at an anglican church, and have a recent budget in front of me, and income is slightly ahead of the expenses. but we are one of the lucky ones. there are parishes in my city where giving is less than budgeted which then impacts on ability to run the parish.

A bit awkward now Getting hot in here or what?

personally though, I think every charity and religious organisation should be run at break-even. Or even be at a "loss". That's how good work and community services are being contributed to the community rather than the community contributing. I mean, money isn't doing any good sitting in some trust account.

I'm not saying the local parish and such does that... But heard that the diocese of Sydney has some $1B in a trust account? To do what? Save for a rainy day? There are homeless people everywhere in Sydney. They could use some of that cash. There are small parishes, give some to them so they can help their local community.

I guess it's one of those chicken-egg problem. If the community see what the Church is doing to help the local community and those in need, they might just donate more; or give and otherwise help more. But if they see nothing's given back, and little is given back because there's nothing to give, because the upper echelon want a safety cushion of cash.

 

[smallwolf]

I'm not saying the local parish and such does that... But heard that the diocese of Sydney has some $1B in a trust account? To do what? Save for a rainy day? There are homeless people everywhere in Sydney. They could use some of that cash. There are small parishes, give some to them so they can help their local community.

again, depends.... for example, some people donate money on the condition that is NOT used for certain functions and can only be placed in a trust fund and you live off the interest.

but as far a relationship between the community and churches are concerned... this could be improved and recent events and history has not done the church any favors. in some respect, the way the way the church does operate could be improved.