Islam: Is it inherently Evil?

[SirRumpole]

Thanks for that Joe. From my perspective I fear that generalising the actions of IS across all the Islamic community is just giving them victory on a plate. The stated objective of OS is to create a war between Islam and the West. Why do we want to buy into such a devastating outcome ?

Clearly we need to stop IS and create a constructive relationship with all people including Muslims. Treating all Muslims as potential terrorists is as crackers as treating all Americans as potential war mongers or all men as potential rapists and .. hopefully it's clear.

The poisonous danger is the title of this thread and the underlying question/assumption. I have always been concerned about it as unnecessarily inflammatory and sure enough much of the posting has followed that lead.

If you are insinuating that we should not criticise an ideology that motivates people to kill others, I respectively must disagree with you.

 

[Tisme]

Thanks for that Joe. From my perspective I fear that generalising the actions of IS across all the Islamic community is just giving them victory on a plate.

how so? Did we give China and Russia a victory on a plate? Howse their communism and agression going now?

The stated objective of OS is to create a war between Islam and the West. Why do we want to buy into such a devastating outcome ?

Because someone is picking a fight doesn't mean a fight is avoidable nor unwarranted. History is littered with leaders who thought they could rely on a compact rather than domination.

Clearly we need to stop IS and create a constructive relationship with all people including Muslims. Treating all Muslims as potential terrorists is as crackers as treating all Americans as potential war mongers or all men as potential rapists and .. hopefully it's clear.

Why do you assume Muslims aren't potential terrorists or their supporters? We saw a whole nation in Germany and Ireland turn into animals. We recently saw the USA vote in Donald Trump....never underestimate the gullibility and tribal loyalties of the masses.

The poisonous danger is the title of this thread and the underlying question/assumption. I have always been concerned about it as unnecessarily inflammatory and sure enough much of the posting has followed that lead.

That assumes the people you are defending are stupid enough to feel hurt over the stuff posted here

 

[luutzu]

If you are insinuating that we should not criticise an ideology that motivates people to kill others, I respectively must disagree with you.

And what ideology murdered those kids in Manchester? Islam or Terrorism? They're not the same thing.

By all mean criticise Islam, poke holes into its beliefs and hierarchies etc. etc. But also, to be fair, are other religion any different? Name one other religion that doesn't have a similar belief system about God, Creation, saints and sinners, infidels and crusaders. And no, those religion still believe the same tales and commandments as written down by the prophets or the saints from either God Himself or the Son of Heaven.

how so? Did we give China and Russia a victory on a plate? Howse their communism and agression going now?



Because someone is picking a fight doesn't mean a fight is avoidable nor unwarranted. History is littered with leaders who thought they could rely on a compact rather than domination.



Why do you assume Muslims aren't potential terrorists or their supporters? We saw a whole nation in Germany and Ireland turn into animals. We recently saw the USA vote in Donald Trump....never underestimate the gullibility and tribal loyalties of the masses.




That assumes the people you are defending are stupid enough to feel hurt over the stuff posted here

Whole new level of respect for you McGee. Honestly.

And here I did wondered whether your late wife was the better half and forced you into adopting those kids.

 

[dutchie]

Every muslim is a potential terrorist, the Koran instructs them to be.
Why on earth should we take the risk. There is no upside.

 

[basilio]

So which unhinged individual has hijacked Tismes account ? Truly post 2762 has some of the most illogical, nasty and hopelessly wrong comments I have ever heard.

Since when did ISIS speak on behalf of every Muslim? We are fighting ISIS not trying to take on a billion plus people and destroy the economic and political structures around the world.

During WW2/IRA troubles political common sense and humanity stopped most people from wanting to crucify every Irishman and every German.

And your coup de grace
"That assumes the people you are defending are stupid enough to feel hurt over the stuff posted here"
So. Far. OFF
Whoever you are. Get a grip on yourself. IMO that post should not be on this forum.

 

[luutzu]

So which unhinged individual has hijacked Tismes account ? Truly post 2762 has some of the most illogical, nasty and hopelessly wrong comments I have ever heard.

Since when did ISIS speak on behalf of every Muslim? We are fighting ISIS not trying to take on a billion plus people and destroy the economic and political structures around the world.

During WW2/IRA troubles political common sense and humanity stopped most people from wanting to crucify every Irishman and every German.

And your coup de grace
"That assumes the people you are defending are stupid enough to feel hurt over the stuff posted here"
So. Far. OFF
Whoever you are. Get a grip on yourself. IMO that post should not be on this forum.

I could be wrong, very wrong, about this but the thing to do when reading Tisme's post is, first, recognise that he have that Irish sense of humour; second, he's a closeted liberal.

He's quite impressive if you don't take what he say at face value. Though sometime, it's a bit tough to know. Could very just be that he's off his meds now and then.

 

[luutzu]

Every muslim is a potential terrorist, the Koran instructs them to be.
Why on earth should we take the risk. There is no upside.

We take risks because we're explorers and pioneers, dam it.

 

[basilio]

The current vitriol on this thread has sprung from the terrorist attack in Manchester. I reckon George Monbiot has taken the best pitch on where to go from this horror.

Don’t let psychopathic murderers suppress our common humanity

George Monbiot
In the face of horror, let no one distract us from the magnificent facts of our nature: neither the terrorists nor those who demand we lash out
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Wednesday 24 May 2017 04.08 AEST Last modified on Wednesday 24 May 2017 14.18 AEST

It is a blow to the heart: an atrocity whose purpose was to kill and maim as many children and teenagers as possible. No parent, hearing the voices of those still seeking news of their children, could fail to imagine the frantic play of hope and despair, the terrible wrenching of attachment. The person or people who did this meant to hit where it hurts most, and they succeeded.

The purpose of terrorism, whether perpetrated by lone attackers, organisations or states, is not only to change political outcomes: it is to demoralise the people at whom it is aimed, to erode and degrade their humanity. Attacking a concert crammed with happy young people, detonating a bomb apparently stuffed with nails and bolts, is the clearest possible statement of such intent.

It also allows us to see how we should respond. The terrorists want to drive us apart, to sow suspicion and fear, to oblige us to replace liberty with security and answer them with bombs and bullets of our own. For a terrorist organisation any of this, if implemented, would mean mission accomplished. So we should do the opposite. We defy them by proving that this is not what we are. And the proof is everywhere.

.....This is why terrorism happens: those who perpetrate it know that an attack on one is an attack on all. People are killed or injured in order to maximise the distress suffered by a far greater number – and to induce us, blinded by outrage, to forget our humanity and to lash out. This then cultivates a political environment in which terrorists prosper: a nation dominated by fear, a cycle of revenge, and the escalation of conflict.

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...pathic-murderers-manchester-attack-terrorists

 

[SirRumpole]

Since when did ISIS speak on behalf of every Muslim? We are fighting ISIS not trying to take on a billion plus people and destroy the economic and political structures around the world.

I think you just have to look at how things are done in virtually every Muslim country in the world. Those that have always been extreme show no signs of changing, and those that were once moderate are becoming more hardline.

Two men today are about to be or already have been tortured in Indonesia for activities which are their own business and nobody elses. Young girls are flogged there for being alone with their boyfriends. Women are stoned for being raped, people are beheaded for marrying who they choose.

Do you really blame people like me for not wanting these things to happen here ? The more Muslims there are in this country, the closer we get to a repressive theocracy that occurs in other Muslim controlled or dominated countries elsewhere.

 

[moXJO]

Humanity is for pussies. Nothing like dropping 200 tons of explosive freedom on the problem.

 

[basilio]

Rumpole what is happening in Indonesia under Sharia law is disturbing and dangerous. It does reflect the rise of a repressive element of Islam in that part of Indonesia. The part that does cause concern is if these extremist elements of Islamic faith take control of more political areas - including Australia.

I think it's wrong. I believe they should be resisted and all religions need to accept the the current laws of the land. But I can't see how demonising all Muslims for the behaviour of extreme elements is a constructive approach. But we do need to be upfront that Australia has a clear legal system and that religious imposed laws are not acceptable.

 

[SirRumpole]

But we do need to be upfront that Australia has a clear legal system and that religious imposed laws are not acceptable.

Sure, agreed there, but it will make no difference if Muslims get to be such a political force that they vote away our freedoms and replace it with their repression, and the only way I can see to prevent this happening is to limit their numbers here.

 

[Value Collector]

Sure, agreed there, but it will make no difference if Muslims get to be such a political force that they vote away our freedoms and replace it with their repression, and the only way I can see to prevent this happening is to limit their numbers here.

We never needed laws reducing the number of catholics, to protect ourselves from becoming a Christian theocracy.

Offcourse there is some noisy christians on the side lines always trying to grab power, but the majority of the population won't have it, its the same with the majority of muslims, especially as they become more westernised.

 

[Value Collector]

Humanity is for pussies. Nothing like dropping 200 tons of explosive freedom on the problem.

Have you ever had to actually witness that? or do you just think thats a cool thing to say?

 

[SirRumpole]

We never needed laws reducing the number of catholics, to protect ourselves from becoming a Christian theocracy.

Yes we did, it's called separation of Church and state, but that didn't stop the Catholics getting their paws into politics to preserve their sacred doctrines. The Muslims are no better if they ever get the chance.

 

[Value Collector]

Yes we did, it's called separation of Church and state, but that didn't stop the Catholics getting their paws into politics to preserve their sacred doctrines. The Muslims are no better if they ever get the chance.

There were no laws reducing the number of catholics allowed in the country.

 

[SirRumpole]

There were no laws reducing the number of catholics allowed in the country.

There probably should have been.

 

[moXJO]

Islam is a backwards a$$ religion when it inserts itself at a higher level and is pushed by those that are power hungry. All religions are.

Indonesia was a prime recent example after they jailed Ahok. And it was the vocal minority which took a hold, that was concerning.Numerous other examples coming out of there.
Malaysia is another example.
Extremists are taking hold in numbers and their $hit is staining the moderates who now are voiceless against what is taking hold.

Not discussing the problem is the exact way you create a bigger one. And Islamic immigration is causing problems throughout western countries.

I don't believe Muslims will get a hold here thats just irrational fear. But the extremist base is already well established throughout Sydney. I'm more worried about the consequences of a terrorist attack on peoples already frayed psyche.

 

[moXJO]

Have you ever had to actually witness that? or do you just think thats a cool thing to say?

Suckers always jump.

Yes I have witnessed it. I've pretty much seen it all in these $hitholes. The exact reason why you don't want to import it.

 

[Tisme]

I could be wrong, very wrong, about this but the thing to do when reading Tisme's post is, first, recognise that he have that Irish sense of humour; second, he's a closeted liberal.

He's quite impressive if you don't take what he say at face value. Though sometime, it's a bit tough to know. Could very just be that he's off his meds now and then.

Can you feel the rage !