Islam: Is it inherently Evil?

[Value Collector]

You

What a joke you are Luu.....I was hoping to get some sensible debate on this subject but what else could I expect from the likes of you.

You will have to face reality some day.

you want to have a serious debate about some wackos pie in the sky dream to have succession in western Sydney?

If you think that would happen you are just as crazy as him

 

[luutzu]

What's the best way to hurt despots ? They don't care about their own people. If we send food and medicine supplies to their starving they give them to their soldiers instead so they can continue their reigns of terror over their own people and others.

Let's get this straight. THERE IS NO GOOD WAY TO GET RID OF DESPOTS WITHOUT HURTING ANYONE ELSE. Possibly a nuke on their Presidential Palace, but that would violate UN rules and would kill civilians in the process.

If you can work out a good way to get rid of Bashar al Assad please tell the UN . they would be delighted to hear it.

As far as I know, the UN [United Nations] does not want Assad dead.

Am I saying he's a nice guy? No. He's a dictator.

But did you know that the guy was a medical doctor? By other sources, Syria was getting more and more progressive? The whole country.

But let's say it's bad and nasty... who are we to go and wreck the place, causing hundreds of thousands of death, millions homeless, all infrastructure destroyed.

Better that way than living under a dictator? If so, maybe let the Syrian people decide that.

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Sanctions does not affect the lifestyle of dictators. That's a proven fact. Just look at Kim what's his face. Fat as fark while his people are lucky to have two full meals a day.

Look at Saddam under US sanctions. Live like a king, with more loyal servants and guards who better be loyal or else go starve themselves and their family.

Guess how many ordinary Iraqis suffer from the sanctions? All of them.

The UN estimates some 100,000 to 500,000 Iraqi children died from malnutrition and preventable diseases because of the sanctions. Worth it though right? It got rid of Saddam didn't it?


And if we have to take him out because he kill his own people, gasing the Kurds and just do what dictators do... guess who gave him the gas that gased those Kurds? Guess who arms him and give him weapons? Guess what Secretary of Defense shook his hand while he does all that murdering?

 

[Value Collector]

Because I have a documented history of my family; they were among the earliest of free settlers into Oz and the women played an equally dominant role ... they had to to survive and carve out a minor legacy for their offspring. They came from good "honest" stock in the United Kingdom, where you could be jailed for life if breaking even minor laws, let alone kiddy fiddling.

This argument isn't about Afghan camel trains in the outback, isn't about Armenian migrants from the 50's, Lebanese Christians and the odd Muslim, etc. This argument is the mass influx of people from entrenched barbaric and warring nations who refuse to assimilate into our culture and by & large have no offering to our nation in terms of special expertise. Migration into Oz had a purple patch where migration was based on skills of industry and agriculture with ability to blend into and advance our nation, not hasten its demise into a place of fear.... that time left as PC entered the room.

It's bad enough the bloodstock of the UK and Europe here argue the toss about everything, but at least they put our nation first, not some idealogue that belongs in the 7th century nomad deserts of North Africa and Middle East.

We have a lifestyle our own, and we are giving it up because we don't have the stomache to belly ache about it incase we don't get support or the aggrieved haul us through the courts using biased laws like 18C which were supposed create personal development opportunities instead of sueing for wealth creation and fame.

So you have documented history of your 4000+ grandmothers?

I doubt you do,

For a start I bet any such documentation is only on one parents side, so straight away you lose 2000 grandmothers,

Then it would only be on one of your grandparents side, so you lose another 1000 grandmothers etc

take a look at it, I bet you can't list your 4000 grandmothers, let alone have a single clue about their life or history.

When you claim you have a family tree dating to 1600's, you are fooling yourself, it would be little more than a single branch, in a huge sprawling bushy tree of nameless faceless ancestors

 

[Value Collector]

Just to add to my point above,

You don't have a complete family history just because you know the names of some ancestors that arrived in Australia in 1780.

You would need to know the names of 512 couples from that generation, because you have 512 sets of grandparents from that generation.

Picking out one set of those 512 grandparents and saying "look I come from good stock" is a huge cherry picking exercise.

Unless your family had an insane amount of inbreeding, you are a of unknown decent like the rest of us "mongrels" lol

 

[noco]

You got the same internet I do, why not look it up and see if I'm lying about those stats.

How am I anti-American?

The stats I quote was about how ordinary Americans are being screwed to death; how that is not right or just for those Americans. So how am I anti American? Because I don't like their gov't lying them into endless wars, sucking the bloody and treasures from the American people to enrich arms merchants?

Maybe an average American would call me a friend.

The West doesn't care. The East doesn't care either. Even the Middle East doesn't care. So are the North and the South.

No body cares for anybody but themselves. And trust me, no imperial, no state power, ever care about another state.

When push come to shove, even Britain doesn't care about its colonies, Australia included.

Here are some stats about the US...

Half of its population are poor; some 30,000 Americans die each year from lack of medical care; Flint, Michigan has lead and polluted drinking water - still do after two years of the public and gov't cannot deny it anymore - there are some 3,000+ cities like Flint or worst.... Some 10 million American kids go to bed hungry...

How is that possible in the richest country in the in history of the world? One that care so much about Muslims and Arabs that it's willing to spend trillions blowing their countries to bits to show it cares.

And let's make this clear... I am not blaming the American people; or the normal citizens of the West. They're as much victims as anyone.

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Do you really need me to tell you how bad some Muslims and terrorists are? It's on TV almost 24/7.

And why do you take what I say as though I'm anti-Western civilisation or anti-Westerners? I am a Westerner by a whole lot of measures. Grew up learning and mingling in it.

Is imperialism a cherished Western values? Killing millions of people who does us no harm, that's a good thing? Starving poor people, cutting basic medicine and so killing some hundreds of thousands of kids and the elderly... those who are already victims of tyrants and dictators, that's a really nice way to hurt the despots?

If we're involve in that kind of war crimes, maybe it's a good thing to stop it.

Isn't that what the best and most noble of Western [and human] values is all about?

Yes and it has all happened under Obama Care.

http://obamacarefacts.com/facts-on-deaths-due-to-lack-of-health-insurance-in-us/

So what is the UN doing about the deaths of children dying around the world?...What are you going to do about it?

http://www.globalissues.org/article/715/today-21000-children-died-around-the-world

 

[SirRumpole]

But let's say it's bad and nasty... who are we to go and wreck the place, causing hundreds of thousands of death, millions homeless, all infrastructure destroyed.

The West has no forces in Syria as far as I know, although it supports the Syrian Opposition.. The Russians have, they are supporting Assad.

Since 30 September 2015, Russia, the only foreign power that has its military assets openly stationed in Syria, wages an intensive air campaign against ISIL and other anti-government forces in Syria, on the side and at the request of the Syrian government. The military activity of Russia in Syria has been criticized by the U.S. and its regional allies; Turkey overtly clashed with the Russian military in November 2015 over the alleged violation of its airspace by a Russian plane as well as over Russia′s bombardment of the areas held by anti-government forces that are supported by Turkey, especially in the Bayırbucak region.[8] Since July 2015, Turkey also openly and actively opposes further expansion of the Syrian Kurdish forces along its border.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_involvement_in_the_Syrian_Civil_War

 

[luutzu]

The West has no forces in Syria as far as I know, although it supports the Syrian Opposition.. The Russians have, they are supporting Assad.

Probably need to update your readings on Syria.

American special forces has been in Syria ("fighting ISIS", or arming them and other "moderate rebels") for quite a few years now. That's about to be picked up real fast.

Assad's gov't (regime) would have fallen if Russia didn't come in. And no, Russia didn't come in to bring peace either - it serves their interests.

I heard that China also have a couple of generals/air marshall in Syria too - no doubt "helping" and learning how democracy is brought about.


There's an article explaining why Assad was disliked... LNG pipeline.

Qatar and Saudi Arabia wanted to pipe their LNG through Syria, into Europe. That would mean Russia can no longer sell its gas to Europe.

Assad sided with Russia, and here we are, what a tyrant. Tyrants got to go.

 

[luutzu]

Yes and it has all happened under Obama Care.

http://obamacarefacts.com/facts-on-deaths-due-to-lack-of-health-insurance-in-us/

So what is the UN doing about the deaths of children dying around the world?...What are you going to do about it?

http://www.globalissues.org/article/715/today-21000-children-died-around-the-world

ObamaCare did make it possible for millions of Americans to get healthcare - at a price. It does not permit Insurance companies to deny people insurance coverage due to "pre-existing condition" and such things like being old and needing healthcare and stuff.

The price? Heard an average family of 4 would pay about $17K a year on premium. Karching!

That's a price many millions, about 24 million, couldn't afford so they're to suffer and die somewhere.

Then recently heard that the Insurance companies now see that they have to pay people they covered for healthcare... dam. That'll eat into profit, can't have that.

So one of the scheme they come up with, seeing how they can't deny people coverage, is to only cover people only at certain hospitals.

So they figured that if you have a history of breast/prostate cancer; have a high chance of x illness... then they would only cover treatments at hospitals that does not have specialists or does not treat that kind of illness.

Capitalism at its best.

Or if you're in a car accident, got picked up and send to the nearest hospital... you better pray that that hospital is on the coverage list or else you're to pay for all of it.

-------------------

The UN have to retract their criticism of US/Israel and other dominant powers/donors of their war crimes. That would mean being nasty to those powers' victims, but it also mean they'll get some funding to help fund victims not directly linked to the noblest of armies.

Me, I'm doing nothing. Just I'd tell any politicians that want war to go fark themselves. Might not save lives, at least doesn't condone its taking.

 

[noco]

ObamaCare did make it possible for millions of Americans to get healthcare - at a price. It does not permit Insurance companies to deny people insurance coverage due to "pre-existing condition" and such things like being old and needing healthcare and stuff.

The price? Heard an average family of 4 would pay about $17K a year on premium. Karching!

That's a price many millions, about 24 million, couldn't afford so they're to suffer and die somewhere.

Then recently heard that the Insurance companies now see that they have to pay people they covered for healthcare... dam. That'll eat into profit, can't have that.

So one of the scheme they come up with, seeing how they can't deny people coverage, is to only cover people only at certain hospitals.

So they figured that if you have a history of breast/prostate cancer; have a high chance of x illness... then they would only cover treatments at hospitals that does not have specialists or does not treat that kind of illness.

Capitalism at its best.

Or if you're in a car accident, got picked up and send to the nearest hospital... you better pray that that hospital is on the coverage list or else you're to pay for all of it.

-------------------

The UN have to retract their criticism of US/Israel and other dominant powers/donors of their war crimes. That would mean being nasty to those powers' victims, but it also mean they'll get some funding to help fund victims not directly linked to the noblest of armies.

Me, I'm doing nothing. Just I'd tell any politicians that want war to go fark themselves. Might not save lives, at least doesn't condone its taking.

OFF TOPIC.

So why is Trump closing down the Obama Care?.....I guess he is going to replace it with something better.

http://metro.co.uk/2017/01/22/what-...nt-to-repeal-the-affordable-care-act-6397130/

 

[luutzu]

OFF TOPIC.

So why is Trump closing down the Obama Care?.....I guess he is going to replace it with something better.

http://metro.co.uk/2017/01/22/what-...nt-to-repeal-the-affordable-care-act-6397130/

How was it off topic? Was a response to your blaming ObamaCare.

Obamacare was basically written by the insurance company. Premium have sky-rocketed. It is unaffordable for tens of millions of Americans. But it does help those with some money to not go broke when they get sick.

What'd be better would be a socialist one-payer Medicare system like that of Australia. Where it's not free, but where we all pay into it from our taxes [while we work].

When the taxpayer is young, more healthy, working and earning... they pay but don't use much. Then they get old, might get sick, might lost a job... but they're still covered.

That's an example of a good and just society where we look out for one another. Not this bs everyman for himself and nonsense about "choice" and "competition" and market forces.

But that's what big insurance wants - privatise it, force people into insurance... all will pay more, and all will get less standard of care as fine prints and exclusion clauses will screw them when they're worried about their health.

 

[noco]

How was it off topic? Was a response to your blaming ObamaCare.

Obamacare was basically written by the insurance company. Premium have sky-rocketed. It is unaffordable for tens of millions of Americans. But it does help those with some money to not go broke when they get sick.

What'd be better would be a socialist one-payer Medicare system like that of Australia. Where it's not free, but where we all pay into it from our taxes [while we work].

When the taxpayer is young, more healthy, working and earning... they pay but don't use much. Then they get old, might get sick, might lost a job... but they're still covered.

That's an example of a good and just society where we look out for one another. Not this bs everyman for himself and nonsense about "choice" and "competition" and market forces.

But that's what big insurance wants - privatise it, force people into insurance... all will pay more, and all will get less standard of care as fine prints and exclusion clauses will screw them when they're worried about their health.

The thread is
Islam : Is it inherently evil.

 

[qldfrog]

The West has no forces in Syria as far as I know, although it supports the Syrian Opposition.. The Russians have, they are supporting Assad.

I do believe the west UK/US and maybe even France have actually sent some "milit

The West has no forces in Syria as far as I know, although it supports the Syrian Opposition.. The Russians have, they are supporting Assad.

ary experts:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...-train-anti-isis-rebels-have-arrived-in-syria
For the ones with either memory or brain, this is even a bit more than the west did when we sent weapons and experts in Afghanistan in the 90's to help Bin Laden kill naughty commies who wanted to prevent the good taliban from rulling the holy land /world.
How could the west not help some good fanatic muslims......

 

[Tisme]

So you have documented history of your 4000+ grandmothers?

I doubt you do,

For a start I bet any such documentation is only on one parents side, so straight away you lose 2000 grandmothers,

Then it would only be on one of your grandparents side, so you lose another 1000 grandmothers etc

take a look at it, I bet you can't list your 4000 grandmothers, let alone have a single clue about their life or history.

When you claim you have a family tree dating to 1600's, you are fooling yourself, it would be little more than a single branch, in a huge sprawling bushy tree of nameless faceless ancestors

You have proofs of what you are alleging? The fact you are implying my family is one of abuse is bad enough, but calling me out for lying about something that has been researched and reviewed is poor form.

Not everyone has crap genes, but I do understand that misery loves company, and you seem lonely? Possibly you can't help it

 

[noco]

The truth of how the Democrats are helping Islam is now being exposed.

https://www.worldnewspolitics.com/2.../?utm_source=CP&utm_campaign=CP&utm_medium=CP

 

[luutzu]

You have proofs of what you are alleging? The fact you are implying my family is one of abuse is bad enough, but calling me out for lying about something that has been researched and reviewed is poor form.

Not everyone has crap genes, but I do understand that misery loves company, and you seem lonely? Possibly you can't help it

You descended from the Vikings, Irish, Scottish and the Poms.

That's evident enough McGee

 

[Tisme]

You descended from the Vikings, Irish, Scottish and the Poms.

That's evident enough McGee

Exactly! .....and the French and Italian nobility ... pure blood.

 

[Value Collector]

The fact you are implying my family is one of abuse is bad enough,

our family trees are so large, and so similar, it's not a bad claim, its just stating a fact that abuse happened in the past and so is part of all our family trees, I mean if you are going back 10 generations, almost all of us here are cousins.

but calling me out for lying about something that has been researched and reviewed is poor form.

There is only three option here.

1. you have exaggerated because don't understand the math of compounding and just how many ancestors you have in prior generations.

2. Your family is so inbred that your family tree is narrow and easily tracked.

3. you are lying.

When I said you would have 512 sets of grandparents from the generation around the time of the first free settlers arriving in Australia, do you understand what that means?

Do you understand that claiming you come from "good honest stock", just because you have managed to piece together one branch of your family tree leading back to one of your 512 sets of grandparents is a fallacy?


Let me show you the math, you have...

2 Parents
4 Grandparents
8 Great parents
16 Great Great Grandparents
32 Great Great Great Grandparents
64 Great Great Great Great Grandparents
128 Great Great Great Great Great Grandparents
256 Great Great Great Great Great Great Grandparents
512 Great Great Great Great Great Great Great Grandparents

so going back only 7 Generations and your number of grandparents that make up your gene pool, balloons to over a hundred.

So yes picking one set of those parents from the deep past and feeling super connected to them is silly,

and the French and Italian nobility ... pure blood.

Yes My dog is a pure breed Dalmatian if you ignore 50% of the gene pool each generation for 7 generations.

 

[SirRumpole]

our family trees are so large, and so similar, it's not a bad claim, its just stating a fact that abuse happened in all our family trees.

Back on the subject of Islam, the one thing Muslims have in common is a poisonous ideology handed down through the generations.

It's like child abuse really, the abused become the abusers because it's the only thing they know.

While I accept that they are not all like that, I also accept that most Germans were not Nazis in WW2, but the ones with the guns always have the power over the ones without and that's how extremism spreads.

Don't let it happen here.

 

[Value Collector]

Back on the subject of Islam,

Just one last thing and then I will leave it,

That couple from 1780 that Tisme, is proud to have as a ancestors is most likely an ancestor to 1 out of 5 Australias, and a guy that beat his wife from that generation that Tisme wouldn't want to admit is an ancestor is also ancestor to 1 out of 5 Australians.

This is an interesting video on the topic.

 

[wayneL]

Remember the Vietnam War? Chomsky said that beside a handful of activists, the American public have no idea about Vietnam, take JFK's words that the US is there to do something good... and so the war went on for almost a decade without the public knowing about it.

During that decade before the public see and get involved, pretty much the entire country was destroyed.

There's chemical weapons being spread across forests and farmland; there's Napalm; Agent Orange spreading and turning a tropical land into a desert noco. It still kills unborn babies decades after 1975... birth defects, cancer etc. etc.

Then there's the carpet bombing all over S.Vietnam. There's the almost total destruction of Laos and Cambodia - leading eventually to Pol Pot.

And yet, grasshopper, I can think of no terrorist attacks upon innocent civilians in markets by Vietnamese, Laotians Or Cambodians.

Have you just made our point for us?