Is political correctness going too far?

[moXJO]

Education on how to act around women and what's acceptable behavior should be encouraged. There are some really idiot guys with no clue out there.

 

[SirRumpole]

Education on how to act around women and what's acceptable behavior should be encouraged. There are some really idiot guys with no clue out there.

It should start in primary school imo.

Look at those idiots from St Kevin's.

Bogans don't just go to public schools.

 

[Humid]

How is it kidnapping when it's his daughter?
That's the kind of sht that causes conflict. He broke a court order.

It's already established he was fked in the head. How did he reach that point and is it identifiable before it happened. Otherwise it's the equivalent of a lone wolf attack. Unpredictable.

The finger of blame rests solely on him. Not looking at actionable ways of preventative measures falls on everyone.

THEIR

 

[Smurf1976]

The issue is far broader than most want to admit.

A portion of the human population will dominate others no matter what the consequences. That’s the crux of it.

When it comes to physical violence, women and children are vulnerable primarily because they’re physically weaker than the average man.

Reality though is that there’s plenty of men who aren’t particularly physical either. They’re also an easy target for others and there have been plenty of male victims of violence over the years too.

Elderly people of either gender are another group that’s vulnerable to physical, psychological or financial abuse and it’s not uncommon.

Plenty of horror stories from workplaces too where someone not in a position to easily walk away ends up being a victim of psychological, financial or less commonly physical abuse.

There’s a much bigger issue in all of this than most are willing to admit. It’s not at all uncommon.

The standard “move on” advice is well intentioned but fails to address the underlying problem. The perpetrator inevitably finds another target, usually almost immediately, and in some cases will continue to pursue the original target.

So long as there’s a focus on symptoms rather than underlying issues this won’t go away. It’ll keep happening with the sad reality that most suffer in silence and don’t make the national news.

Disclosure: I’ve been witness to a significant incident and the associated consequences. I also knew someone (male) who took their own life following a prolonged period of being targeted.

I won’t go into the circumstances, there are still unresolved legal matters, but since I’ve previously made comments in regard to career and employment I will clarify that this was not a workplace incident involving any company, either government or privately owned, in the energy industry.

I will also clarify that I was a witness and am not an accused person.

The issue has given me a changed perspective on life though that’s for sure - some things can’t be forgotten.

 

[SirRumpole]

The issue is far broader than most want to admit.

Good points. Scammers, rip off merchants in any industry do things because they can and they have the power.

What all these circumstances need is for people to gather around the victim and basically gang up on the perpetrator(s) and make them aware that the game is over for them unless they desist.

Easier said than done maybe. In some cases the perps have a lot of power and people are afraid to cross them. Example the Weinstien case (if proven) , Jimmy Saville, Rolf Harris etc. They all thought they could get away with it because they have power.

There are many cases of abuse beside domestic violence. It's part of a sick society.

 

[SirRumpole]

I'd also add the significant cases of school/ online bullying which have taken several lives. Abuse is not just done by individuals.

 

[Smurf1976]

Good points. Scammers, rip off merchants in any industry do things because they can and they have the power.

I claim no professional expertise on the subject but due to the observation I referred to, I've done my best to understand it all.

In short, the typical setup involves a perpetrator in a position of power relative to the victim. That may be physical strength, economic control, the ability to make or break someone's career or reputation, access to children and so on. Any sort of power. They will also see themselves as being in some way superior to the victim. Physically, intellectually or otherwise. This may or may not be factual reality, what matters is the perception.

This may be on an individual basis, eg husband versus wife, or may be with the backing of a group - eg schoolyard or a large business situation.

On the other side it involves a victim who has some reason to want to continue the relationship despite the abuse. Common examples include children, not wanting others to know their marriage is a failure, that the bully really does have the power to break them in some way (eg career or reputation), fear of physical safety, financial problems if they leave, etc.

Once those circumstances are in place and abuse starts, it becomes self-reinforcing in that the cycle of abuse slowly but surely wears down the victim. However able they were to leave right at the start, they will feel less able to leave as time passes. Eg a woman who now doubts her own desirability to other (sensible and non-abusive) men or an employee who now has doubts that anyone else would actually employ them. Etc. Slowly but surely shattering self-confidence is always a primary action of a bully since it traps the victim.

In doing that it's important to grasp that the bully is themselves essentially feeding an addiction. This is not in any way an attempt to defend but to explain and the analogy I've said to others is to liken it to drug addiction. An alcoholic doesn't want alcohol to look at or even because they enjoy it. Rather, they're feeding a chemical addiction. Same as a smoker doesn't want a cigarette in order to sit it on the table as an ornament. No, they want it in order to consume it - set it on fire and inhale the smoke in order to satisfy their addiction. A bully is similar, hence they'll always find another victim in the same way the alcoholic ensures they obtain alcohol, the smoker continues to buy cigarettes and so on.

If it continues long enough then eventually the victim does "break" in some way but the details vary hugely:

They might take their own life. More common than you might think - a not insignificant number of car "accidents" are really suicides, especially those which involve single occupant vehicles running into solid objects at high speed.

They might collapse on the ground in tears unable to move.

They might hurt the things they love - eg an art collector who smashes up everything they own or a car enthusiast who deliberately writes off what was their pride and joy. Animals and children are at risk in this scenario.

They might seek revenge in an intellectual sort of way. Rip the rug out from under the perpetrator.

Or they might do something drastic. Think guns, fires, explosives etc sort of drastic.

I'm no professional but that's my layman's terms explanation of it.

 

[SirRumpole]

They might seek revenge in an intellectual sort of way. Rip the rug out from under the perpetrator.

Or they might do something drastic. Think guns, fires, explosives etc sort of drastic.

I hesitate to call for yet another Royal Commission but the whole subject of abuse and power relationships needs to come out into the open. The Child Sexual Abuse , Disability and Aged Care abuse RC's and even the banking RC are really just discussing the same subject as it affects different groups, it's all part of the same pathology.

 

[sptrawler]

In doing that it's important to grasp that the bully is themselves essentially feeding an addiction. This is not in any way an attempt to defend but to explain and the analogy I've said to others is to liken it to drug addiction. An alcoholic doesn't want alcohol to look at or even because they enjoy it. Rather, they're feeding a chemical addiction. Same as a smoker doesn't want a cigarette in order to sit it on the table as an ornament. No, they want it in order to consume it - set it on fire and inhale the smoke in order to satisfy their addiction. A bully is similar, hence they'll always find another victim in the same way the alcoholic ensures they obtain alcohol, the smoker continues to buy cigarettes and so on.
.

To a degree it is human nature, in times gone by eventually the bully was punished, either by a peer or by the authorities, now the belief is that punishment doesn't work.
Eventually I believe punishment will have to be re introduced, as the bullies push the boundaries, the boundaries of acceptable behavior move further into the unacceptable.
Just last week, a group of high school students attacked, bashed and robbed a young male at a busy train station. They were from a very upmarket school and area, they were suspended from school, for the maximum 10 days.
The victim is in an induced coma in hospital, they stole his shoes and phone.
https://7news.com.au/news/court-jus...udents-suspended-over-alleged-attack-c-701780

With the huge drug problem and its associated social problems and the obvious lack of respect being nurtured in society, it will only be a matter of time before a serious breakdown in the social structure happens. IMO

 

[SirRumpole]

The victim is in an induced coma in hospital, they stole his shoes and phone.

They have been charged by the police as well, but should have been suspended for the duration of the trial.

 

[basilio]

It is a challenge to bite ones lips when something as awful/tragic as this happens and we all wonder why.

The individual situation ? Who really knows everything yet. Certainly the way the husband behaved is at the extreme end of horror. However the principles of people resolving domestic situations without the aggression and violence , largely men driven, that underpin many domestic situations needs to be recognised .

 

[basilio]

This might add some clarity to the picture.
https://www.theguardian.com/austral...rke-and-her-childrens-experts-call-for-action

 

[sptrawler]

They have been charged by the police as well, but should have been suspended for the duration of the trial.

The problem is IMO, when a group of high school students think it is fine to run up behind an unsuspecting member of the public and jump up then kick them in the middle of the back, so the person face plants into a station platform then kick and stomp that person unconscious.
Just because they want his shoes and they come from wealthy families, tells me their is something seriously wrong with society, you can dress it up you can put lipstick on it, but to me it just shows how the problem is escalating.
I remember in my youth in the Goldfields a couple of guys beat the crap out of a guy in a wheel chair in the pub, they took off interstate, because they were going to end up in a wheel chair themselves.
All this warm feel good stuff will end up in tears.

 

[SirRumpole]

The problem is IMO, when a group of high school students think it is fine to run up behind an unsuspecting member of the public and jump up then kick them in the middle of the back, so the person face plants into a station platform then kick and stomp that person unconscious.
Just because they want his shoes and they come from wealthy families, tells me their is something seriously wrong with society, you can dress it up you can put lipstick on it, but to me it just shows how the problem is escalating.
I remember in my youth in the Goldfields a couple of guys beat the crap out of a guy in a wheel chair in the pub, they took off interstate, because they were going to end up in a wheel chair themselves.
All this warm feel good stuff will end up in tears.

Yep, society is going down the gurgler for sure. Those kids will probably get a suspended sentence when it should be jail time with hard labour. That's where the Lefties do the damage, going on about the damage done to the kids futures etc not thinking about how soft sentences encourage others to do the same thing.

 

[sptrawler]

Yep, society is going down the gurgler for sure. Those kids will probably get a suspended sentence when it should be jail time with hard labour. That's where the Lefties do the damage, going on about the damage done to the kids futures etc not thinking about how soft sentences encourage others to do the same thing.

Meanwhile you or me, or one of our kids, or grand kids is laying in a hospital bed in an induced coma.
What did they do wrong?

 

[sptrawler]

It is a challenge to bite ones lips when something as awful/tragic as this happens and we all wonder why.

The individual situation ? Who really knows everything yet. Certainly the way the husband behaved is at the extreme end of horror. However the principles of people resolving domestic situations without the aggression and violence , largely men driven, that underpin many domestic situations needs to be recognised .

A really good start would be the press, starting to treat people with respect, rather than making a National sport of tearing people down and being smug in the process.
Respect is something that our society ATM, puts little value on and like a cancer it grows and infiltrates into all parts of our lives.
What that person did torching his wife and children is beyond belief, but every day there is examples of how our society is tearing down the fabric of our society.
We delight in tearing down our politicians, the police are under more and more scrutiny for carrying out their duty in more and more dangerous circumstances yet the people they are having to deal with are becoming more and more violent , every pillar of our society is under the microscope.
The only people who are cut any slack, given every benefit of the doubt are the criminals, it is always the victims fault for putting themselves in a dangerous situation.
Yet the perpetrator can plead diminished responsibility for drugs or alchohol, then within a few years they get on with their lives, unfortunately too often the victim doesn't have that choice.
When children in school are bashing and swearing at their teachers, and the teachers are powerless to do anything about it, tells you society is breaking down.
There is an old saying, you can only reason from experience.

 

[Smurf1976]

However the principles of people resolving domestic situations without the aggression and violence , largely men driven, that underpin many domestic situations needs to be recognised .

I agree with most of that but I'll add that women most certainly are violent.

It's just that female violence doesn't tend to take the form of physical aggression against a male victim for the obvious reason that the male is usually physically stronger. Rather, it takes a non-physical form but it's still abuse and it's violence of a sort albeit not physically. It won't likely kill the victim with a gun or a punch but it may well lead to them taking their own life or suffering in other ways which does have the potential, in the event of a breakdown, to impact others (children, animals, property of any sort, other people).

All genders are capable of destruction and all do it just in different ways.

I'm heterosexual and never been otherwise but I've been assured that violence most certainly does occur in same sex relationships just as it occurs in opposite sex relationships. That includes F-F as well as M-M since more often than not, one partner has greater physical strength than the other so the same potential exists as it does in a heterosexual relationship.

Humans are really quite crap in some ways.

Something that does interest me though, in terms of how the human mind works, is if you look at dating sites from an analytical perspective. I mean sites aimed at people wanting long term relationships not just casual encounters.

Long story short, once you start categorising with all this in mind a rather concerning pattern does emerge. Some men make it clear that they're not interested in dating any woman they can't dominate physically but this preference is even stronger among women, they're specifically not interested in a man who doesn't have a physical build and strength advantage.

That's certainly not all men and it's certainly not all women but it's not uncommon that a woman won't date any man who doesn't have a height and perceived strength advantage over her and it's not uncommon that men avoid women who aren't physically weaker than they are.

From the perspective of women and safety, that's akin to walking into a car dealership and saying you don't want any car with a 5 star ANCAP rating or looking at houses and specifically insisting that the place you buy must be built entirely from untreated pine to ensure it burns easily and that termites can chomp straight through it. Makes no rational sense.

 

[qldfrog]

Makes no rational sense.

In a word: humanity

 

[SirRumpole]

Long story short, once you start categorising with all this in mind a rather concerning pattern does emerge. Some men make it clear that they're not interested in dating any woman they can't dominate physically but this preference is even stronger among women, they're specifically not interested in a man who doesn't have a physical build and strength advantage.

Yes, but I don't think women are attracted to men with a strength advantage over women, they want a man with a strength advantage over other men, ie a protection factor for themselves (they think).

Some women seem to have a fantasy about their ideal man, the "strong silent type" who will protect them from the wimps in society who are after their bodies. They don't seem to realise that there is "toxic masculinity" out there who will turn this strength advantage against them.

So some predetermined fantasies have to be broken down I think and psychological factors should be examined by anyone seeking a partner rather than just physical ones.

 

[macca]

Another recurring them is that after a relationship fails, very often each person goes there own way but ends up in a very similar type of relationship but with someone else.

Almost like the story is the same just with different names and faces

I know a lady who is addicted to finding broken men to fix up, addicts, drunks or violent are the types she likes, I am a healer she says, I like to feel needed.

Some of the things she tells us !!, never a dull moment in her life