Is Global Warming becoming unstoppable?

[SirRumpole]

giving free birth control to india or PC forgive me Indonesia,

Our leaders should make it clear that Australia is NOT going to be the dumping ground for excess population growth in other parts of the world.

The "ageing population" argument for continual immigration is not sustainable, even if we have 500 million and all the farms and forests have been turned into housing estates there will still be people saying that our population is ageing and we need still more people to look after them.

Population growth is a ponzi scheme. We need to use technology better to supply the population we have.

 

[basilio]

"We" can do a little bit but when world population increase yearly by 84 millions, our leaders should have the obligation to go into remediation mode.and invest as such.
for the root cause
giving free birth control to india or PC forgive me Indonesia,
Africa or Middle east would do more to reduce global warming than any protest against Adani.

QldFrog I think you are going way off track and missing the point about the causes and possible responses to global warming.
Firstly we are facing many problems - a number of which are interrelated. There are no simple solutions - if in fact, at this stage, there are any realistic solutions at all. Blaming population growth in India/Indonesia for global warming is missing the point that Australia, US and Western world in general contributes far more to GG emissions that are causing global heating than India/Indonesia etc. Yes over population is a problem but the salient issue is actually overuse of resources and destruction of our ecosystems. (You can do that just as easily with a small increase of very wasteful people)

You suggest that protesting against Adani is futile/not necessary/whatever. That overlooks the incredible damage that trying to support new coal fired powered stations is doing to the environment. Whether it's massive depletion of ground water, creating particulate pollution that kills millions of people or making huge contributions to increasing GG that will accelerate global heating it's all disastrous.
What makes it even worse is when we are now quite certain that renewable energy sources are cheaper than coal - as well as producing minimal pollution and being long lasting.

One of the best ways we can help India and other developing countries to reduce their impact on global heating is supporting their development of renewable energy technology and cleaner production - which of course is also exactly what we should be doing.

 

[basilio]

One of the uncomfortable realities of global heating is acknowledging and preparing for hotter and drier conditions than we previously faced with the consequence of far more catastrophic bushfires than we previously experienced. Fire fighters have had to reassess how they fight fires that have become far too dangerous to approach. The advent of firestorms etc.

This is happening now.
Total fire bans as catastrophic fire conditions predicted for part of South Australia
A forecast for hot and windy conditions has prompted South Australia's Country Fire Service to issue a catastrophic fire danger warning for the state's Mid North region today.
.. "In some areas of the state, conditions will be that bad that it will be possible that it is not safe to stay and defend," Mr Stanley said.

"If you have a bushfire survival plan and your plan is to leave, I'd encourage you to make those arrangements now rather than leave it to the last minute, when it can potentially be too late and your life could be put at risk."
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-12-28/catastrophic-fire-conditions-in-south-australia/10670818

 

[qldfrog]

QldFrog I think you are going way off track and missing the point about the causes and possible responses to global warming.
Firstly we are facing many problems - a number of which are interrelated. There are no simple solutions - if in fact, at this stage, there are any realistic solutions at all. Blaming population growth in India/Indonesia for global warming is missing the point that Australia, US and Western world in general contributes far more to GG emissions that are causing global heating than India/Indonesia etc. Yes over population is a problem but the salient issue is actually overuse of resources and destruction of our ecosystems. (You can do that just as easily with a small increase of very wasteful people)

You suggest that protesting against Adani is futile/not necessary/whatever. That overlooks the incredible damage that trying to support new coal fired powered stations is doing to the environment. Whether it's massive depletion of ground water, creating particulate pollution that kills millions of people or making huge contributions to increasing GG that will accelerate global heating it's all disastrous.
What makes it even worse is when we are now quite certain that renewable energy sources are cheaper than coal - as well as producing minimal pollution and being long lasting.

One of the best ways we can help India and other developing countries to reduce their impact on global heating is supporting their development of renewable energy technology and cleaner production - which of course is also exactly what we should be doing.

Not sure India or China, Indonesia needs help, this is an attitude in the west which is actually very arrogant and proves many people have not been traveling much there in the the last 30y.
I do not disagree with you cf power cost etc, but even if every Australian was releasing 10 times as much as an everage chinese, we are peanuts, the yearly emissions of the west will become negligeable
And every new mouth to feed will consume food aka oil, iron ,plastics.
However unpleasant this might be, the future of the planet is out of our hands.even that australian coal is mostly use for steel making, not power stations.there is 200y of coal consumption available in china indonesia india alone..exacts figures these are not, but you can look, i am not far of the scale.we are a minor player..not in export but in overall production
With our demographic loss of power, the west has also lost the control of our future.
These are basically my points.
Resistance to facts is futile, so we'd better try to protect what we can at home, and as i said before, do our little bit if / when we can but not by commiting economic suicide "a la EU"

 

[qldfrog]

Anyone else having issues with the typing spellerchecker when posting on asf? I have annoying issues only when posting here! From an Android phone
So my apologies cf typos

 

[explod]

Agree with you qldfrog. The game is up, just bar up your door and party while you can

 

[Smurf1976]

not denying climate change or its human cause but the brain washing attached os becominn unbearable to any independent thinker

If I go back to the end of primary school then at that point the only Australian states I'd ever been to were Tas, Vic and Qld. Flying anywhere cost a lot more back then than it does now and my family weren't wealthy.

I'm very sure however that I knew at that age that Adelaide experiences extreme heat during Summer as does most of inland Australia. I'd heard of Marble Bar, knew that the town is famous for being hot, and also knew that water is scarce in much of Australia.

Knowing that is much like saying just about everyone knows that there's a major underground train system in London and that there's a lot of tall buildings in New York city. You don't need to have been there to know that, it's common knowledge.

Climate change as such is a potentially very serious matter in terms of consequences and that is so regardless of the cause be it CO2, other gases, heat release, natural cycles or whatever.

Everything man has built thus far takes into account the natural environment to some extent. It's a very major problem if, for example, we find that the sea level is no longer comparable to that on which we based $ trillions worth of infrastructure globally including entire cities. It's a problem if the air temperature reaches a point where buses don't work and planes can't take off (temperature most certainly is a factor in the engine power and weight limit calculations for large aircraft since the engines have considerably less power at high air temperatures). And that's without mentioning the effects on living things be they humans, cats, koalas, trees or whatever.

I do wish though that the media would stop sensationalising weather events that aren't uncommon. That's just wasting effort that would be better directed at the real issues with all of this.

 

[basilio]

I do wish though that the media would stop sensationalising weather events that aren't uncommon. That's just wasting effort that would be better directed at the real issues with all of this

Smurf you always make a lot of sense and your points about preparing for the changes that are happening are exceptionally valid.

I have to say though that IMV the media is not sensationalising weather events that aren't uncommon. The facts are that each year we are regularly breaking temperature records around the country. These are either stretches of extreme temperatures, earlier or later record temperatures, record overnight minimums whatever.

These reflect the reality of a climate that is not what it was 20-30 years ago. Bureau of Met figures are clear proof of rapid increase in temperatures since 1970.
http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/change/acorn-sat/

What we do lack is what you are asking for - a recognition that global heating is real, continuing to grow and has to dealt with. But that reality is still being denied or ignored.

 

[qldfrog]

Agree with you qldfrog. The game is up, just bar up your door and party while you can

No partying, i have a son and have spent my life fighting for nature, but denial is no help (of the fact that mankind can not and will not revert course here), nor is an inflated ego as to what the west can do.
Mother nature might sort it out: a pandemic, a timed solar flare, man's owns nuclear or bio warfare but there is no realistic hope in seing emissions reducing in the medium term.so do not dance but be prepared

 

[Smurf1976]

I have to say though that IMV the media is not sensationalising weather events that aren't uncommon.

It may depend on which media?

I say that in an effort to explain not to disagree for the sake of it etc.

In the past 15 weeks what I've seen reported, not just local but national, which seems somewhat sensationalist to me includes two separate occurrences of Sydney being "smashed" or "absolutely smashed" and overall there has been some dire weather warning literally every week or two.

If Sydney has actually been "smashed" then I'd expect a considerable death toll and that reconstruction is going to take years. A lot of things will be ruined, many people will be homeless and there will be some call for volunteers to assist along with probably sending in the Army.

In reality there was some flooding of train stations, basements etc so it wasn't good but not exactly a case of the whole city being "smashed". The hail storm wasn't one of the media's "smashing" events so can't count that one.

It's much the same when the media decides that we need a "survival guide" for a blackout. They must be expecting a pretty major blackout if survival is going to be an issue for 99% of people (and FWIW their advice completely ignores the few people for whom life might actually be in danger - people on life support machines at home or with heat sensitive illnesses etc).

My concern is with the media more than it is with the climate in this context.

 

[basilio]

I see your point Smurf. Your quite right noting the sensationalising of the Sydney weather events. I don't follow those stories so I didn't notice it.

It's interesting though to recognise that these extreme weather events are related to global heating. They are the extreme weather events that are made more extreme by increases in temperature in the atmosphere.

In terms of damage/effects ? I'd be interested to know what the insurance cost will be for these hailstorms and floods. Again these consequences will be felt in the next 12 mnths as insurance companies try to get some money back from the claims that are made.

And after all that the question remains - Is anyone taking a deep breath and acknowledging the systematic nature of the change in our climate and the ongoing cause ? When can expect such a "statement " ?

 

[qldfrog]

And after all that the question remains - Is anyone taking a deep breath and acknowledging the systematic nature of the change in our climate and the ongoing cause ? When can expect such a "statement " ?

Honestly Basilio, I think any common sense educated (that does not mean brainwashed!) person has now reached that stage, but not that many wants to change their way.
We forget that for many in the world, having 2C or 4C temperature increase would be very welcome:
Canada, some parts of the US and Europe, Russia, most of China so billions on this earth are actually rejoicing at the thought of a few degrees extra.
Obviously it is hard to take that stance when living in Australia (Except maybe in Tasmania )
And now a huge majority of people are living in towns so even more decoupled from weather.
This and my previous posts are the conclusions i draw from having spent more time in Asia this year than in Australia (for work).
When you experience Beijing air pollution, you can then understand how 1.5 billion people (and probably 3 billions if including India) which are contributing to most of the global warming growth do not give a rat about greenhouse gases.Sure with clean energy, they would have cleaner air, but the focus is on air,water and so goes the effort
An uncomfortable truth.....
I hope this bring people another view on the issue.As i have said before, I "believe" (a term I do not like in this context) in man made global warming and as per my sad usual stand have a very pessimistic view on the future.I do not consider myself a denier, but a realist.

 

[basilio]

When you experience Beijing air pollution, you can then understand how 1.5 billion people (and probably 3 billions if including India) which are contributing to most of the global warming growth do not give a rat about greenhouse gases.Sure with clean energy, they would have cleaner air, but the focus is on air,water and so goes the effort

Perhaps this is one of the factors In Chinas and Indias very rapid move to wind and solar power and closing of coal fired powered stations?
https://www.thefifthestate.com.au/business/investment-deals/china-switch-to-renewable-electricity/
https://www.dw.com/en/china-leads-in-global-shift-to-renewable-energy/a-43266203

 

[basilio]

If you want to see a turbo charging of Global Heating just watch as Bolsonaro clears the rest of the Amazon in the name of progress and turns it from a carbon sink to a creator of CO2. Didn't have to wait long to see his priorities did we ?

Jair Bolsonaro launches assault on Amazon rainforest protections
Executive order transfers regulation and creation of indigenous reserves to agriculture ministry controlled by agribusiness lobby

Dom Phillips in Rio de Janeiro


@domphillips
Thu 3 Jan 2019 04.33 AEDT Last modified on Thu 3 Jan 2019 09.56 AEDT


1:29
Jair Bolsonaro's provocative views in six clips – video
Hours after taking office, Brazil’s new president, Jair Bolsonaro, has launched an assault on environmental and Amazon protections with an executive order transferring the regulation and creation of new indigenous reserves to the agriculture ministry – which is controlled by the powerful agribusiness lobby.

The move sparked outcry from indigenous leaders, who said it threatened their reserves, which make up about 13% of Brazilian territory, and marked a symbolic concession to farming interests at a time when deforestation is rising again.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jan/02/brazil-jair-bolsonaro-amazon-rainforest-protections

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/global-warming/deforestation/

 

[Darc Knight]

"University of Queensland snake expert Professor Bryan Fry says climate change has brought longer periods of warm weather, which means snakes are active for longer periods of each year.

"Their activity season may now stretch to April or May, where in some areas it may have previously slowed down by March as things cooled down," he said on Saturday.

"Snakes are another indicator of this unnatural strain on nature as the climate gets hotter for longer."

https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/po...-overnight-in-queensland-20190105-p50pqz.html

 

[basilio]

And now for something compleeeteeely different. A Climate change story like you've never seen before.
Give it a few minutes. Give it a bit longer. See if you can't spot every meme, distraction, misdirection, or flying snowball.

Not to mention watermelon earth

 

[SirRumpole]

Not only are land temperatures rising, so are the oceans.

https://www.theguardian.com/environ...ceans-equivalent-to-an-atomic-bomb-per-second

 

[basilio]

 

[explod]

51 celsius at 12.37 in Mildura today.

 

[explod]

Our planet is 4.6 billion years old.

If we scale that to 46 years we have been here for four hours,

the industrial revolution began one minute ago and in that time we have destroyed more than half the world's forests.

Trees make the rain and our oxygen.

A bit off topic which is why we need a general chat on climate to take it all in together. But then it's just party time in fact