Food scarcity

[wayneL]

Just a point, such creatures are not always right wing. Plenty of lefties are similarly egregious....

 

[3 hound]

Just a point, such creatures are not always right wing. Plenty of lefties are similarly egregious....

Right/Left wing are the most intellectually laziest terms to describe political positions and people.

They usually get used as low IQ attack words when the reptilian brain has been activated as old mate just demonstrated.

I realise the media use the terms a lot to provoke traffic and clicks.

I am an issues voter I have no clue what left or right wing even suppose to mean in 2022.

In real life nearly everyone is too nuanced, complex and sophisticated to divide simply into two groups of left or right wing...it's obnoxious, dumb and ridiculous.

 

[Value Collector]

Right/Left wing are the most intellectually laziest terms to describe political positions and people.

They usually get used as low IQ attack words when the reptilian brain has been activated as old mate just demonstrated.

I realise the media use the terms a lot to provoke traffic and clicks.

I am an issues voter I have no clue what left or right wing even suppose to mean in 2022.

In real life nearly everyone is too nuanced, complex and sophisticated to divide simply into two groups of left or right wing...it's obnoxious, dumb and ridiculous.

I don’t know about that, maybe it’s because I spend a lot of time in America, but I am constantly surprised by how polarised politics is, and the tribalism involved, and how it seems like ideas are clumped together and accepted almost as a religion.

I mean there is a reason being a republican for example almost a guarantee that your views on certain things like gun control can be predicted.

I am somewhere in the middle, so can see the crazy in both sides.

 

[mullokintyre]

WayneL

It's true that there is a correlation between high dairy intake and hi incidence of osteoporosis.

Yep, and then the dairy industry fund campaigns that use osteoporosis as a reason for people to consume even more dairy, even though they know that populations with higher dairy intake suffer higher rates of osteoporosis.

The best thing to do to prevent osteoporosis is to get your calcium by eating vegetables and leafy greens and resistance exercise like weights or even swimming.

Both of you gentlemen need to widen your research methods.
From Australian Institute of health and Welfare

Risk factors associated with the development of osteoporosis include increasing age, sex, family history of the condition, low vitamin D levels, low intake of calcium, low body weight, smoking, excess alcohol consumption, physical inactivity, long-term corticosteroid use and reduced oestrogen level (Ebeling et al. 2013).

No mention of dairy in there.

How common is osteoporosis?​

Generally, osteoporosis is under-diagnosed. Because osteoporosis has no overt symptoms, it is often not diagnosed until a fracture occurs. It is therefore difficult to determine the true prevalence of the condition (that is, the number of people with the condition). Information about 'diagnosed cases' is likely to underestimate the actual prevalence of the condition.

An estimated 924,000 Australians have osteoporosis, based on self-reported data from the Australian Bureau of Statistics (ABS) 2017–18 National Health Survey (NHS) and 20% of people aged 75 years and over have osteoporosis (ABS 2018). This definition of osteoporosis includes people who had osteoporosis or osteopenia.

Osteoporosis is more common in women than men. In 2017–18, 29% of women aged 75 and over had osteoporosis compared with 10% of men.

Older age groups also tend to be affected. The proportion of women with osteoporosis increases with age, with those 75 and over being most affected (Figure 1).

So unless one takes the view that its a cumulative effect of dairy intake that causes osteoporsis , its hard to see any correlation other than being old and female.
One of the hypotheses put forward by the vegan supporters is the the proposition that dairy foods contribute to osteoporosis by ‘acidifying’ our bodies. This claim is especially common in vegan-oriented alternative health media, but also comes up in other internet realms, including those with a Paleo orientation.
This article as well as This article both look at why this is incorrect.
From the second of these two articles

For those who missed the articles, this hypothesis states that foods high in phosphate leave an ‘acid ash’ after digestion, thereby lowering serum pH. The body supposedly compensates for this and restores normal blood pH by stealing alkaline minerals (such as calcium) from the bones, thus decreasing bone density.
Because of their phosphate content, milk and other dairy products are usually considered ‘acid-producing’ foods under this hypothesis. Thus, proponents claim that even though dairy contains calcium and other nutrients that can be used to build bone, dairy’s acidifying effect on the body outweighs its calcium content and results in a net loss of bone density.

Additionally, I came across a 2011 study that specifically addresses the dairy-acid balance-osteoporosis connection. They came to some interesting conclusions that I want to share with you all, and hopefully we can put this issue to rest.
First, they emphasize that urine pH is not indicative of systemic pH. In fact, except in cases of serious renal insufficiency, diet does not affect serum pH at all. If it did, we’d be in a lot of trouble! The pH of our blood is maintained in a very tight range, and if it deviates significantly, we will die very quickly. No doubt we can really mess up our health by eating the wrong things, but thankfully our minute-to-minute survival doesn’t hinge on whether we can correctly balance the acidity or alkalinity of the foods we eat.

Further, the bones don’t even come into play in the regulation of our serum pH; that’s our kidneys’ job. Any ‘acid ash’ that is left behind by the foods we eat can be easily dealt with and eliminated in the urine. This is why your urine changes pH depending on what you eat. It’s just a sign that your kidneys are doing their job!

In short, their conclusions simply reiterate the points I made in my Acid-Alkaline series, and demonstrate that the acid-ash hypothesis of osteoporosis has no scientific backing. But perhaps the most interesting thing about this particular study on milk is the authors’ assertion that dairy isn’t even acid-forming in the first place!

The authors cite two studies that indicate that milk actually leaves an alkaline ash as opposed to an acid ash, based on measurements of urine pH and net acid excretion (NAE) following milk ingestion in clinical trials. (Remember, this doesn’t mean that milk raises serum pH. Foods can change urine pH, but not blood pH!)

Mick

 

[divs4ever]

I am an issues voter I have no clue what left or right wing even suppose to mean in 2022.

not much anymore , two paths to a totalitarian end

i remember a friends extended quote ' great minds think alike , but fools never differ ' and sadly our predestined emperors seem to be officers on the Ship of Fools

 

[3 hound]

Yep, and then the dairy industry fund campaigns that use osteoporosis as a reason for people to consume even more dairy, even though they know that populations with higher dairy intake suffer higher rates of osteoporosis.


Both of you gentlemen need to widen your research methods.
From Australian Institute of health and Welfare

No mention of dairy in there.

So unless one takes the view that its a cumulative effect of dairy intake that causes osteoporsis , its hard to see any correlation other than being old and female.
One of the hypotheses put forward by the vegan supporters is the the proposition that dairy foods contribute to osteoporosis by ‘acidifying’ our bodies. This claim is especially common in vegan-oriented alternative health media, but also comes up in other internet realms, including those with a Paleo orientation.
This article as well as This article both look at why this is incorrect.
From the second of these two articles

Mick

What scientists find too often correlates to who funds scientists.

Food/nutrition science in particular seems to be historically corrupted by the farm lobby -:look at the "food pyramid" the modern western world was sold. Every school kids learnt it and those same school kids are probably suffering now because of it.

 

[Value Collector]

Yep, and then the dairy industry fund campaigns that use osteoporosis as a reason for people to consume even more dairy, even though they know that populations with higher dairy intake suffer higher rates of osteoporosis.


Both of you gentlemen need to widen your research methods.
From Australian Institute of health and Welfare

No mention of dairy in there.

So unless one takes the view that its a cumulative effect of dairy intake that causes osteoporsis , its hard to see any correlation other than being old and female.
One of the hypotheses put forward by the vegan supporters is the the proposition that dairy foods contribute to osteoporosis by ‘acidifying’ our bodies. This claim is especially common in vegan-oriented alternative health media, but also comes up in other internet realms, including those with a Paleo orientation.
This article as well as This article both look at why this is incorrect.
From the second of these two articles

Mick

The link with dairy and osteoporosis is the calcium (and it’s malabsorption in diary form)

As the link you put up suggests, low calcium intake is a big risk factor for osteoporosis, so if you are lactose intolerant like 65% to 70% of the population are, then you will be suffering malabsorption of calcium (and any of the other vitamins and minerals) you eat along with the diary products.

This would be made worse if your solution to low calcium is to eat more diary.

However if you instead replace the dairy products with other foods that are naturally high in calcium, then you will absorb a lot more of it, especially because a lot of the vegetable based sources of calcium also have the other minerals and vitamins your body needs to absorb it.

 

[Value Collector]

What scientists find too often correlates to who funds scientists.

Food/nutrition science in particular seems to be historically corrupted by the farm lobby -:look at the "food pyramid" the modern western world was sold. Every school kids learnt it and those same school kids are probably suffering now because of it.

Yep, in Canada lobbyists went crazy because the school system tried to add some plant based sources of protein to the food pyramid.

As a vegan, the most common question I got asked when family and friends found out I was transitioning to a vegan diet was

1, But how will you get Protein?

2, But how will you get calcium without milk?

The meat and dairy industry has been very successful in marketing.

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.4970122

 

[3 hound]

Yep, in Canada there was court cases because the school system tried to add some plant based sources of protein to the food pyramid.

As a vegan, the most common question I got asked when family and friends found out I was transitioning to a vegan diet was

1, But how will you get Protein?

2, But how will you get calcium without milk?

The meat and dairy industry has been very successful in marketing.

Vegans are just bad as any other vested interest group in the food industry trying to push their agenda and propaganda onto everyone else except there is a religious cult like vibe among vegans.

 

[mullokintyre]

As a vegan, the most common question I got asked when family and friends found out I was transitioning to a vegan diet was

Ah, that explains everything.
I am sure its been said before, but correlation does not mean the same as causation.
Mick

 

[moXJO]

Dude keep up, the rain has either directly destroyed entire crops or the land is so wet that machinery had been unable to get in to harvest them again resulting in entire harvests left to rot. Even grazing on unimproved pastures is suffering.

Yes some will do well others will be completely wiped out coming off 10 years of drought they borrowed heavily expecting a good year to pay for all the drought debt - this was the last straw, many will never farm again.

We have the second biggest canola crop in history forecast.
Wheat was records last and this financial year.

You want me to keep up?

 

[Value Collector]

Vegans are just bad as any other vested interest group in the food industry trying to push their agenda and propaganda onto everyone else except there is a religious cult like vibe among vegans.

It wasn’t vegans doing anything, just the people in the school system trying to correct the out dated food pyramid to show that “protein” doesn’t just come from animals, and that calcium doesn’t just come from milk, which is kinda important to know, if only to inoculate people from asking silly questions latter in life.

Having lived on both sides, I can tell you it’s the meat eating side that is more cult like, meat eating is based on all sorts traditions and myths just like religion.

As far as “agendas” go, one side wants to push animal products for profit at the expense of both the animals and the humans, while the other side just wants to reduce the harm in the world for no profit, so they are not quite the same.

 

[Value Collector]

Ah, that explains everything.
I am sure its been said before, but correlation does not mean the same as causation.
Mick

Yep, correlation does not equal causation, but Diarrhoea and other symptoms of lactose intolerance does mean you won’t be absorbing the the nutrients in the foods you eat for a few hours.

 

[moXJO]

Also a record number of cattle in feed lots.

 

[StockyGuy]

Gotta admit that as a very lactose-tolerant vegan, dairy would be the first thing I'd start taking again if supply of my beloved B12 and D fortified soy, or something similar, became unavailable long term.

All the proud histories of vegetarians, the long lists of famous intellectuals and geniuses who were vegetarians, also the best society-level example of plant-based eating in the case of higher-caste Indians...... all of that was pretty much veganism with only the addition of dairy.

I find lacto-vegetarianism a respectable position, just not the ideal one for me with the current options I have. Come ultimate, apocalyptic, food scarcity, we might all have to live off the land - fish, hunt etc, till we can get things up and running again.

 

[Smurf1976]

I am an issues voter I have no clue what left or right wing even suppose to mean in 2022.

Thinking people sure, they look at issues individually and can't easily be pigeon holed.

There's many who don't however. Some do basically quote a political ideology word for word and no amount of facts, figures and reasoning will persuade them otherwise. Work out which ideology they're on and it's a bit like having a mix tape. If you've heard it before well you know what song comes next.

 

[qldfrog]

Also a record number of cattle in feed lots.

Australia farming as good as can be,but world wide is a different matter,and food is a weapon.
Let's not forget that this is an engineered crisis.supply chain collapse is not due to covid but covid measures.
Same for fertiliser shortage,oil price etc no physical cause or hardly but political and geopolitical move.
Most famines are due to man made crisis and this remain true,and i am not talking CC here but war, governments decisions

 

[3 hound]

We have the second biggest canola crop in history forecast.
Wheat was records last and this financial year.

You want me to keep up?

Looking at charts averaged over a whole sector does not represent the lived experience of the devastation in localised areas due yo one in 100 year flood events following 10 years of drought - it's about being tone deaf and insensitive.

 

[Value Collector]

Gotta admit that as a very lactose-tolerant vegan, dairy would be the first thing I'd start taking again if supply of my beloved B12 and D fortified soy, or something similar, became unavailable long term.

All the proud histories of vegetarians, the long lists of famous intellectuals and geniuses who were vegetarians, also the best society-level example of plant-based eating in the case of higher-caste Indians...... all of that was pretty much veganism with only the addition of dairy.

I find lacto-vegetarianism a respectable position, just not the ideal one for me with the current options I have. Come ultimate, apocalyptic, food scarcity, we might all have to live off the land - fish, hunt etc, till we can get things up and running again.

Lacto-vegetarian is certainly a much lower impact diet that full on meat eating.

How ever my uncle is a diary farmer, and 4 of my cousins work on diary farms, and there is a lot of standard practices in diary farms which I now realise is completely immoral when there a viable alternatives.

 

[moXJO]

Looking at charts averaged over a whole sector does not represent the lived experience of the devastation in localised areas due yo one in 100 year flood events following 10 years of drought - it's about being tone deaf and insensitive.

I know the difficulties farmers face. But largely, when I make a comment, it's based on overall statistics.