Feminism

[sptrawler]

An example of this might be in finance/investment. I know a couple of female full service brokers, but no female financial planners. All but a very few economists and other commentators on finance, markets, and investment are male.

On retirement and super forums, a common remark is "if anything happens to me my wife wouldn't have any idea how to manage the Super". Yet no suggestion that this be changed.

On this forum the membership is overwhelmingly male. The occasional comment comes from another female on politics or religion. Why is it so? There are no physiological or age related factors that should deter women from being good at making money, yet there seems to be still an outdated assumption amongst some men, and women for that matter, that it belongs to the boys' club.

I can only speak from the perspective of my immediate family, and close friends, as they give candid responses.

However I find there is a distinct lack of interest in financial matters, especially by the females, other than the generic overview i.e we would like an investment property.

As for if, anything happens to me, I made it condition of starting the SMSF, that the better half input the data into the software.
Mainly because she is smarter with accounting logics, which isn't logical to me, it's reverse logic.IMO

 

[Julia]

Julia, you rightly pointed out that this forum is mostly male. Personally I would like to see a higher input by females, and there is no barrier to that happening.

Perhaps ladies are more worried about being shouted down by more aggressive males (I know that doesn't bother you as I've found out a few times ), however there is always going to be argument and debate on forums, so maybe it is a generally female characteristic to avoid confrontation even on an anonymous forum. I've noticed this on other forums too.

Don't confuse a determination to stand up for oneself with any remote liking for confrontation. The alternative option is to never offer a contrary opinion, or call out something which seems illogical. Might as well, then, just not even join a forum in the first place.

I'd much rather see a constructive, objective discussion with willingness to consider alternative views. This is something you display yourself quite often with a preparedness to reconsider thoughts expressed when an alternative is proposed.



The aggression on stock and investment forums seems exaggerated, seems to come from some sort of atmosphere of competition. It's so completely different from the generosity of intellectual sharing that exists on forums about literature and music where diversity of views are welcomed.

Don't underestimate the effects on anyone of being a target. It's why, e.g., I defend Tink's right to express her attachment to her religion in the face of concerted attacks, even though I'm completely opposed to religion.

 

[Tink]

Julia, we have a few females in here, sails, Miss Hale, DocK, there is probably more.

 

[Craton]

I wonder if the author of that article is a feminist.

Research has shown that the structure of men's and women brains are different and that leads to a different way of thinking by the sexes. One is not more or less intelligent than the other, they just use grey and white cells in different ways.

The article you posted seems fairly typical of feminists who try and alter the reality of biology to mesh with their own views of "equality".

Like most things, there'll always be opposing views.

Funny where this topic has taken me and I find that people have/are raising their kids as gender neutral or opposite to the kid's gender. I can't help but wonder how these kid's brains are wired.

 

[SirRumpole]

Like most things, there'll always be opposing views.

Funny where this topic has taken me and I find that people have/are raising their kids as gender neutral or opposite to the kid's gender. I can't help but wonder how these kid's brains are wired.

True, but when we start talking about "gender neutral" toys, then we are getting into the world of wacky feminist fundamentalism.

I can tell you that as a young boy I would much rather have got a slot car set for Christmas than a dolly, and that was with very little advertising on the minimal amount of tv that we were allowed to watch, and therefore little social conditioning.

It is radical feminists that are trying to change the "wiring" to suit their own theories instead of just accepting that boys and girls are different (thank God !) and have their own interests.

 

[Craton]

True, but when we start talking about "gender neutral" toys, then we are getting into the world of wacky feminist fundamentalism.

I can tell you that as a young boy I would much rather have got a slot car set for Christmas than a dolly, and that was with very little advertising on the minimal amount of tv that we were allowed to watch, and therefore little social conditioning.

SR, pre TV advertising was a lot different http://www.thepeoplehistory.com/toys.html and window shopping was a favourite family pastime. I would also counter that since the time of men hunting and women gathering there has always been social conditioning.

It is radical feminists that are trying to change the "wiring" to suit their own theories instead of just accepting that boys and girls are different (thank God !) and have their own interests.

Fundamentalism and radical seems to be the norm nowadays eh.

Still, there is much still to learn about how our brain functions and here I'm thinking transgender like Chaz Bono. Sorta blows the whole born male, think male; born female, think female theory out of the water too doesn't it?

 

[sydboy007]

While in London recently I did one of the Yeoman guided tours at the Tower of London. Highly recommend it if you go there.

He said he's not sexist but his 2 question survey seems to show where the interests between the sexes lies.

basically he said if you could only see the armoury or the crown jewels which would you see. Overwhelmingly the men wanted to see the armoury, while the woman pretty much all wanted to see the crown jewels.

I'm sure there's a phd thesis in there as to the whys of that. But it is how it is.

I've read a few articles over the years where there is a growing debate about segregating boys and girls at school since girls have a greater ability to sit and learn compared to younger boys. From a bit of googling I can't find any of the articles, but it was interesting to see the pilot programs in some of the Aussie states were having significant benefits for the boys in terms of their math / english / writing scores. There was also positive steps in terms of the boys engagement at school as the style of classes involved a lot more physcial activities.

The fact is we have different levels of hormones hitting out bodies as we develop, so it's not too hard to accept that there's going to be differences in the best way for boys and girls to learn.

I'd like to see more of what kids are taught integrated into real life. Too much seems theoretical and removed from day to day life. Create interest and the learning is so much easier.

 

[Julia]

Julia, we have a few females in here, sails, Miss Hale, DocK, there is probably more.

Yes, and you left out the uber sensible Ruby, Tink. But none of them post on any regular basis.

 

[Value Collector]

I would be interested to hear what people thought of this ladies comments about the Kim Kardashian photo shoot.

To me her comments are a step back for feminism, she makes comments alluding that Kim's husband should have stopped her doing this, and that women should dress a certain way etc. Telling women what they can and can't wear and what they can and can't show in photos is the opposite of feminism to me, it's the same line of thinking the Muslims use when forcing women into burqas, she also describes Kim as being a cheap $3 bill and having slurrish ways.

The part I am talking about starts at the 2.30 minute mark.

 

[SirRumpole]

I would be interested to hear what people thought of this ladies comments about the Kim Kardashian photo shoot.

To me her comments are a step back for feminism, she makes comments alluding that Kim's husband should have stopped her doing this, and that women should dress a certain way etc. Telling women what they can and can't wear and what they can and can't show in photos is the opposite of feminism to me, it's the same line of thinking the Muslims use when forcing women into burqas, she also describes Kim as being a cheap $3 bill and having slurrish ways.

The part I am talking about starts at the 2.30 minute mark.

Maybe you are starting with a false premise, that the perceived needs of feminism trumps all other concerns.

I think that most men would not be wanting their wives to be flaunting their private parts in public, and frankly I would have a low opinion of women who do this. It's their right to do it, but I would say that I would prefer to seek the company of women who have some degree of dignity, and the appreciation of public and private roles.

 

[Value Collector]

Maybe you are starting with a false premise, that the perceived needs of feminism trumps all other concerns.

.

What are the concerns you are talking about that would trump the rights of women?

I think that most men would not be wanting their wives to be flaunting their private parts in public

In this case the husband was fine with it. But does society have the right to judge him on being fine with it?

and frankly I would have a low opinion of women who do this.

Why? what makes you think low of a women who poses naked?

It's their right to do it, but I would say that I would prefer to seek the company of women who have some degree of dignity

,

Dignity - the state or quality of being worthy of honour or respect.

It's weird to me that some one showing their body makes them unworthy of honour or respect in your eyes. Although not the same, Muslims say they have no respect for women that wear short skirts, of in some cases just show their arms, face or hair.

Aren't people worthy of respect regardless of what they wear?

I mean it's not like she did a streak at a footy match, I would lose respect for people that did that, mainly because the purpose was to be a public nuisance, but taking photos in a studio, and publishing them in a magazine, is a lot different to me, my opinion of her hasn't changed either way.

 

[SirRumpole]

What are the concerns you are talking about that would trump the rights of women?

The spread of pornography and the consequent devaluation of women in the minds of young males who then grow up to have an ingrained image of women as being little more than sex objects. If you complain about domestic violence, consider how much the "women as sex slaves" image has contributed to it.

In this case the husband was fine with it. But does society have the right to judge him on being fine with it?

Society will always make a judgement on social concerns, and has the right to do so. It doesn't mean that society is always right, but those concepts are not easy to define in a lot of cases.

Why? what makes you think low of a women who poses naked?

It doesn't conform to my definition of dignity and self respect that people should have about themselves and their partners, plus the fact that a lot of people who posed nude are now getting indignant that those photos are circulating around the internet, so there is obviously some shame attached to the process.
,

Dignity - the state or quality of being worthy of honour or respect.

It's weird to me that some one showing their body makes them unworthy of honour or respect.

Fine, send your partner off to pose nude for a few magazines, you may not have to slave away on the stock market any more.

 

[sydboy007]

I would be interested to hear what people thought of this ladies comments about the Kim Kardashian photo shoot.

Reminds me of Lina Esco and her involvement in the free the nipple campaign. The idea behind it is to show the double standards within the USA and how showing acts of violence within films is often glorified, but a female nipple is often censored.

http://www.freethenipple.com/

I'd say we're at least a generation away from seeing the naked body as something to be ashamed of.

 

[Value Collector]

The spread of pornography

I don't see pornography that's made by and viewed by consenting adults as immoral, so I don't fear its "spread", its always been around.

And I don't really see a nude photo as being real pornography any way.

and the consequent devaluation of women in the minds of young males who then grow up to have an ingrained image of women as being little more than sex objects.

If you have the opinion that a woman who shows her body deserves less respect, you're devaluing women more than me, and if you pass the opinion to your children that it's ok to disrespect the girl wearing the shorter dress or the girl that happened to send a topless text to her boyfriend then it's your views that are contributing to the devaluation of women and creating an image of sex objects, not the act of wearing the shorter dress or the nude photo itself.

I will raise my boys to respect all women regardless of what they wear, or the photos they take

If you complain about domestic violence, consider how much the "women as sex slaves" image has contributed to it.

I can't see a link between the photo and sex slaves, if you see a women nude and think "sex slave" that's your issue.

It doesn't conform to my definition of dignity and self respect that people should have about themselves and their partners,

On the same line of thinking Muslims believe that women who show their hair or legs or sometimes even face should be disrespected.

plus the fact that a lot of people who posed nude are now getting indignant that those photos are circulating around the internet, so there is obviously some shame attached to the process.

Taking photos or videos of yourself or your consenting partner is not immoral, hacking a computer and stealing and spreading them is, that's what they are upset about, its the invasion of privacy.

Also, the fact that people like you will shame them for it, its not the act or photo that upsets them, its the publics reaction to it.

Fine, send your partner off to pose nude for a few magazines, you may not have to slave away on the stock market any more

That would be her choice, I don't own my partner, I can't "send her off" to do anything. But my partner I a beautiful women, if he decided to do some classy nude photographs I wouldn't be against it, it might be fun to look back when we are old.

It's just the human body, nothing to shame people for.

 

[SirRumpole]

If you have the opinion that a woman who shows her body deserves less respect, you devaluing women more than me, and if you pass the opinion to your children that it's ok to disrespect the girl wearing the shorter dress or the girl that happened to send a topless text to her boyfriend then it's your views that are contributing to the devaluation of women, not the act of wearing the shorter dress or the nude photo itself.

I don't go around beating up women, but some do

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...internet-pornography-admits-Keir-Starmer.html

 

[Tisme]

I would be interested to hear what people thought of this ladies comments about the Kim Kardashian photo shoot.

To me her comments are a step back for feminism, she makes comments alluding that Kim's husband should have stopped her doing this, and that women should dress a certain way etc.

I don't care what they say, that presenter is a bloke!

If you have spent time n the USA (and you probably have) you would know it is a dominating male society. Some States the women look so much alike with Stepford hairstyles and dress sense that it can be unsettling.

 

[Value Collector]

I don't go around beating up women, but some do

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...internet-pornography-admits-Keir-Starmer.html

I maintain my points, pornography when made and viewed by adults is not immoral.

and,

When you raise children and expose them to the concept that women who dress a certain way deserve less respect, they will grow up disrespecting the females they encounter.

I don't care whether a female is lawyer, a high class escort, school teacher or a lap dancer their jobs don't entitle me to disrespect either of them.

 

[Value Collector]

If you have spent time n the USA (and you probably have) you would know it is a dominating male society. Some States the women look so much alike with Stepford hairstyles and dress sense that it can be unsettling.

I haven't noticed it, but that is probably because of the areas I have spent time in, being mostly LA and other parts of California.

 

[SirRumpole]

I maintain my points, pornography when made and viewed by adults is not immoral.

The Internet has ensured that children get more access to pr0n than ever before. Try doing some research (including reading the article I quoted) about the effects of pr0n on young minds and whether you think that's ok. Continued exposure to it is probably just as bad as exposure to religion that you keep complaining about.

I don't care whether a female is lawyer, a high class escort, school teacher or a lap dancer their jobs don't entitle me to disrespect either of them.

You could say the same about politicians, but disrespect them we do.

It's about the effects that their actions have on society and their low standards of public behaviour.

If I believe that a women stripping off for money entitles them to less respect than a woman scientist who conducts herself with dignity in public and achieves something positive for society, then I have a right to that opinion, just as I have a right to judge the behaviour of politicians and their antics.

 

[Craton]

I think some of the comments re. Kim Kardashian are missing and muddying the point by the use of semantics. The real question is of course, natural or shaved vajayjay, is one more feminist than the other?

Sorry, back to normal transmission....