Fake news and its effect on the community

[dutchie]

Time for a scotch.

Lol

 

[basilio]

More fake news, along with fake fires, fake smoke and fake scientists using fake figures to tell us the fake fires portend the end of the world as we know it.
Thank heavens our astute, super intelligent leaders and their equally astute followers can point out out xhit fakery of all this concern.

Leading scientists condemn political inaction on climate change as Australia 'literally burns'
Climate experts ‘bewildered’ by government ‘burying their heads in the sand’, and say bushfires on Australia’s east coast should be a ‘wake-up call’

https://www.theguardian.com/austral...n-climate-change-as-australia-literally-burns

 

[basilio]

Back to fake news - and Facebook refusing to do anything about black and white examples of poisonous stories.
Print Email Facebook Twitter More
Anthony Albanese to take aim at social media giants, accusing them of robbing politics of civility
Federal Labor leader Anthony Albanese will take a swing at Facebook in his last major speech of the political year, accusing the social media giant of being complacent with false information.

Key points:

• 
  
  
  • Anthony Albanese wants social media websites held to account for the content they host
  • He will argue misinformation is negatively influencing the public's opinion of the political system
  • The Labor leader will also renew calls for an overhaul of freedom of information laws

In a speech to the Chifley Research Centre Conference in Sydney on Saturday, Mr Albanese will criticise online platforms for being unwilling to filter out content, even when it is wrong.
He will reference images circulated on Facebook doctored to show Mr Albanese purportedly supporting men's rights activist Leith Erikson's campaign against the Family Court.

"Now, here's the rub: unless you'd seen the original, there is no way that you would know the image was a fake. My words were replaced with Mr Erikson's. The image even included my legal authorisation at the bottom — a clear breach of Australia's electoral laws," he will say.

"When we raised this with Facebook, they shrugged. They said it wasn't a breach of community guidelines.

"What then happens when platforms become so complacent with misinformation that they become unable to filter it out?"

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-12-07/anthony-albanese-to-take-a-swipe-at-facebook/11775490

 

[SirRumpole]

Back to fake news - and Facebook refusing to do anything about black and white examples of poisonous stories.
Print Email Facebook Twitter More
Anthony Albanese to take aim at social media giants, accusing them of robbing politics of civility
Federal Labor leader Anthony Albanese will take a swing at Facebook in his last major speech of the political year, accusing the social media giant of being complacent with false information.

Key points:

• 
  
  
  • Anthony Albanese wants social media websites held to account for the content they host
  • He will argue misinformation is negatively influencing the public's opinion of the political system
  • The Labor leader will also renew calls for an overhaul of freedom of information laws

In a speech to the Chifley Research Centre Conference in Sydney on Saturday, Mr Albanese will criticise online platforms for being unwilling to filter out content, even when it is wrong.
He will reference images circulated on Facebook doctored to show Mr Albanese purportedly supporting men's rights activist Leith Erikson's campaign against the Family Court.

"Now, here's the rub: unless you'd seen the original, there is no way that you would know the image was a fake. My words were replaced with Mr Erikson's. The image even included my legal authorisation at the bottom — a clear breach of Australia's electoral laws," he will say.

"When we raised this with Facebook, they shrugged. They said it wasn't a breach of community guidelines.

"What then happens when platforms become so complacent with misinformation that they become unable to filter it out?"

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-12-07/anthony-albanese-to-take-a-swipe-at-facebook/11775490

Fair points he raises.

There needs to be much stronger action taken against posters and platforms.

Making misrepresentation a criminal offence may make a lot of people think twice about spreading falsities.

 

[basilio]

One of the biggest lies peddled by Boris Johnston about Labour is saying they intend to get rid of the Capital Gains tax on the family home. Basically Labour is after your home. Scary stuff indeed.

This lie was run across The Mail on Sunday and then re-peddled by Boris.

Finally, finally an official complaint against the lie has seen "action" but not until the election is over.

Why do I have to break an embargo in order to expose press lies about Labour?
George Monbiot
We’ve taken on the Mail on Sunday and won. But the newspaper regulator won’t correct the story till after the election

@GeorgeMonbiot
Tue 10 Dec 2019 17.00 AEDT Last modified on Tue 10 Dec 2019 17.02 AEDT

Shares
160

One of the golden rules of journalism is that you don’t break an embargo – a block on publication until a certain date. For the first time in my career, I’m breaking one now. The moral case for doing so outweighs the moral case for respecting it.

For five months the press regulator, Ipso, which was set up by British newspapers, has been considering a complaint that could play a role in this election. It concerns an outrageous lie about the Labour party first published by the Mail on Sunday and repeated many times by other newspapers and the Conservative party.

Two weeks ago, Ipso ruled against the paper, and imposed a major sanction. The Mail on Sunday asked for a review of the decision, delaying its publication.

As far as voters are concerned, the lie stands. A key claim used to tip the balance against Labour remains uncorrected.

The review upheld the decision, but it still hasn’t been published. So, as far as voters are concerned, the lie stands. A key claim used to tip the balance against Labour remains uncorrected. I owe more to the truth than I do to the embargo.

.... The rewards for political lying are massive: they include winning referendums and elections. The penalties are either nonexistent or tiny. If the Conservative party is sanctioned by the Electoral Commission for any of its outrageous lying and cheating, it might, long after the election, have to pay the maximum fine of £20,000, which a friendly billionaire could doubtless pull out of his back pocket.

If elections are won by lies, we find ourselves governed by liars. They won’t hesitate to ramp up their deceptions when in office. One focus is likely to be voter suppression. Already the Conservatives, learning from Republican tricks in the US, have floated the idea that people must bring photo ID to the polling booths. They know that 3.5 million people, few of whom are likely to vote Conservative, don’t possess it.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/dec/10/break-embargo-expose-press-lies-labour
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2...s-mail-on-sunday-over-labour-movers-tax-claim

 

[sptrawler]

Jeez I hope this is all tonque in cheek, how either side of politics can take the high moral ground on honesty, is beyond the pale.
It just appears that anyone can start a 'band wagon' and all the virtue signalers jump on board.
I guess eventually the cause, will be a righteous one, rather than an emotional crusade that tries to steamroll any debate .

 

[qldfrog]

Jeez I hope this is all tonque in cheek, how either side of politics can take the high moral ground on honesty, is beyond the pale.
It just appears that anyone can start a 'band wagon' and all the virtue signalers jump on board.
I guess eventually the cause, will be a righteous one, rather than an emotional crusade that tries to steamroll any debate .

Tell him he is dreaming...
Nothing can go against the good words
We have people telling crap aware of it but ok with that because it is for the good cause
Anything as long as it results in a move they think is the right one
I really like that article
https://www.forbes.com/sites/michae...kZ5hg6-8iFEH2_10uX1E-21QaJWqgAr0#de22c2512d6a

 

[qldfrog]

An

Jeez I hope this is all tonque in cheek, how either side of politics can take the high moral ground on honesty, is beyond the pale.
It just appears that anyone can start a 'band wagon' and all the virtue signalers jump on board.
I guess eventually the cause, will be a righteous one, rather than an emotional crusade that tries to steamroll any debate .

And by the way nice to see your cruise was not in NZ and you did not go to observe bubbling geisers there

 

[basilio]

Interesting take on truth by SP and Qfrog. Seems as if there is no lie that can be made up about non right parties that creates any sort of concern.
Trump was right wasn't he ? He could shoot someone in broad daylight in New York and get away with it. After all why would anyone whose opinion he thinks is worth worrying about actually believe he did it ?

The bottom line is clear. You all seem comfortable with it.

If elections are won by lies we will be governed by liars.

 

[sptrawler]

Interesting take on truth by SP and Qfrog. Seems as if there is no lie that can be made up about non right parties that creates any sort of concern.
Trump was right wasn't he ? He could shoot someone in broad daylight in New York and get away with it. After all why would anyone whose opinion he thinks is worth worrying about actually believe he did it ?

The bottom line is clear. You all seem comfortable with it.

If elections are won by lies we will be governed by liars.

I wouldn't mind, if the same amount of gusto was put in by yourself, into negative press reports when those who you hold so highly are denigrated for similar indiscretions or indeed any indiscretions.
Volumes of superfluous accusations and postings, doesn't in itself make something true, untill it is proven.
Until then it is the ramblings of those on a crusade, ala the Isreal Folau case, where the press said that RA had a 'slam dunk' case to blow Folau out of the water, yet when push came to shove they had nothing but their own narrow minded virtue signalling beliefs.
Just my opinion.
I've always said, I love your passion, but find your lack of understanding of the issues or opposing arguments, usually undermines it.
Take for example Trump, you post up endless dribble and chook fodder from any and every source, yet Trump even though he may be the most unsavory person you would ever meet, is taking on the Chinese and their decimation of international manufacturing and intellectual theft. Which in reality is collapsing our living standard, but you never mention anything about that? Yet that is what is going to affect your children and grand children's living standards

 

[qldfrog]

Nive find about the uk election, now if Brexit wins, we will have 5 y of they lied, they /them are not legitimate etc
Remind you something?
Does this mean Labour is not even considering a win?
Or just insurance?

 

[sptrawler]

An

And by the way nice to see your cruise was not in NZ and you did not go to observe bubbling geisers there

We went to Kagoshima, which has an active volcano just off shore as in NZ, the last thing I was going to do was go over to it.
I am old enough to remember the St Helens pictures, unlike some, I can learn from the experience of others.

 

[sptrawler]

Nive find about the uk election, now if Brexit wins, we will have 5 y of they lied, they /them are not legitimate etc
Remind you something?
Does this mean Labour is not even considering a win?
Or just insurance?

What will be more interesting will be, if Johson wins and in five years time the U.K is doing really well, we will hear very little.
If they are doing worse, it will be World news to warn everyone, who dares go against the establishment and the press.

 

[qldfrog]

So

Interesting take on truth by SP and Qfrog. Seems as if there is no lie that can be made up about non right parties that creates any sort of concern.
Trump was right wasn't he ? He could shoot someone in broad daylight in New York and get away with it. After all why would anyone whose opinion he thinks is worth worrying about actually believe he did it ?

The bottom line is clear. You all seem comfortable with it.

If elections are won by lies we will be governed by liars.

Did you read this link.simple question?
Anything you can point as being wrong? Please do, i need ,actually wish i could join your crusade
And if not, does that not mean that terrible lies are being propagated by "your" side..you know
Us vs they, them, the right, the subhumans who doubt the cause...
That is the essence of this thread.

I have no real problem with fake news.i expect them from all sides.but i have a problem and take issue when people supposedly relatively educated are blinded by a fanatism i never saw before but on religious nutcracks, Muslims crazies and integrist Christians....
And they can not even see it themselves
as to admit, that would be defeat..sptrawler or qfrog would win....
Do you realise i and probably others do not care about being right or wrong, we or i at least want to find and see the truth.
There is a lot of i, you see it is a personal honesty issue, not a group not a we think
And for my own position, i would never allow for lies even if it leads to a good or better outcome.
To each his own

 

[basilio]

I raised the issue of how Boris Johnston made up a BIG lie about Labours election policy to scare people intro voting Tory. The question of people paying capital gains tax on their home is important and certainly would sway voters. To say Labour is proposing such an action when their policy platform rules that out seems just an out and out lie.

In fact of course Boris Johnsons form on the Brexit vote however is identical. He just lies.

Donald Trump ? What can you say ? If people don't understand the principals behind separation of powers, not using government positions for personal gains, and good governance then certainly he is your man.

It is not a government or a democracy. Its a kleptocracy. Last time I looked that wasn't what the US was supposed to be . But times change dopn't they folks ? We have to get used to new ways of thinking don't we ?

As far as Qfrogs link ? What is happening around the world? If people can't look at the fires that have raged across the US, Alaska, Northern Europe Brazil and Australia and can't recognise a serious problem - I can't help them.
If we can't see now that rising temperatures are making our country so much more vulnerable to bushfires then I can't see what will change peoples mind.

Michael Shellenberger has a number of critical pieces of misinformation in his article.
1) He believes that nuclear power is a better cost effective alternative than renewables.. This is just factually wrong. End of story.

2) He argues that coal power is a better option for poorer counties It isn't. Again end of story. In 2020 a mix of renewable energy and storage systems is simply more cost effective than new coal fired power stations. We have the figures in Australia. They translate across the world. That doesn't even take into account the effects of pollution on health

One could go through his entire story and point out quite ridiculous arguments. In which universe will it be practical for all coastal based cities to protect themselves from a metre increase in sea levels ? He cites the Netherlands as an example of a success. Yes. Over hundreds of years with a small area and certainly not tackling the levels of sea rise we are facing.

He also completely ignores the the impact of 2-3 degrees increase in temperature across the world. Be quite clear about this. Those sort of temperature increase will make large sections of the earth uninhabitable for humans and most of our current ecosystems.

https://www.livescience.com/58891-why-2-degrees-celsius-increase-matters.html

For a more realistic understanding of what we are facing NASA is a more sober source.
https://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/

 

[qldfrog]

I raised the issue of how Boris Johnston made up a BIG lie about Labours election policy to scare people intro voting Tory. The question of people paying capital gains tax on their home is important and certainly would sway voters. To say Labour is proposing such an action when their policy platform rules that out seems just an out and out lie.

In fact of course Boris Johnsons form on the Brexit vote however is identical. He just lies.

Donald Trump ? What can you say ? If people don't understand the principals behind separation of powers, not using government positions for personal gains, and good governance then certainly he is your man.

It is not a government or a democracy. Its a kleptocracy. Last time I looked that wasn't what the US was supposed to be . But times change dopn't they folks ? We have to get used to new ways of thinking don't we ?

As far as Qfrogs link ? What is happening around the world? If people can't look at the fires that have raged across the US, Alaska, Northern Europe Brazil and Australia and can't recognise a serious problem - I can't help them.
If we can't see now that rising temperatures are making our country so much more vulnerable to bushfires then I can't see what will change peoples mind.

Michael Shellenberger has a number of critical pieces of misinformation in his article.
1) He believes that nuclear power is a better cost effective alternative than renewables.. This is just factually wrong. End of story.

2) He argues that coal power is a better option for poorer counties It isn't. Again end of story. In 2020 a mix of renewable energy and storage systems is simply more cost effective than new coal fired power stations. We have the figures in Australia. They translate across the world. That doesn't even take into account the effects of pollution on health

One could go through his entire story and point out quite ridiculous arguments. In which universe will it be practical for all coastal based cities to protect themselves from a metre increase in sea levels ? He cites the Netherlands as an example of a success. Yes. Over hundreds of years with a small area and certainly not tackling the levels of sea rise we are facing.

He also completely ignores the the impact of 2-3 degrees increase in temperature across the world. Be quite clear about this. Those sort of temperature increase will make large sections of the earth uninhabitable for humans and most of our current ecosystems.

https://www.livescience.com/58891-why-2-degrees-celsius-increase-matters.html

For a more realistic understanding of what we are facing NASA is a more sober source.
https://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/

As i said @basilio, the new fanatics
During that time,, and just as another example we are releasing crisp modified genes all over the world, and you do not have to be a Nobel prise winner to imagine what will happen if the gene cut affects a virus or bacteria and transform its signature.
Or just the simple idea of going from 8 to 12 billions by the end of the century
So even IF we were to agree on the fact CO2 is a threat, i will still state that any realistic projection will see this as a minor issue vs the rest of the plague we are releasing in this world be it ecosystem collapse, religion fanatism,etc etc
Unless we blame CC for it as well..
The simplest solutions are easy to sell and often wrong
Blame the Jews
Blame the communists
Blame the capitalists
Blame the rich(er)s
And now blame GW...
Less tigers water snow insects or bees, blame GW
That is now an easy fake news indicator.
For the tax on housing in the UK you mention, fair it is a nasty but the new Labour leader there is a rabid extreme communist and i do not doubt as full of lies as the opponents
.from memory, he is telling the right want to dismantle the nhs, etc
BS as well
You remember the mediscare here?
Uk is voting on Brexit Point.

 

[wayneL]

Hey @basilio

anyone who believes the other side are always thieves and liars and those who support them as deplorables etcetera, and then on the same hand, believes everyone from theie own side as paragons of virtue, is really just a freakin idiot.

We're all biased in favour of our own side but, Jesus Christ, man! Such one eyed delusion is embarrassing!

 

[IFocus]

Complaints about one side accusing the other only ever getting coverage.

There is a problem with this line of thinking........which side of politics currently are in power through out the western world.....eh?

Next question how is it we are seeing the greatest transfer of wealth ever in the modern era......eh?

That's before we get to the biggest unfunded tax handouts to wealthy / corporations creating one of the greatest government budget debts seen in the US and likely coming to AU.

Then there is the reductions of workers rights and conditions, containment of wages (read about Amazon workers).....slave labour.......slave labour oh yeah de-regulation gig economy anyone FFS

Lets try the Australian version everyone's mate, baseball cap wearing fossil uses attack laws to go after workers reps while Banks rip off people blind for billions, yep really unfair to criticise our best mate FFS.

Defending Trump.....really? Thats right its OK because Hillary would have been worse, god help us.

Nice bubble, FYJIAOR, medication what ever it is.

Then we get to the the quite people.........is that what you want?

 

[rederob]

So even IF we were to agree on the fact CO2 is a threat, i will still state that any realistic projection will see this as a minor issue vs the rest of the plague we are releasing in this world be it ecosystem collapse, religion fanatism,etc etc

The problem with your opinions is that they are just guesses.
There are bodies of evidence that vividly show what has so far happened, and that the probable trajectory cannot be overcome in the next hundred years even assuming that if tomorrow CO2 levels show zero additional anthropogenic contributions over that period.
Where you read and quote from are not where knowledge lies and it tempers your judgement.
I don't suffer any allusions about you changing your nature but I do care when people indiscriminately peddle fake news because it reinforces the world view that keeps them stable.
In a completely different forum I recently showed that if you think the planet is not flat then you are relying on people who are trained to prove these matters rather than your own supreme intellect.
In journalism it is not much different as nowadays it's so much easier to get to source material and work out for yourself where the "truth" lies (if you enjoy that juxtaposition).
The most amazing case of current denial exists in the Presidential impeachment hearings where Republicans have prostituted reality to create a narrative that the President is actually a "victim." More telling is that on Party lines this "belief" is credible and no amount of actual "fact evidence" from witnesses can sway Trump's supporters.
And now for the clincher: To prove Trump's case has been a reliance on refusing to make witnesses and documents available... in others words by proactively hiding important information you can claim almost anything if your audience is gullible.

 

[moXJO]

The problem with your opinions is that they are just guesses.
There are bodies of evidence that vividly show what has so far happened, and that the probable trajectory cannot be overcome in the next hundred years even assuming that if tomorrow CO2 levels show zero additional anthropogenic contributions over that period.
Where you read and quote from are not where knowledge lies and it tempers your judgement.
I don't suffer any allusions about you changing your nature but I do care when people indiscriminately peddle fake news because it reinforces the world view that keeps them stable.
In a completely different forum I recently showed that if you think the planet is not flat then you are relying on people who are trained to prove these matters rather than your own supreme intellect.
In journalism it is not much different as nowadays it's so much easier to get to source material and work out for yourself where the "truth" lies (if you enjoy that juxtaposition).
The most amazing case of current denial exists in the Presidential impeachment hearings where Republicans have prostituted reality to create a narrative that the President is actually a "victim." More telling is that on Party lines this "belief" is credible and no amount of actual "fact evidence" from witnesses can sway Trump's supporters.
And now for the clincher: To prove Trump's case has been a reliance on refusing to make witnesses and documents available... in others words by proactively hiding important information you can claim almost anything if your audience is gullible.

Not sure you are the best guy to be pointing out where the "facts" lie.

You are 20/ 80 at best....