Electric cars?

[Value Collector]

I would tend to agree...it will take time to replace ICE with EV.

Assuming (for the moment) that that is the case: If CO2 emissions are a problem or contributory factor to (an assumed) global warming problem...isn't it all too late?

If the above is true and EVs can make a difference (statistically significant) to the global warming problem (assuming for the moment that there is a problem): then the reality is that the ICE needs to go now. Overnight (so to speak). Which, as I'm gathering, is not possible for any number of reasons.

jog on
duc

Of course it will take time to replace the vehicle fleet, But the fact is that as each old car gets replaced with a newer car, (even a non EV) it should be producing less carbon per KM driven, and thats a good thing, (never let perfect be the enemy of good).

And, if a person (rich or poor), decides to replace their car with some super efficient car, thats a great thing also.

But, we all know there is no one single solution, and climate change is cause by many factors.

Transport emissions only rates as number 3 on the list.

1, is Pollution caused by electricity (this is being attacked by our steady move towards greener sources)

2, is Animal agriculture and the clearing of forest to grow crops to feed animals, moving towards more plant based food sources helps with this.

3, is Transport, Creating more efficient vehicles and switching them to the ever greener grid helps with this, also forcing Oil producers to extract oil in ways that limits releases of byproducts helps to.

then as I showed in the video I linked above there is ways we remove carbon from the atmosphere and undone some old damage.

 

[basilio]

There is also the possibility of a steep rise in autonomous cars. If for arguments sake the overall number of cars fell because many people could share cars rather than own them the game would change.

But hey. That would threaten the profits of the car industry big time and that can't be allowed can it ?
(On the other hand industry might be so overwhelmed with the need to build new inland cities, fortify infrastructure, build CO2 sucking machines they wouldn't mind...)

 

[sptrawler]

As frog said, the issue really isnt in the first World, India, South America and the like have very little ability to replace their fleet, as they become more afluent, they will buy more ICE cars, as the infrastructure isnt there to support electric
Lets be honest it will take time here, and we only have a population of 25million, how hard will it be in a third World Country that is industrialising?
Unless they have gas reserves, they will use coal, so it all becomes a bit of chase your tail stuff. IMO
This is one of the problems associated with industrialising third World Countries to improve their living standards, with it comes affluence, with affluence comes energy consumption.
Like I said earlier, we could switch of all the coal fired generation tomorrow, if everyone stopped using their fridges, air cons, computers, 65 inch t.vs etc, but that aint going to happen.
We just demand, we want it and we want now and we want it clean.lol
We never stop wanting, which in the end, will be the downfall of humans.
I just cant understand how people think this is solvable, without nuclear, but hey what do I know.

 

[sptrawler]

Mercedes having trouble sourcing enough batteries for its E.V's.

https://www.mining.com/web/mercedes-halves-ev-production-target-due-to-battery-shortage/

 

[Smurf1976]

I just cant understand how people think this is solvable, without nuclear, but hey what do I know.

Technically it could be done.

Politics makes it problematic at the global level to actually do it however since the technical solution ideally removes any concept of political boundaries whereas at the moment we can't even get neighbouring countries Saudi Arabia and Qatar to work together and the former ends up burning crude oil in power stations whilst the latter along with Iran sit on almost a quarter of the world's gas reserves.

Lots of things like that where the politics gets in the way when it comes to energy.

 

[sptrawler]

Lots of things like that where the politics gets in the way when it comes to energy.

Western Europe is already stressed about the gas supplies coming from Russia, it does put the Countries in a bit of a precarious position, if hostilities break out.
Not much fun sitting in the dark, when you have no fuel to run your power stations, it would be nice to think it would never happen but history doesn't support the dream.

 

[macca]

Western Europe is already stressed about the gas supplies coming from Russia, it does put the Countries in a bit of a precarious position, if hostilities break out.
Not much fun sitting in the dark, when you have no fuel to run your power stations, it would be nice to think it would never happen but history doesn't support the dream.

If Mr Putin restricts the gas flow things could get very ugly in Europe within a few days.

 

[qldfrog]

On the dame stream of concepts, EU would like to build solar farms in northern Africa to feed europe with green energy
Great on paper, less when the knive head cutters are over the Mediterranean

 

[Smurf1976]

Worth mentioning in view of recent comments that prior to concern about emissions, supply security was the first and foremost issue when it came to energy.

Go back to 1980, mention the word "energy", and it would be assumed you were talking about the oil supply situation unless it was specifically stated that you were referring to something else eg electricity.

That France relies so heavily on nuclear and the around the world there are so many 4 x ~500 MW coal-fired plants in numerous countries both owe their existence to the oil crisis which began in October 1973 and in practice ran through to the end of 1985.

Here in Australia the conversion of Kwinana power station (now closed) stages C and A to coal, building the gas pipeline from central Australia to Darwin (previously 100% reliant on oil for power) and a general push to convert all non-transport uses of fuel to electricity, gas or solid fuels were all responses to that situation as was the promotion of LPG for vehicles. Concern about oil supplies was also part, not all but part, of the reason behind building Northern power station in SA (the one that was famously blown up with explosives not too long ago) and was about a third of the reason behind the highly controversial hydro-electric dam building plans in Tasmania at the time.

That other countries, most notably Japan, were desperate to find power sources other than oil is also a major factor in why Australia became such a large exporter of coal and later gas. Coal from Queensland and NSW was a direct and easily implemented alternative to Middle East oil in Japanese power stations. Cheap, plenty of it and from a different part of the world.

There's a supply security benefit with EV's even if they're powered using coal. Not necessarily an environmental benefit in that scenario but a physical supply one given the spread of coal deposits around the world.

Whilst oil supply isn't currently a problem, it would be naive to think it couldn't happen again. It caused outright havoc last time and as the Germans found out, in a physical shortage you can't get supply at any price.

 

[Value Collector]

Worth mentioning in view of recent comments that prior to concern about emissions, supply security was the first and foremost issue when it came to energy.

Go back to 1980, mention the word "energy", and it would be assumed you were talking about the oil supply situation unless it was specifically stated that you were referring to something else eg electricity.

That France relies so heavily on nuclear and the around the world there are so many 4 x ~500 MW coal-fired plants in numerous countries both owe their existence to the oil crisis which began in October 1973 and in practice ran through to the end of 1985.

Here in Australia the conversion of Kwinana power station (now closed) stages C and A to coal, building the gas pipeline from central Australia to Darwin (previously 100% reliant on oil for power) and a general push to convert all non-transport uses of fuel to electricity, gas or solid fuels were all responses to that situation as was the promotion of LPG for vehicles. Concern about oil supplies was also part, not all but part, of the reason behind building Northern power station in SA (the one that was famously blown up with explosives not too long ago) and was about a third of the reason behind the highly controversial hydro-electric dam building plans in Tasmania at the time.

That other countries, most notably Japan, were desperate to find power sources other than oil is also a major factor in why Australia became such a large exporter of coal and later gas. Coal from Queensland and NSW was a direct and easily implemented alternative to Middle East oil in Japanese power stations. Cheap, plenty of it and from a different part of the world.

There's a supply security benefit with EV's even if they're powered using coal. Not necessarily an environmental benefit in that scenario but a physical supply one given the spread of coal deposits around the world.

Whilst oil supply isn't currently a problem, it would be naive to think it couldn't happen again. It caused outright havoc last time and as the Germans found out, in a physical shortage you can't get supply at any price.

Tesla has also been helping communities in remote locations and Islands reduce the need for diesel power plants buy installing solar and battery farms, using electric vehicles in these places would be a great next step.

check out this short video.

 

[Value Collector]

I used the new “Navigate on Autopilot” feature that came in a recent update for the first time today.

I was actually pretty impressed.

My car drove itself like normal, but initiated lane changes by itself when it needed to

1, independently changed lanes to stay on the correct route when the highway split.

2, independently over took a slower car.

3, independently exited the freeway.

Of course you can turn off this feature and use standard auto pilot where it will just maintain its lane and you have to initiate lane changes yourself by using the indicator

 

[Value Collector]

I used the new “Navigate on Autopilot” feature that came in a recent update for the first time today.

I was actually pretty impressed.

My car drove itself like normal, but initiated lane changes by itself when it needed to

1, independently changed lanes to stay on the correct route when the highway split.

2, independently over took a slower car.

3, independently exited the freeway.

Of course you can turn off this feature and use standard auto pilot where it will just maintain its lane and you have to initiate lane changes yourself by using the indicator

Here is a video of what "Navigate on autopilot" is like in the model 3, you can see all the information it displays on the screen to let you know what its doing as it does it. (this is a USA vehicle though, everything is the same in Aussie cars, just switched to right hand drive and screen in reverse.)

 

[basilio]

Battery technology with Tesla is rocketing. This is not futuristic. Check out the video.

 

[qldfrog]

Battery technology with Tesla is rocketing. This is not futuristic. Check out the video.

Good stuff

 

[Value Collector]

Battery technology with Tesla is rocketing. This is not futuristic. Check out the video.

Yep, There is definitely awesome battery Tech coming in the not to distance future.

However, The current Tesla car and batteries are still amazing, if you consider the following 3 facts.

1, The current Tesla battery has a life of up to 700,000 kms, and a rest of vehicle life of 1,600,000 km life.

2, Once you have driven 700,000 km in your EV, you would have saved about $70,000 in Fuel costs, and another $35,000 in maintenance compared to a petrol car.

3, In 10 years if you have to replace the battery, it will probably cost some where between $5K and $10K, much less than the $105,000 you have already accrued in savings and the car will then be set for another 700,000 kms of driving and another $105,000 of savings before it gets to its 1,600,000 km vehicle design life.


So don't fall into the trap of thinking you have to wait for batteries to get better before the cars become worth it, they are already viable and way better than the alternatives.

 

[qldfrog]

Yep, There is definitely awesome battery Tech coming in the not to distance future.

However, The current Tesla car and batteries are still amazing, if you consider the following 3 facts.

1, The current Tesla battery has a life of up to 700,000 kms, and a rest of vehicle life of 1,600,000 km life.

2, Once you have driven 700,000 km in your EV, you would have saved about $70,000 in Fuel costs, and another $35,000 in maintenance compared to a petrol car.

3, In 10 years if you have to replace the battery, it will probably cost some where between $5K and $10K, much less than the $105,000 you have already accrued in savings and the car will then be set for another 700,000 kms of driving and another $105,000 of savings before it gets to its 1,600,000 km vehicle design life.


So don't fall into the trap of thinking you have to wait for batteries to get better before the cars become worth it, they are already viable and way better than the alternatives.

That is where the economic conflict based on usage, i drive relatively low mileage less than 20k kms a year so around 200k km in 10y
My savings will be less than a third of the 100k you quote so $30k
Tesla cost:80km minimum on the road
I never bought a car including the ute workhorse anywhere near the $50k range
Tesla remains a luxury item for me, and ev or not, i do not spend money on cars or show off items.my nature and why i got freedom in my mid 40s
I prefer seeing tesla than beemers in the street but either are still not for me

 

[Value Collector]

That is where the economic conflict based on usage, i drive relatively low mileage less than 20k kms a year so around 200k km in 10y
My savings will be less than a third of the 100k you quote so $30k
Tesla cost:80km minimum on the road
I never bought a car including the ute workhorse anywhere near the $50k range
Tesla remains a luxury item for me, and ev or not, i do not spend money on cars or show off items.my nature and why i got freedom in my mid 40s
I prefer seeing tesla than beemers in the street but either are still not for me

I totally understand personal finance decisions like that, my point is just that your decision shouldn’t be based on worry about battery life etc.

One of the biggest arguments I see against EVs from people in FB groups etc is that they say they are worth it because in 5 years you would have to buy a 20k battery, as I showed the math on that is simply not true.

 

[ducati916]

TSLA is essentially a computer on wheels. AAPL missed the boat on this one, Cook is obviously no Jobs. The issue for TSLA (the stock) is cash-flow and funding until it hits that critical production number. AAPL should, in any major stumble, look to buy the company and retain Musk (with some oversight).

jog on
duc

 

[qldfrog]

TSLA is essentially a computer on wheels. AAPL missed the boat on this one, Cook is obviously no Jobs. The issue for TSLA (the stock) is cash-flow and funding until it hits that critical production number. AAPL should, in any major stumble, look to buy the company and retain Musk (with some oversight).

jog on
duc

Agree as the car is a computer so if dine oroperly, even with no or minimal changes in hardware, you can improve the product, as VC experience with auto drive etc
As time goes and crashes bring experience, the software will become foolproof, and better than a human driver
No doubt there

 

[ducati916]

Here is a video of what "Navigate on autopilot" is like in the model 3, you can see all the information it displays on the screen to let you know what its doing as it does it. (this is a USA vehicle though, everything is the same in Aussie cars, just switched to right hand drive and screen in reverse.)

So, a hypothetical for you:

You are using the autopilot. There is an error. An accident follows. Other driver dies.

Where does your legal (criminal) liability lie?

jog on
duc