Electric cars?

[Value Collector]

I'm interested.

Do you have any links on this ?

check this out.

imagine process like this that can capture carbon directly from the air, and then combine them with hydrogen to produce what ever fuels/plastic we like.

of course I still think our road transport is best suited to electric/battery vehicles.

but jet fuels and other things that aren’t suited to battery tech could be using synthetic fuels in the future.

plants producing these types of fuels would be perfect for soaking up peak renewables supply, and also make great investments for both Bond and equity investors.




P.S I love love Gates is willing to tackle problems like this, No fortune is being spent better in my opinion than The Gates/buffet fortunes, both are amazing men.

 

[Value Collector]

True but would the alternative be better?
At the present, very far reached and we all agree
We adapt and innovate: the story of mankind, and where EV now take their place

mankind’s story is truly remarkable, but yes I think the only way forward is for us to eventually get to a point where 100% of our energy is derived through either renewables or nuclear.

there is simply no other way that is sustainable longterm so we have to get there eventually.

Also, big investments such as this fit very well into our capitalistic model.

each household can invest in their own solar panels/batteries for their own usage or resale.

and the energy companies can buy the excess + invest in their own large scale renewable electrical production to supply industry and the synthetic fuel market (Eg jets).

 

[qldfrog]

About nuclear, please please be careful of what you wish with nuclear
Nuclear and sustainable ate absolutely incompatible.
only the fact we do not have nuclear here can make it attraction, fusion, thorium yes
But fission uranium:
No thanks

 

[Smurf1976]

About nuclear, please please be careful of what you wish with nuclear
Nuclear and sustainable ate absolutely incompatible.

Very true.

There's arguably a case for continuing to operate those facilities already built so long as they remain safe and can be operated reasonably economically. That is, don't set any specific closure date based on regulation etc.

Whatever those plants generate, in the vast majority of cases is directly avoiding the use of coal, gas or in some cases oil and from an economic perspective, both financially and in terms of materials etc, the costs have mostly already been incurred during construction.

Building any more of them is however an entirely different matter and makes far less sense in my view. Only real exception is if you're on a densely populated island which has no credible earthquake risk is too far from any larger land mass to transmit power from there. That's not most places.

 

[Smurf1976]

but jet fuels and other things that aren’t suited to battery tech could be using synthetic fuels in the future

Agreed definitely.

To avoid confusion though I'll add that the term "synthetic" has a different meaning in the present day to the one it may have in the future that you're referring to.

Any "synthetic" oil that you can buy today is either produced using natural gas as the feedstock or is produced using an assortment of chemicals which, whilst they are not oil, were ultimately obtained from crude oil via various processes.

Mineral oil in the context of lubricants etc = simply refined from crude oil and some additives put in.

Synthetic oil = "built" from various chemical components but the ultimate origin of those components, via some complex chemistry, is still crude oil and/or natural gas.

There's some fancy tricks possible with all this stuff. I'm no industrial chemist but among others I'm aware of:

It's entirely possible to make ethanol, that is alcohol of the kind suitable for drinking, from petroleum. It's not how spirits or beer are actually made but it can be done.

Or for a practical one, the entire gas supply for Hobart during the period 1964 - 1978 was obtained from a plant cracking naphtha into gas. Naphtha is a clear flammable liquid derived from crude oil. For anyone familiar - the plant was located roughly where the now demolished cool store was later built, diagonally opposite the concert hall which didn't exist at the time. The plant was by no means unique, plenty of such things existed at the time in various parts of the world.

 

[qldfrog]

https://www.drive.com.au/news/humme...m-us-media-reports-123078.html?trackLink=SMH2
Am I going too far with the cybertruck offer and now this that we can now have green bogan dicks?
GM probably hoping weed legalisation will not go too far..;-)

 

[sptrawler]

This is a good explanation of the Toyota Mirai H2 fuel cell car.

https://ssl.toyota.com/mirai/assets...ks/Docs/MY18_Mirai_eBrochure_FuelCellTech.pdf

 

[Value Collector]

This is a good explanation of the Toyota Mirai H2 fuel cell car.

https://ssl.toyota.com/mirai/assets...ks/Docs/MY18_Mirai_eBrochure_FuelCellTech.pdf

So it is basically a hydrogen fuel cell/ Battery Hybrid, I honestly don’t get it.

I mean, basically what it comes down to is that instead of putting a larger battery into the car, you put a smaller battery in and use some of that battery space to put in a hydrogen tank and a fuel cell.

But, the battery driving is going to be so much cheaper than the hydrogen powered driving you will be gritting your teeth every time the hydrogen power comes on.

After driving my Tesla round for a few months now, including interstate trips I would hate to have a hydrogen tank.

Battery power is just so much more convenient, and easier to install charging stations than hydrogen stations.

the only winners of hydrogen are the oil companies in my opinion, ofcourse they would rather sell me hydrogen than have me charge in my garage using my own solar, but it’s better for me to avoid hydrogen.

 

[sptrawler]

I think hydrogen is a long, long, long way off, but the technology will be developed.
At the moment BEV's are definitely leading the march and in reality will help stabilise the electricity grid.

https://reneweconomy.com.au/renewab...per-australia-could-lead-global-market-95168/

The design of batteries needs to improve and the extraction of hydrogen does also, I think there will be massive steps forward in both mediums.

 

[Value Collector]

I think hydrogen is a long, long, long way off, but the technology will be developed.
At the moment BEV's are definitely leading the march and in reality will help stabilise the electricity grid.

https://reneweconomy.com.au/renewab...per-australia-could-lead-global-market-95168/

The design of batteries needs to improve and the extraction of hydrogen does also, I think there will be massive steps forward in both mediums.

yeah, there with definitely be ways to use hydrogen in the future, especially in creating synthetic jets fuels etc.

I am just not convinced it is the best way forward for our daily commuter cars.

 

[Smurf1976]

I think hydrogen is a long, long, long way off, but the technology will be developed.

Getting it to work as such isn't too difficult. Quite a few things from go-carts to full size cars were converted to hydrogen as part of some research work in Tasmania about a decade ago indeed one was even entered in a car race. Not that anyone expected the hydrogen powered Corolla to win the race but it was all about proving what could be done.

Doing it in a manner that's energy efficient, however, well that's far more difficult than just making it work as such. It's dead easy so long as you can live with 15% efficiency, much harder if you want something better.

 

[sptrawler]

Another entrant to the electric car space.
https://www.drive.com.au/news/2021-...ew-york-motor-show-123135.html?trackLink=SMH2

I suppose some of these smaller niche market companies, may get bought out if their product is good.

 

[orr]

Anyone in here keeping a close eye out for the Tesla battery investor spruke? maybe a month or two..
Can anyone give me any atuo Mfg company that is ahead or close and i mean less than 4-5yrs behind what TSLA's is doing at price and preformance?
And yes trawler those companies are being bought . Hybar and Maxwell. Should I tell you by who?
Currently we're at circa 250wh/kg with lithium. 400wh/kg is a speacial threshold, but not for cars...

 

[ducati916]

Batteries and renewables in general are made of earthly materials that have to be mined, transported, refined, and turned into finished products. The Tesla battery weighs about a thousand pounds and requires 500,000 pounds of raw material to be unearthed to build it.

Tesla doesn’t own the battery cell technology (AA-looking battery units) that goes into its batteries; that belongs to its partner, Japanese conglomerate Panasonic. Tesla designed the battery pack (the enclosure that houses the battery cells) and the battery management system controller (computer) that routes and manages electricity flow and the microclimate of the battery cells.

The battery is a key technology for Tesla, but as of right now Panasonic is in control of a big part of it. Tesla, which is vertically integrated, may eventually increase its control over its battery technology. The company’s purchase of Maxwell Technologies, which has a battery technology that may significantly lower the cost of cell manufacturing, is the first move toward independence from Panasonic.

jog on
duc

 

[Value Collector]

Batteries and renewables in general are made of earthly materials that have to be mined, transported, refined, and turned into finished products.

And then those “finished products” will be recycled and turned into new “finished products” at the end of their life.

So the materials that are used to create and use renewable energy will have a much longer life than the materials such as coal and oil that get mined and used once.

Also, it’s not like regular cars don’t use mined materials for their power trains.

 

[qldfrog]

Also, it’s not like regular cars don’t use mined materials for their power trains.

But those “finished products” ARE recycled and turned into new “finished products” ALREADY..
Lower upfront cost as iron is already well recycled..
But why spoil a good story with facts
EV are great but so far, not yet "green" in mainland Australia.easy to compute yourself..if you dare
Let's stop ideology and look at facts or figures however inconvenient it might be for egos
Tesla are the beemers of the leftists with a guilt complex.But there is no shame in liking and having good engineered toys if you can afford it, EV or not.
So bring EV, we need an economic stimulus and build new plants and factory, infrastructure and mines, etc etc.
The whole EU is actually launching an economic stimulus..to save the planet

 

[Value Collector]

But those “finished products” ARE recycled and turned into new “finished products” ALREADY..
Lower upfront cost as iron is already well recycled..
But why spoil a good story with facts
EV are great but so far, not yet "green" in mainland Australia.easy to compute yourself..if you dare
Let's stop ideology and look at facts or figures however inconvenient it might be for egos
Tesla are the beemers of the leftists with a guilt complex.But there is no shame in liking and having good engineered toys if you can afford it, EV or not.
So bring EV, we need an economic stimulus and build new plants and factory, infrastructure and mines, etc etc.
The whole EU is actually launching an economic stimulus..to save the planet

not sure what you are on about.

My point is simply that the mined materials that are used to make batteries and renewable energy can be recycled and used multiple times, potentially staying in use for 100 years or more, so it would be unfair to account for things as if they will be made from virgin materials forever.

Yes, Iron is recycled as well, but that doesn’t detract from The EV and renewable energy story.

 

[sptrawler]

not sure what you are on about.

My point is simply that the mined materials that are used to make batteries and renewable energy can be recycled and used multiple times, potentially staying in use for 100 years or more, so it would be unfair to account for things as if they will be made from virgin materials forever.

Yes, Iron is recycled as well, but that doesn’t detract from The EV and renewable energy story.

You do make it sound like perpetual motion, make a battery, then just keep re using it forever, nothing is lost just recycled. Rinse wash repeat, I dont think so. Lol

 

[Value Collector]

You do make it sound like perpetual motion, make a battery, then just keep re using it forever, nothing is lost just recycled. Rinse wash repeat, I dont think so. Lol

No, I didn't say nothing is lost.

Like any recycling there will be small losses, recycling 100 batteries will probably reclaim enough material to make 99 new ones, hence the material that is mined will be in use for decades if not 100's of years given the batteries will probably be in use for 15+ years at a time before they need to be recycled.

But some people try and make out that we will be sending these batteries full of valuable metals to landfill at the end of their life, I am simply pointing out that those metals will be recycled into new products.

So the "Carbon Accountants" out there that want to make to make out that mining battery materials removes all benefits of EV's and Renewable energy are simply wrong.

 

[sptrawler]

No, I didn't say nothing is lost.

Like any recycling there will be small losses, recycling 100 batteries will probably reclaim enough material to make 99 new ones, hence the material that is mined will be in use for decades if not 100's of years given the batteries will probably be in use for 15+ years at a time before they need to be recycled.

But some people try and make out that we will be sending these batteries full of valuable metals to landfill at the end of their life, I am simply pointing out that those metals will be recycled into new products.

So the "Carbon Accountants" out there that want to make to make out that mining battery materials removes all benefits of EV's and Renewable energy are simply wrong.

99% recovery rate, I would like to see the actual evidence of that, if it's true that is amazing IMO