Australian (ASX) Stock Market Forum

Electric cars?

Would you buy an electric car?

  • Already own one

    Votes: 10 5.1%

  • Yes - would definitely buy

    Votes: 43 21.9%

  • Yes - preferred over petrol car if price/power/convenience similar

    Votes: 78 39.8%

  • Maybe - preference for neither, only concerned with costs etc

    Votes: 37 18.9%

  • No - prefer petrol car even if electric car has same price, power and convenience

    Votes: 24 12.2%

  • No - would never buy one

    Votes: 14 7.1%
  • Total voters
    196
Jump to new
qldfrog said:
My mistake: the boosters you refer to were the small side ones, the huge enormous one was indeed H2 liquid and was the main tank
So hydrogen equal big tank
Click to expand...
Are you saying, that vehicles with fuel cells and hydrogen tanks, are going to need extremely large hydrogen tanks?

The exploded view of the Toyota Mirai, doesn't seem to indicate that the tanks are excessively large, but their are two of them. 120l +60l

file:///C:/Users/keith's%20desktop/Downloads/Toyota%20Mirai%20FCV_Posters_LR_tcm-11-564265.pdf
 
Last edited:
Yes basically either large or very strong
You mentioned 80 plus kilo tank, in carbon fiber..nothing less.. to store 5kg of liquid h2 at 10000psi
Yes it is possible but i can only imagine the cost
I just want people or readers here to understand what stands behind these new technologies, be it the actual co2 cost of charging a tesla coming back from work to this notion of let's do hydrogen as if we were producing oil
Not exactly
The lng gas train..the factory liquifying gas produce in Australia consume 6pc of their feed just to turn NG into LNG
I doubt it will be less for hydrogen, i actually expect more power required but have no data here..anyone?
Anyway, be aware, and do not boast green CO2 Credo if using an EV in Qld unless you are on green energy
Ideally do your own check and computation if these subjects matter to you,
Do not rely on irrelevant article based on different contexts or geography
 
qldfrog said:
Yes basically either large or very strong
You mentioned 80 plus kilo tank, in carbon fiber..nothing less.. to store 5kg of liquid h2 at 10000psi
Yes it is possible but i can only imagine the cost
I just want people or readers here to understand what stands behind these new technologies, be it the actual co2 cost of charging a tesla coming back from work to this notion of let's do hydrogen as if we were producing oil
Not exactly
The lng gas train..the factory liquifying gas produce in Australia consume 6pc of their feed just to turn NG into LNG
I doubt it will be less for hydrogen, i actually expect more power required but have no data here..anyone?
Anyway, be aware, and do not boost of green CO2 Credo if using an EV in Qld unless you are on green energy
Ideally do your own check and computation if these subjects matter to you
Click to expand...

I don't think the change will be driven by common sense, it certainly hasn't been so far, it will be driven by the media and oil companies etc trying to find new ways of keeping the money going around.
 
I possibly see a future where oil is cracked and h2 extracted, c belching from refineries and h2 compressed..more co2. Then exported or delivered to "green h2 vehicles" full of Greenpeace bumper stickers and costing twice as much as nowadays
A real possibility, similar to ev being charged Here or in China on coal,
I hope not but..
 
SirRumpole said:
Well, I believe you said margins were 2-3c per litre, so 10 is about 3 times that.
Click to expand...

they were when I worked in the industry in 2000, but as your article says 10cents was a “record high margin”, but either way 10cents on a $1.50 sale is still low especially because that is gross margin, meaning that 10cents has to pay all the costs of wages, rent, electricity etc etc.

so net profit margin might be less than 2cents once all the expenses are covered
 
qldfrog said:
I possibly see a future where oil is cracked and h2 extracted, c belching from refineries and h2 compressed..more co2. Then exported or delivered to "green h2 vehicles" full of Greenpeace bumper stickers and costing twice as much as nowadays
A real possibility, similar to ev being charged Here or in China on coal,
I hope not but..
Click to expand...

I see a future without any oil refiners at all.
 
qldfrog said:
The lng gas train..the factory liquifying gas produce in Australia consume 6pc of their feed just to turn NG into LNG
Click to expand...

The figures for one particular plant are efficiency of just under 90%, so a bit over 10% used in conversion.

That's for a real plant currently operating in Australia. It does not include energy used in extracting and transporting gas to the plant, that's just the efficiency once it gets there. :2twocents
 
SirRumpole said:
The plastics industry would need to be replaced.
Click to expand...
Ethane (a minor component of natural gas) is a widely used petrochemical feedstock not originating from crude oil as such. One product made with it by the way is....... gas pipes!

So plastic gas pipes are made using a minor component gas stripped out of the remaining gas which goes through the pipe. The wonders of chemistry. A lot of fertilzer is made from natural gas too by the way, it's a straightforward process.

By yeah, there's all manner of things made from oil from asphalt (roads) to lubricants to solvents to plastics and so on. Whatever device you're reading this on, it's made using products derived from oil that's a certainty.

Lots of things like that by the way. Eg there are coal by-products in lipstick is one thing they tell visitors to steelworks as they take them past the coke ovens which separate the volatiles from the carbon in the coal.

We also get solid coke (pet coke) from oil too by the way. An important use of that is for the anodes which conduct electricity into the pits in aluminium smelters - the anodes burn away so require constant replacement but since pet coke is a waste product of oil refining there's plenty of it so no problem.

So quite a lot of things would need to be sorted out there if oil use was to go to literally zero. That won't happen overnight.

Now, 'bout them rockets for the car that someone mentioned earlier. From where do I get these? :laugh:
 
Imho, oil industry will not be replaced by gas for plastic, why would you?
Oil is a miracle chemical liquid full of complex already existing long chains..why would you take gas..very simple elements, put energy in and so pollute to end up with what is already in oil in the first place.
synthetic oil was produced to bypass oil shortage in South Africa during apartheid years.. SA was under a blocus.so they used coal to petrol..aka liquid form..to run their cars
My old chemistry professor used to say it is a crime to burn oil for heating..it is a chemistry miracle juice, like feeding a furnace with Rembrandt and scultures
Hope it helps.
Like coking vs thermal coal, "petrol" be it from sand tar to light crude means a lot of different things and it is just brought down to a single term for simplicity and understanding of the masses.
By dumbing down language and science, we dumb down society and make it so easy for everyone to feel an expert... they just need to...
 
Smurf1976 said:
So quite a lot of things would need to be sorted out there if oil use was to go to literally zero. That won't happen overnight.
Click to expand...
Indeed, right now, the world is fed on petrol, literally xx tonnes of oil to get xx tonnes of wheat.
Without fertilisers, mankind starves. But overpopulation is not treated, as CC is the thread.ROL..EV will not sort that.
But as lucky rich Earthlings, we will enjoy them, and i have nothing against that.We can even add Greenpeace stickers on the bumpers and pretend to save mother earth
 
Value Collector said:
Oil is mainly hydrogen and carbon atoms in long chain molecules.

I’m not talking about short term future, but in the longterm we should be able to create these products by combining hydrogen from water and carbon taken out of the air.
Click to expand...
Agree but only when we will have exhausted the reserves, no need to at the moment or in the short /medium term future
 
qldfrog said:
Agree but only when we will have exhausted the reserves, no need to at the moment or in the short /medium term future
Click to expand...

Wait until it's too late to come up with alternatives or patent the synthetic oil processes and sit on them until all the profits have been squeezed out of oil ?
 
It is already technically doable,d and done as per Smurf post, just no need and both economically and environmentally irrelevant at the current stage in most cases
Definitively an area where capitalism work best
 
Value Collector said:
either exploited the reserves or hit some environmental limit on how many reserves we can safely exploit.
Click to expand...
True but would the alternative be better?
At the present, very far reached and we all agree
We adapt and innovate: the story of mankind, and where EV now take their place
 
Top