Australian (ASX) Stock Market Forum

Electric cars?

Would you buy an electric car?

  • Already own one

    Votes: 10 5.1%

  • Yes - would definitely buy

    Votes: 43 21.8%

  • Yes - preferred over petrol car if price/power/convenience similar

    Votes: 78 39.6%

  • Maybe - preference for neither, only concerned with costs etc

    Votes: 37 18.8%

  • No - prefer petrol car even if electric car has same price, power and convenience

    Votes: 25 12.7%

  • No - would never buy one

    Votes: 14 7.1%
  • Total voters
    197
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moXJO said:
Any red flags with this stock?
Rising metal prices.
Russia.
Evergrande
Subsidies ending soon?
Click to expand...
BYD is the world's biggest e-Bus builder, with sales on 4 continents.
BYD in 2022 will probably become the world's second biggest battery manufacturer as it is still building more plants. It makes mostly LFP batteries so metals prices will not be a problem.
In 2022 BYD will displace Volkswagen, and probably SAIC as well, to become the second biggest manufacture of all-electric cars.
I think all Chinese cars carry a red flag, so getting more traction in the US market might be harder than for elsewhere.
And Chinese car subsidies will make no difference as NEVs are being manufactured for about the same price on a comparable vehicle basis.
 
SirRumpole said:
I don't know how you equate freedom with being ripped off, but you are welcome to your opinion.

Maybe your freedom is the ability to rip off others ?
Click to expand...

Every time a new watchdog is created to monitor the previous watchdog we get another level of highly paid bureaucrats with not enough to do that then create work for themselves - we end up paying more taxes and lose more freedoms.

For some reason unknown to me, the previous generation scream about high taxes yet their the first to call for more watchdogs.
 
rederob said:
BYD is the world's biggest e-Bus builder, with sales on 4 continents.
BYD in 2022 will probably become the world's second biggest battery manufacturer as it is still building more plants. It makes mostly LFP batteries so metals prices will not be a problem.
In 2022 BYD will displace Volkswagen, and probably SAIC as well, to become the second biggest manufacture of all-electric cars.
I think all Chinese cars carry a red flag, so getting more traction in the US market might be harder than for elsewhere.
And Chinese car subsidies will make no difference as NEVs are being manufactured for about the same price on a comparable vehicle basis.
Click to expand...
Just saw Buffet had a stake. Bought in a while back.
 
JohnDe said:
Every time a new watchdog is created to monitor the previous watchdog we get another level of highly paid bureaucrats with not enough to do that then create work for themselves - we end up paying more taxes and lose more freedoms.

For some reason unknown to me, the previous generation scream about high taxes yet their the first to call for more watchdogs.
Click to expand...

I'm 65 so maybe not so 'previous'. :cool:

Anyway, self regulation is a joke and has been for some time. Look at the banking industry and construction industry , both have severe problems and someone needs to be overseeing them because they won't do it themselves.

Anyway, wrong thread for this, back to EV's I hope.
 
As usual with our national broadcaster, read the last paragraph first for a reality check or an inconvenient truth.

The battery pack accounts for roughly a quarter of the total EV vehicle cost and with battery prices expected to fall, this was likely to correspond with lower EV purchase prices in the future. Is that right ? I guess Musk must be lying ...

Tesla's Model S has a price tag of more than $150,000 and would not be available through the subsidy.
I can count the amount of Model S i have seen in Brisbane on my fingers
 
bk1 said:
As usual with our national broadcaster, read the last paragraph first for a reality check or an inconvenient truth.

The battery pack accounts for roughly a quarter of the total EV vehicle cost and with battery prices expected to fall, this was likely to correspond with lower EV purchase prices in the future. Is that right ? I guess Musk must be lying ...
Click to expand...
I don't know what the ABC said that's a problem? Can you elaborate please.
LFP batteries are getting cheaper and Lithium ternary batteries are getting more expensive.
Does that help?
 
bk1 said:
As usual with our national broadcaster, read the last paragraph first for a reality check or an inconvenient truth.

The battery pack accounts for roughly a quarter of the total EV vehicle cost and with battery prices expected to fall, this was likely to correspond with lower EV purchase prices in the future. Is that right ? I guess Musk must be lying ...

Tesla's Model S has a price tag of more than $150,000 and would not be available through the subsidy.
I can count the amount of Model S i have seen in Brisbane on my fingers
Click to expand...
The Model 3 is the their biggest seller in Australia, there is so many out their now, I see one almost every time I am out on the road.

I used to wave to other Tesla drivers when I got mine back in 2019, but there is to many out their now to bother hahaha.
 
And related to EVs/chips:
https://www.lemonde.fr/economie/art...recoller-au-peloton-mondial_6117722_3234.html
Intel investing 80 billions euros in EU..note that half is taxpayers' money...and 80 billions is subject to success etc..
BTW am I the only one looking at such figures and feeling that we are in Zimbabwe?
"How much for the croissant?
20 millions, but we have a deal for 100 millions you get bottomless coffee.. ?"
 
SirRumpole said:
There you go, what Aussie buyers have to put up with in the ever 'competitive' EV market.
Click to expand...
I agree 100%, but we can't compete making E.V's against countries that sell 40 million cars a year.
We would have to build plants to make electric motors, control systems, chips, etc, as with our car industry we couldn't do it once we stopped tariffs.
But having said that, we do get a much better product cheaper.
So it becomes a balance, what we have an advantage on we need to support.
That is what annoys me like Lynas building the rare earth processing plant in Malaysia, then having nothing but trouble with the Malaysian Government.
We have the rare earths, we have all the raw materials to make all styles of batteries, we should be making them, not sending the raw materials offshore for processing, unless the company that buys the raw materials builds a processing plant here.
WOW that sounds like the 1960's when the companies had to build blast furnaces, if they mined the raw materials, they had to build towns to support the mines, life goes around in a circle doesn't it.
We need to stop all the nonsense around finding reasons to make manufacturing difficult in Australia, we need to demand if value adding in Australia isn't viable, why not.
No one wants to ask the hard questions, if we don't ask the hard questions, we don't face the reality, why should we get 0.5% return on the value of the finished product, by sending the raw material offshore for processing?
I think everyone knows the answers, but no one is allowed to speak these days, for fear of retribution.
As Brendon Grylls found out. ;)
www.watoday.com.au

WA Opposition Leader exorcises Grylls’ ghost by burying iron tax policy

With the Nationals parachuted into Opposition, there was a chance the iron ore tax proposed by former leader Brendon Grylls in 2017 could make a come back. The party says it won’t.
www.watoday.com.au www.watoday.com.au
From the article:
Mr Grylls wanted to increase the 25 cent per tonne production rental fee on iron ore, which was set in agreements with the miners in the 1960s, to $5 a tonne, raising $7.2 billion over four years. The proposal, which was put forward at a time when WA was receiving a lower GST share and struggling with a debt-laden budget, was met with fierce opposition from the industry. The miners waged a multi-million dollar campaign against the tax, ultimately costing Mr Grylls his seat.
 
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SirRumpole said:
There you go, what Aussie buyers have to put up with in the ever 'competitive' EV market.
Click to expand...
Are you trying to say that we could compete with Tesla, and make a car equal to the model 3 for cheaper? I doubt it.

Also, if you read the article the base model went up $1000, that’s a smaller price increase than the average kitchen Reno in Australia in the last 12 months.

The headline figure of $5000 increase includes the increase caused by the luxury vehicle tax, which as I have said is basically a battery tax, and should probably kick in at a higher purchase price for Evs.
 
sptrawler said:
I agree 100%, but we can't compete making E.V's against countries that sell 40 million cars a year.
We would have to build plants to make electric motors, control systems, chips, etc, as with our car industry we couldn't do it once we stopped tariffs.
But having said that, we do get a much better product cheaper.
So it becomes a balance, what we have an advantage on we need to support.
That is what annoys me like Lynas building the rare earth processing plant in Malaysia, then having nothing but trouble with the Malaysian Government.
We have the rare earths, we have all the raw materials to make all styles of batteries, we should be making them, not sending the raw materials offshore for processing, unless the company that buys the raw materials builds a processing plant here.
WOW that sounds like the 1960's when the companies had to build blast furnaces, if they mined the raw materials, they had to build towns to support the mines, life goes around in a circle doesn't it.
We need to stop all the nonsense around finding reasons to make manufacturing difficult in Australia, we need to demand if value adding in Australia isn't viable, why not.
No one wants to ask the hard questions, if we don't ask the hard questions, we don't face the reality, why should we get 0.5% return on the value of the finished product, by sending the raw material offshore for processing?
I think everyone knows the answers, but no one is allowed to speak these days, for fear of retribution.
As Brendon Grylls found out. ;)
www.watoday.com.au

WA Opposition Leader exorcises Grylls’ ghost by burying iron tax policy

With the Nationals parachuted into Opposition, there was a chance the iron ore tax proposed by former leader Brendon Grylls in 2017 could make a come back. The party says it won’t.
www.watoday.com.au www.watoday.com.au
From the article:
Mr Grylls wanted to increase the 25 cent per tonne production rental fee on iron ore, which was set in agreements with the miners in the 1960s, to $5 a tonne, raising $7.2 billion over four years. The proposal, which was put forward at a time when WA was receiving a lower GST share and struggling with a debt-laden budget, was met with fierce opposition from the industry. The miners waged a multi-million dollar campaign against the tax, ultimately costing Mr Grylls his seat.
Click to expand...
You know we send fish caught in Victoria to Thailand to be canned, and then sent back to Victoria to be sold! It’s a weird world in global economics, but certain things are just they way it is, consumers are price driven.
 
Value Collector said:
Are you trying to say that we could compete with Tesla, and make a car equal to the model 3 for cheaper? I doubt it.
Click to expand...

A lot of the pricing of EV's (and other vehicles) is opportunistic, ie caused by low supply and high demand.

Increase supply, reduce the prices.

Economics 101.
 
Value Collector said:
You know we send fish caught in Victoria to Thailand to be canned, and then sent back to Victoria to be sold! It’s a weird world in global economics, but certain things are just they way it is, consumers are price driven.
Click to expand...
Do you know we used to have a lot of canneries here, before we removed tariffs, so we could send the fish to third world countries to get them canned cheaper.
Then we payed the workers here who lost their jobs the dole, so they could buy the fish cheaper and the multinational companies got greater profits.
What a great win, great efficiency send the product 2000klm to be canned, increase your taxes, to pay the ones you sacked to be able to buy the $hit they used to produce, magic sustainable model. Lol
In reality China is proving how pizz poor that model is and the fat ar$ed lazy sods that cheer it on, will one day rue their smugness IMO.
Even Jack Ma who is richer than anyone in Australia, has no influence, in some regimes.
 
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sptrawler said:
Do you know we used to have a lot of canneries here, before we removed tariffs, so we could send the fish to third world countries to get them canned cheaper.
Then we payed the workers here who lost their jobs the dole, so they could buy the fish cheaper and the multinational companies got greater profits.
What a great win, great efficiency send the product 2000klm to be canned, increase your taxes, to pay the ones you sacked to be able to buy the $hit they used to produce, magic sustainable model. Lol
In reality China is proving how pizz poor that model is and the fat ar$ed lazy sods that cheer it on, will one day rue their smugness IMO.
Even Jack Ma who is richer than anyone in Australia, has no influence, in some regimes.
Click to expand...
Unemployment rate is lower now than it was then, and we have more employed in total because the participation rates of females has increased dramatically.

Globalisation has caused some jobs to be moved offshore, but a whole lot of jobs have also been created.
 
SirRumpole said:
A lot of the pricing of EV's (and other vehicles) is opportunistic, ie caused by low supply and high demand.

Increase supply, reduce the prices.

Economics 101.
Click to expand...
Do you think we could produce the same quality of vehicle here while also selling it for a lower pride and still make money, given the fact that we would have to be producing lower volumes?
 
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