Australian (ASX) Stock Market Forum

Electric cars?

Would you buy an electric car?

  • Already own one

    Votes: 10 5.1%

  • Yes - would definitely buy

    Votes: 43 21.8%

  • Yes - preferred over petrol car if price/power/convenience similar

    Votes: 78 39.6%

  • Maybe - preference for neither, only concerned with costs etc

    Votes: 37 18.8%

  • No - prefer petrol car even if electric car has same price, power and convenience

    Votes: 25 12.7%

  • No - would never buy one

    Votes: 14 7.1%
  • Total voters
    197
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Value Collector said:
Why does it have to be government?

I am sure Elon and Warren have weighed up the benefits and risks of China versus Australia, as you said there is political risks in China, which means if they chose to go there anyway, there must be some massive economic and industrial benefits to outweigh the risk.
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Again you are arguing purely on an economic basis, and in that respect you are right, the economics of China outweighs the economics of Australia, but you fail again to take into account sovereign risk , which is much higher now that there is a Chinese leader prepared to throw his weight around economically and politically.

Of course you will probably have retired to the Bahamas in the meantime, but there are still people concerned with Australia's future.
 
SirRumpole said:
Again you are arguing purely on an economic basis, and in that respect you are right, the economics of China outweighs the economics of Australia, but you fail again to take into account sovereign risk , which is much higher now that there is a Chinese leader prepared to throw his weight around economically and politically.

Of course you will probably have retired to the Bahamas in the meantime, but there are still people concerned with Australia's future.
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I think the risk is over stated
 
SirRumpole said:
I hope you are right, but as the wise men say, hope for the best but prepare for the worst.
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I think with cars we have multiple import options, eg many nations in Asia, America and Europe I don’t think we have to worry to much about losing an one of those supply lines, also its not like fuel, eg if imports of cars new cars totally stopped for a year we would be fine.
 
rederob said:
I guess a lot depends on where you go for what you want to know about.
Lots post from Twitter at ASF without any comments attached, lots post from pseudoscience rather than peer reviewed material, lots post their preferred slant from media that offers positive reinforcement, and lots post without any data or supporting information to give a rationale to their comments.

Specifically on the topic of EVs our federal government is nothing short of prehistoric by maintaining large grants and subsidies relating to the FF sector and comparatively little to foster NEVs. As @Smurf1976 often points out, their policy is deliberate in not having one at all.

As you and I discovered, States/Territories are offering a bit here and nothing there to incentivise or otherwise EV take-up. I could easily have changed my address to my brother in law's just over an hour's drive away in NSW and got $5300 off my EV price, and then come back home with a very mucher cheaper car than using my Qld address. Such market distortions are undesirable and should have been addressed at National Cabinet. Unfortunately anything to do with energy is too hard for the feds to deal with so we keep getting a clusterfart of initiatives that vary by each Premier's predelictions. My personal view is that NSW is further ahead than all the other States in terms of driving change, and are only dragged back with lesser environmental policies.
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A lot of your post is true, however the States are responsible for the registering of the vehicles and the stamp duty, as you know in W.A the stamp duty is ridiculous. To make matters worse some States or putting a mileage road tax on E.V's, to compensate for loss of fuel excise, when they don't even have a fuel excise it is a Federal tax they get a small percentage of the GST on fuel.
Federally applying a rebate on E.V's just makes no sense to me, the rebate has to be funded by someone, money from consolidated revenue, still means a tax, one way or another. Like I've already said, the Federal Government subsidising E.V infrastructure, so that everywhere in Australia gets adequate E.V charging facilities I can understand, if poor people buy second hand E.V's there will requirement for them to charge it more often due to a degraded battery and most wont be living in Sydney or Melbourne where charging infrastructure is already far greater than most places. Just google E.V charge point map and look at the deployment.
Giving people a hand out to buy a $50k car is just a wealth transfer IMO.
Everyone has a different take on it and most have their hand out at every opportunity, whether they need help or not.
 
Value Collector said:
How are you going to have a car industry if you get rid of the financing industry? Almost all cars are financed or leased, even in the used car market.

Not to mention building the factory requires financing for all the construction companies and trades, the financial industry is actually the bedrock of the economy, even though most people wouldn’t want to admit it.
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Lighten up a bit VC. As SirRumpole points out, the financial sector are becoming a parasite on the economy without producing anything tangible.

Even your man Elon Musk agrees - “Goods & services are the real economy, any form of money is simply the accounting thereof.”
 
sptrawler said:
A lot of your post is true, however the States are responsible for the registering of the vehicles and the stamp duty, as you know in W.A the stamp duty is ridiculous. To make matters worse some States or putting a mileage road tax on E.V's, to compensate for loss of fuel excise, when they don't even have a fuel excise it is a Federal tax they get a small percentage of the GST on fuel.
Federally applying a rebate on E.V's just makes no sense to me, the rebate has to be funded by someone, money from consolidated revenue, still means a tax, one way or another. Like I've already said, the Federal Government subsidising E.V infrastructure, so that everywhere in Australia gets adequate E.V charging facilities I can understand, if poor people buy second hand E.V's there will requirement for them to charge it more often due to a degraded battery and most wont be living in Sydney or Melbourne where charging infrastructure is already far greater than most places. Just google E.V charge point map and look at the deployment.
Giving people a hand out to buy a $50k car is just a wealth transfer IMO.
Everyone has a different take on it and most have their hand out at every opportunity, whether they need help or not.
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I previously posted on what can be done to ensure the wealthy are locked out of any or most incentives for EVs.

As you say, if a financial rebate or tax offset is going to be made by a government to NEV purchasers it will erode its tax base. So whenever a State/Territory government does that, then it needs to make up for it somewhere else. And we know your "makes no sense" argument is already in play on the east coast where it makes even less sense because the States/Territories are all doing something very different.

The beauty of a federal rebate is that it would be consistent across the nation, and remove present distortions. Moreover, we could rob some of undeserving Peter's present FF rebates - which are billions annually - and hand them over to magnanimous Paul to redistribute to NEV owners.

A slightly less effective option in tax revenue terms would involve a federal rebate for NEVs, where all luxury car taxes get transferred into a pool that was disbursed to purchasers of NEVs under $50k. That transfer at least serves a purpose that's vehicle related, unlike current road taxes.

There are so many clever things that could be done to incentivise NEV ownership for low income earners, but we don't even have a national policy to begin with. The other thing about incentivisation is that it decreases over time and then disappears, so could, for example, cease from 2026 onwards. Such policy arrangements provide an additional FOMO incentivisation.

The battery degradation problem will only exist for lithium ternary batteries as LFP batteries should continue to cycle with minimal loss well beyond the average road lifetime of vehicles.
 
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Macquack said:
Lighten up a bit VC. As SirRumpole points out, the financial sector are becoming a parasite on the economy without producing anything tangible.

Even your man Elon Musk agrees - “Goods & services are the real economy, any form of money is simply the accounting thereof.”
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Firstly, what makes you think my comments aren’t light? Just because I don’t insert an emoji don’t assume I am sitting here typing with a frown.

As I said, the real economy wouldn’t function without finance, it’s a very real part of the economy, it’s a misconception that the finance industry isn’t real.

Even the concept of writing itself was developed for the purpose of accounting and finance, nothing moves in the real economy without the financial industry.

There is actually a lot of charities that have learned that some of the best aid they can supply to developing nations is “Micro loans” to help kick start the real economy in these places.

Check out KIVA it’s a great charitable foundation, that focuses on making micro loans in developing countries.

https://www.kiva.org/
 
JohnDe said:
It’s possible to buy using the Commsec International account and Stake under BYDDY

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Thanks John.
I am subscribed to the Electric Viking and watch what he posts every day (though not always his full video content).
I am with Commsec, but never wanted to open an international account. Maybe that will change!
sptrawler said:
Prices are starting to rise, in expectation of rising battery costs.

thedriven.io

Tesla bumps up Model 3 price in Australia as supplies dwindle

US electric vehicle giant raises price of the entry level Model 3 in the Australian market adding a $1,000 premium to the starting price for the enormously popular EV.
thedriven.io thedriven.io
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Not just the price, but waiting times in Australia are continuing to blow out for Tesla's.
Am really glad I put my deposit down on the BYD to lock in its price and delivery date.
 
Value Collector said:
As I said, the real economy wouldn’t function without finance, it’s a very real part of the economy, it’s a misconception that the finance industry isn’t real.
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Of course the finance industry is real, but there are various elements of it, and some disturbing features of how it works were exposed in the Royal Commission the government didn't want to have.
 
SirRumpole said:
Absolutely, that's why we need a Federal ICAC with the powers to investigate any industry.
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How much more bureaucracy & red tape do we need?


www.ag.gov.au

Anti-corruption

This department is playing an active role in combating corruption through developing domestic policy on anti-corruption and engagement in a range of international anti-corruption forums.
www.ag.gov.au www.ag.gov.au
 
JohnDe said:
How much more bureaucracy & red tape do we need?


www.ag.gov.au

Anti-corruption

This department is playing an active role in combating corruption through developing domestic policy on anti-corruption and engagement in a range of international anti-corruption forums.
www.ag.gov.au www.ag.gov.au
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Enough to ensure that politicians and industry are kept honest.

It's obviously not enough at the moment.
 
SirRumpole said:
Enough to ensure that politicians and industry are kept honest.

It's obviously not enough at the moment.
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Maybe in your world it’s full of corruption and too much freedom.

Over in mine I’d prefer not to lose anymore of our freedom but I am quite comfortable knowing that we have a fair and equitable system with enough checks and balances.
 
rederob said:
Thanks John.
I am subscribed to the Electric Viking and watch what he posts every day (though not always his full video content).
I am with Commsec, but never wanted to open an international account. Maybe that will change!

Not just the price, but waiting times in Australia are continuing to blow out for Tesla's.
Am really glad I put my deposit down on the BYD to lock in its price and delivery date.
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Any red flags with this stock?
Rising metal prices.
Russia.
Evergrande
Subsidies ending soon?
 
JohnDe said:
Maybe in your world it’s full of corruption and too much freedom.

Over in mine I’d prefer not to lose anymore of our freedom but I am quite comfortable knowing that we have a fair and equitable system with enough checks and balances.
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I don't know how you equate freedom with being ripped off, but you are welcome to your opinion.

Maybe your freedom is the ability to rip off others ?
 
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