Electric cars?

[Value Collector]

Well we wouldn't b e subsidising Elon's space jaunts for a start.

What does that mean?

Space Ex has nothing to do with Tesla anyway, and if you haven’t noticed there is no Australian subsidy available for Teslas to begin with.

 

[SirRumpole]

A couple of interesting stories

Musk says Tesla, SpaceX face 'significant' inflationary pressure

Tesla Inc Chief Executive Officer Elon Musk said the U.S. electric carmaker and his rocket company SpaceX are facing significant inflationary pressure in raw materials and logistics.

www.reuters.com

Global nickel reserves by country 2023 | Statista

Indonesia and Australia had the largest nickel reserves in the world as of 2023, which amounted to a combined 79 million metric tons of the base metal.

www.statista.com

Australia - nickel - batteries ?

Why don't we value add this stuff instead of just taking the export raw material and buy back the finished product option ?

Don't tell me it's due to economics, once the raw product is exported we have no say in where it goes.

This is a strategic supply, we should be exploiting it to the max.

 

[Value Collector]

A couple of interesting stories

Musk says Tesla, SpaceX face 'significant' inflationary pressure

Tesla Inc Chief Executive Officer Elon Musk said the U.S. electric carmaker and his rocket company SpaceX are facing significant inflationary pressure in raw materials and logistics.

www.reuters.com

Global nickel reserves by country 2023 | Statista

Indonesia and Australia had the largest nickel reserves in the world as of 2023, which amounted to a combined 79 million metric tons of the base metal.

www.statista.com

Australia - nickel - batteries ?

Why don't we value add this stuff instead of just taking the export raw material and buy back the finished product option ?

Don't tell me it's due to economics, once the raw product is exported we have no say in where it goes.

This is a strategic supply, we should be exploiting it to the max.

I don’t know, maybe talk to Panasonic and the other battery manufacturers, They own battery facilities all over the world, I am they don’t have anything against Australia, and if the economics did line up they would build a factory here.

But there is more to it than just raw materials.

 

[SirRumpole]

I don’t know, maybe talk to Panasonic and the other battery manufacturers, They own battery facilities all over the world, I am they don’t have anything against Australia, and if the economics did line up they would build a factory here.

But there is more to it than just raw materials.

Yes that's right, rely on foreigners to do stuff for us.

That's what made this country 'un-great' .

 

[Value Collector]

Yes that's right, rely on foreigners to do stuff for us.

That's what made this country 'un-great' .

North Korea tries to do everything themselves, how is that working for them? That’s what happens when a country of 25 Million tries to go it alone.

 

[SirRumpole]

North Korea tries to do everything themselves, how is that working for them? That’s what happens when a country of 25 Million tries to go it alone.

North Korea is a failed state lead by a dill.

It is totally isolationist , that is stupid.

There are capabilities we don't have that we should have, using an extreme example of a dictatorship doesn't advance your argument.

 

[sptrawler]

The push to EV's is increasing.

‘It’s no longer a rich man’s car’: Where electric car ownership is surging in Sydney

Electric cars are surging across NSW with more now registered around Parramatta than anywhere else in the state as prices fall and access to charging stations increases.

www.smh.com.au

Electric cars are surging across NSW, with more now registered in Canterbury-Bankstown and around Parramatta than anywhere else in the state as their prices fall and access to charging stations increases.
NSW registered electric vehicles, hybrid petrol-electric cars and those using “other fuel” including hydrogen more than doubled from 37,238 to 78,644 in the two years to September 2021.

 

[Value Collector]

North Korea is a failed state lead by a dill.

It is totally isolationist , that is stupid.

There are capabilities we don't have that we should have, using an extreme position of a dictatorship doesn't advance your argument.

My argument is just that I don’t believe a population of 25,000,000 can actually physically supply the labour force to supply itself with all the doodads we need to live a modern life style, we need to be offshoring parts of the economy.

We already have low unemployment and labour shortages, that’s a clear sign that we are already at or close to our limit for what we can do for ourselves.

I don’t believe there is any benefit to moving labour and capital away from the areas we have natural advantages to the areas that require subsidies and that might struggle.

If we had mass unemployment, it would make sense though.

 

[SirRumpole]

The push to EV's is increasing.

‘It’s no longer a rich man’s car’: Where electric car ownership is surging in Sydney

Electric cars are surging across NSW with more now registered around Parramatta than anywhere else in the state as prices fall and access to charging stations increases.

www.smh.com.au

Electric cars are surging across NSW, with more now registered in Canterbury-Bankstown and around Parramatta than anywhere else in the state as their prices fall and access to charging stations increases.
NSW registered electric vehicles, hybrid petrol-electric cars and those using “other fuel” including hydrogen more than doubled from 37,238 to 78,644 in the two years to September 2021.

Prices fall ? The Tesla Model 3 just went up by $5,000.

 

[rederob]

Not only was this the worst write up of Qld's $3000 NEV subsidy, it's got obvious mistakes and comparisons. This excerpt from the article has to be as bad as so called journalism can get:

"Overseas, the cheapest electric car is sold in Macau for $56,000, then in China for $58,000, and about the same in Romania."​

Really???

​

Contrast the above with this, which has almost 30 links to further reading of relevance, including other State /Territory incentives:

The CarExpert website has some of the best articles on EV issues in Australia, including our failure to have in place a national EV policy.

Back to incentives for a moment. It does look like some States have a rebate cap that gives Teslas an in, while Queensland clearly decided to lock out Teslas and cap at a lower price rung. None of the caps are defensible, and none incentivise car manufacturers to bring cheaper models here to be affordable to the average car buyer. In that regard Canstar's latest survey suggests the average sedan price was $44,557 in 2021, so rounding that up to $50k would make sense as most cars in the survey were ICEVs which are typically cheaper here on a comparative basis.

Were I writing the Premier's notes on the QLD incentive I would have said it was principally to cover on-road and insurance costs as the car industry nearly always quotes "drive away", yet for EVs - which are often purchased on line - those costs are seldom included.

(Edit - I assumed base level Teslas came in under the $68k cap, but with price rises in the wind, is that no longer the case?)

 

[SirRumpole]

My argument is just that I don’t believe a population of 25,000,000 can actually physically supply the labour force to supply itself with all the doodads we need to live a modern life style, we need to be offshoring parts of the economy.

We already have low unemployment and labour shortages, that’s a clear sign that we are already at or close to our limit for what we can do for ourselves.

I don’t believe there is any benefit to moving labour and capital away from the areas we have natural advantages to the areas that require subsidies and that might struggle.

If we had mass unemployment, it would make sense though.

Low unemployment and labour shortages are the result of the borders being closed for two years.;

We had 3 companies manufacturing vehicles in this country before the tariffs came down, we have the capability to do it.

But I guess for some, we are still better off being a mine, a farm and a beach.

 

[Value Collector]

Low unemployment and labour shortages are the result of the borders being closed for two years.;

We had 3 companies manufacturing vehicles in this country before the tariffs came down, we have the capability to do it.

But I guess for some, we are still better off being a mine, a farm and a beach.

You do understand the at tariffs are taxes on the Australian consumers right?

Eg, foreign company can produce a car for $50k that would cost $55k to produce in Australia, so the government adds a $10k tax to the foreign one to make the Australian one artificially cheaper, but it’s only cheaper because of extra taxes.

So the end result is that Australian consumers are forced to pay more for cars, because of tax.

 

[JohnDe]

Prices fall ? The Tesla Model 3 just went up by $5,000.

I hope that you realise that you don't have to buy an EV or even a Tesla.

There are plenty of alternative vehicles available to purchase, new and second hand, petrol, diesel hybrid, electric and a dwindling number of LPG.

When choosing your car make sure to assess the overall running cost of the life of the vehicle, and if you change your cars often compare the resale value.

Diesel has the advantage of great mileage and towing capacity, but maintenance cost can be slightly higher on some models and extremely higher on others, compared to other energy types. One big disadvantage to diesel is that it is being phased out as a personal transport option in most European countries and has never been a big seller in Japan and the US.

LPG is a fuel that no vehicle manufacturer uses anymore, so if buying second hand take into account that the fuel sales will be dropping and prices going up, also that resale will be gutted.

Petrol is the main fuel now, it will be available for decades to come. Though we are at the mercy of world oil prices and disasters like disease, floods and war. Maintenance cost will be dropping on new models as they compete against EVs minimal service requirements, oil changes and tune ups will be extended with premium parts. Re-sale is a difficult one to guess, as new car production come back on line there may be a glut of cars which could bring the prices down. And then there is the time when manufactures phase out petrol for electric, this could create a price hike for a short time.

Enjoy your choices.

 

[SirRumpole]

You do understand the at tariffs are taxes on the Australian consumers right?

Eg, foreign company can produce a car for $50k that would cost $55k to produce in Australia, so the government adds a $10k tax to the foreign one to make the Australian one artificially cheaper, but it’s only cheaper because of extra taxes.

So the end result is that Australian consumers are forced to pay more for cars, because of tax.

A bit old, but it shows that when we did have manufacturers here, the cost of assistance to the car industry were modest compared to other countries.

FactCheck: do other countries subsidise their car industry more than we do?

“By international standards our support [of the automotive industry] is modest, so we have to work hard to attract the new investment.” – Industry minister Senator Kim Carr, Lateline, 22 July. The idea…

theconversation.com

 

[JohnDe]

A bit old, but it shows that when we did have manufacturers here, the cost of assistance to the car industry were modest compared to other countries.

FactCheck: do other countries subsidise their car industry more than we do?

“By international standards our support [of the automotive industry] is modest, so we have to work hard to attract the new investment.” – Industry minister Senator Kim Carr, Lateline, 22 July. The idea…

theconversation.com

Remember the Holden Starfire engine? Now that was a fantastic example of engineering forced upon us because there was no competition. And the 3 speed automatic that our home grown cars had as standard equipment while all the imports had an overdrive. Those were the days

 

[SirRumpole]

I hope that you realise that you don't have to buy an EV or even a Tesla.

There are plenty of alternative vehicles available to purchase, new and second hand, petrol, diesel hybrid, electric and a dwindling number of LPG.

When choosing your car make sure to assess the overall running cost of the life of the vehicle, and if you change your cars often compare the resale value.

Diesel has the advantage of great mileage and towing capacity, but maintenance cost can be slightly higher on some models and extremely higher on others, compared to other energy types. One big disadvantage to diesel is that it is being phased out as a personal transport option in most European countries and has never been a big seller in Japan and the US.

LPG is a fuel that no vehicle manufacturer uses anymore, so if buying second hand take into account that the fuel sales will be dropping and prices going up, also that resale will be gutted.

Petrol is the main fuel now, it will be available for decades to come. Though we are at the mercy of world oil prices and disasters like disease, floods and war. Maintenance cost will be dropping on new models as they compete against EVs minimal service requirements, oil changes and tune ups will be extended with premium parts. Re-sale is a difficult one to guess, as new car production come back on line there may be a glut of cars which could bring the prices down. And then there is the time when manufactures phase out petrol for electric, this could create a price hike for a short time.

Enjoy your choices.

Thank you for that precis. As a diesel driver I will stick to that until there is more support for EV's in regional areas.

 

[rederob]

This video shows where niche markets exist for classic cars, as previously discussed, and how the learning process can then be applied to other small volume but purpose built larger vehicles:


A local version is here:

 

[SirRumpole]

Remember the Holden Starfire engine? Now that was a fantastic example of engineering forced upon us because there was no competition. And the 3 speed automatic that our home grown cars had as standard equipment while all the imports had an overdrive. Those were the days

No I have no recollection of the Holden Starfire engine. When did that appear, 1940's ?

 

[sptrawler]

The starfire was a 173 holden 6 with two cylinders chopped off, came out in the Sunbird Torana and VC Commodore, really was an underpowered, fuel hungry POS. Not very popular in its day. It was introduced to compete with the imported Japanese 4 cylinders, but it didn't.

 

[sptrawler]

Thank you for that precis. As a diesel driver I will stick to that until there is more support for EV's in regional areas.

This is a huge problem, as usual everyone that lives in highly populated areas get terrific infrastructure, because there is enough usage to pay its way, therefore they just want a subsidy to buy the car.
Meanwhile those who live remotely have to bear the cost of the subsidy, yet get very little to no benefit from it.

It is the same with mobile phone services and internet, those in major populated areas want taxpayers to put in fibre to the house for bling speed, those taxpayers in remote areas just want a service. Both groups pay taxes, only one group is getting value for their taxes paid.
Australia has become a nation of very self centred, selfish people IMO.

Mobile black spots and poor internet holding back regions, report warns

The report from Infrastructure Australia shows poor mobile and broadband coverage persists across regional Victoria and the pandemic has further exposed the shortfalls.

www.theage.com.au

Mobile black spots and poor internet coverage are plaguing regional Victoria and hampering economic development as more people attempt to work from home and conduct business online.

The latest report from Infrastructure Australia shows poor mobile and broadband coverage persists across the regions and the pandemic has further exposed the shortfalls.

My Son and his family applied for the NBN to supply a service in December, to their rural block, they have been paying for it, but are still yet to receive it. 200 klm south of Perth and can't get a tech to go there.