Australian (ASX) Stock Market Forum

Electric cars?

Would you buy an electric car?

  • Already own one

    Votes: 10 5.1%

  • Yes - would definitely buy

    Votes: 43 21.8%

  • Yes - preferred over petrol car if price/power/convenience similar

    Votes: 78 39.6%

  • Maybe - preference for neither, only concerned with costs etc

    Votes: 37 18.8%

  • No - prefer petrol car even if electric car has same price, power and convenience

    Votes: 25 12.7%

  • No - would never buy one

    Votes: 14 7.1%
  • Total voters
    197
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JohnDe said:
qldfrog, my apologies to you if you take offense to me answering your comments with facts.

However, I do find it poor form that you think it is ok to stop me seeing your comments while you continue to remark about my comments. Giving me no right of reply.

A freind has forwarded me your present comments, but I will make no further response unless you allow me to see your comments.

qldfrog -
"That's what i call woke:
Reading what you want.and running with your narrative.
where did you read new?
cause i did not write it anywhere
I later gave you 36k as current price..new but you run with that wrong idea..typical, why argue with facts when you are rightful..and as you believe you are , obviously, right no stop...just surprise you are not younger
So , for facts, we
bought a 2y old mx5 below 30k, probably 5y ago? .latest shape, etc.
New? from 36k..google this morning.
Lowest EV 40k+ xiththe nice MGB
Drive the MGB or the mx5 roof off in noosa hinterland and compare...
Anyway, no point, noted the offended woke /wog reference,but targetting a migrant, who was installing solar pv 20y ago and created a 400 acres nature refuge from scratch, really?"

qldfrog -
"I am here, but see no point raising facts so just out.
I could discuss/argue with a kid/younger person, but someone in his 50es raising the wog and green card and all the usual ABC style **** with me against twisted arguments i did not even write.no point;
Life is too short
Still follow the technical advances/prices post etc;
I am not a believer in lithium batteries due to metal scarity, not trusting h2 directly as too leaky but who knows..h2 fuel cells,
or better ammonia (fuel cells or ICE) with green hydrogen..perfect..current batteries are a transition, technically not suited to mass production on the world stage and definitively not sorting the environment issues.
Great for some gold chain wearing Ferrari riders converting to weed smoking baggy yogis driving tesla , the woke crews and as well convertion of old models for the fun...
Thinking myself about converting an old quad or farm buggy when I have time.
.ok I push a bit (a lot) but I am a wog, so have to go the extra mile :)
Real ecology is not woke, but it requires effort and has no bragging rights.sorry..
And do far EV is not green.
Bring green h2 and h2 fuel cells, that could do it..and really looking forward genuinely for that
But not yet
Over from me.have a nice week end"

View attachment 133844
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He didn't say a new mx5 did he?
I'm seeing 2016 models for $30k range
He also said 5 years ago on a 2 year older model.
 
Value Collector said:
That’s what my dad used to say in the 80’s about those new flashy cars that burned unleaded, and had air conditioning, electric windows and FM radios,… but now that’s what everyone drives, Dad used even tell me that these unleaded cars wouldn’t last because their fuel didn’t lubricate the engine as well as the leases fuels, that turned out to be false, and who would really want to go back to leaded fuels now? Not me, petrol will be looked at the same way in 15 years.

Ev’s will filter down into the low priced catergory of the used car market too and people on lower incomes will be able to buy them, even if the have to spend an extra $1000 they will quickly save that in fuel costs and maintenance, low income earners will be better off with second hand ev than a second hand petrol car.
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My thoughts are that batteries will have to come down to virtually nothing for it to even come close. The batteries are bloody expensive. But agree that change will happen. I'm not denying it. Just that many will suffer the transition.
 
Here's my crystal ball strategy:
Labor wins the election.
Rivian introduced to Australia 2023.
Labor puts out some kind of subsidies for EVs.
Moxjo buys 3 Evs.

Or something like that. I think Labor will take this election possible coalition with the greens. Bound to be something.
 
sptrawler said:
I'm not a big fan of using Norway as an example as to what others can achieve with EV,s, Norway has as specific topography and geographical location, that enables it to be 100% renewables.
Add to that the population and small road and grid network and really it is a bit of a cherry pick, to say other countries are failing for not achieving similar outcomes, it is much better if apples are compared with apples.
One thing Australia could do to take a faster environmental route, would be to introduce tax levels similar to other countries, like for example Norway's 25% gst.
Click to expand...
About that: one of the reason Norway can afford EVs:
Tesla M3 range plus cost there: 400 000kr;
but average gross earnings in Norway is 48,750 NOK per month or 585,000 NOK per year.
3rd most expensive place on earth to live..

in Australia cheapest M3 $59.900 and based on ATO: 8 June 2021 — The average salary in Australia is now just over $60,000
so an average worker in australia can get nearly exactly one M3 a year..but still has to pay tax ..these are gross figures
whereas the average Norway worker can get one and a half M3;
I am sure Tesla would be far more popular if we could buy one new M3 here for 40k AUD...
not yet there
 
JohnDe said:
we all need a target to aim for, Norway is the current leader. We don’t have to copy them, and we shouldn’t, but we can take the best examples that fit our country.

Just read an interesting article, change is happening fast, faster than most can accept or understood, including me.


ELECTRIC VEHICLES SPECIAL REPORT

“I am charging into this brave new EV world and you should too​


If you’d told me 20 years ago that I would be driving a car that could run on pure sunlight alone I would have laughed in your maniacal direction and asked you whether this vehicle would also fly and have some kind of magical screen on board that could give me access to All the Music in the World at the swipe of my finger, or via my voice command.”

NoCookies | The Australian

www.theaustralian.com.au www.theaustralian.com.au
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i disagree , we could have been driving compact vehicles using lead acid batteries for the last 50 years , in fact in the '80s i worked in two different companies that used electric forklifts .. pallet transporters as well quite effectively

we had plenty of time to improve that technology and DIDN'T

those EVs had limitations sure , but so did the gas and petrol forklifts ( in certain areas )

BTW we have had solar vehicle endurance races for years too , but the research was left on the drawing board ( and 'race-track' ) rather than adapted and improved

what about solar + battery paint to the interior surface of the roof and boot to run the non-essential electronics on you EV

we could have done and still CAN do much better

we had working EVs since the 1900's this is NOT new just previously abandoned
 
moXJO said:
Here's my crystal ball strategy:
Labor wins the election.
Rivian introduced to Australia 2023.
Labor puts out some kind of subsidies for EVs.
Moxjo buys 3 Evs.

Or something like that. I think Labor will take this election possible coalition with the greens. Bound to be something.
Click to expand...
GEE and i am called a doom merchant do you do gigs at Halloween ??
 
sptrawler said:
I'm not a big fan of using Norway as an example as to what others can achieve with EV,s, Norway has as specific topography and geographical location, that enables it to be 100% renewables.
Add to that the population and small road and grid network and really it is a bit of a cherry pick, to say other countries are failing for not achieving similar outcomes, it is much better if apples are compared with apples.
One thing Australia could do to take a faster environmental route, would be to introduce tax levels similar to other countries, like for example Norway's 25% gst.
Click to expand...
I think you need to actually understand what Norway did to incentivise ZEVs as your other points are barely relevant.
For example, Norway's topography certainly does not lend itself to EVs and more than it does to ICE vehicles, and BEVs do not respond well to very cold climates, so its location is not beneficial.
And if you want to use an argument based on country size and population you could choose Denmark, Belgium Switzerland and another 20 countries I could name.
Here's what any government could borrow from:
1638793411292.png
The key to Norway's success beyond the above was the use of progressive taxation arrangements that penalised emissions as distinct from hiking up taxes.
 
moXJO said:
My thoughts are that batteries will have to come down to virtually nothing for it to even come close. The batteries are bloody expensive. But agree that change will happen. I'm not denying it. Just that many will suffer the transition.
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it is also possible battery technology options will change

would you buy an EV with a 300km range , but you drive less than 100 km a week ( almost every week of the year )

i see some makers making a limited range ( much cheaper ) model for the masses , sure they might not be popular outside the city , but guess where a lot of pollution is ( hint it isn't on the Atherton Tableland )
 
moXJO said:
My thoughts are that batteries will have to come down to virtually nothing for it to even come close. The batteries are bloody expensive. But agree that change will happen. I'm not denying it. Just that many will suffer the transition.
Click to expand...
That’s a bit like people that say installing solar panels are expensive because they see an upfront cost of $6000, but they don’t do the math of how much $500 every 3 months on their regular bill adds up to after 10 years.

a battery might cost about $15,000 but over the life of the car you can have $50,000 in fuel savings, and vastly reduced maintenance costs.

I think people that choose options that are cheaper upfront are the ones that suffer, not those that install solar for example.
 
rederob said:
I think you need to actually understand what Norway did to incentivise ZEVs as your other points are barely relevant.
For example, Norway's topography certainly does not lend itself to EVs and more than it does to ICE vehicles, and BEVs do not respond well to very cold climates, so its location is not beneficial.
And if you want to use an argument based on country size and population you could choose Denmark, Belgium Switzerland and another 20 countries I could name.
Here's what any government could borrow from:
View attachment 133869
The key to Norway's success beyond the above was the use of progressive taxation arrangements that penalised emissions as distinct from hiking up taxes.
Click to expand...
that is all nice for Norway with that nice oil income , but Australia is heavily addicted to all that tax revenue that would be shaved and folks like TCL would have a fit if 20% of their toll income vanished for say 5 years

we might need a complete new government ( including bureaucrats ) before we could get close to adopting the best Norwegian ideas
 
divs4ever said:
i disagree , we could have been driving compact vehicles using lead acid batteries for the last 50 years , in fact in the '80s i worked in two different companies that used electric forklifts .. pallet transporters as well quite effectively

we had plenty of time to improve that technology and DIDN'T

those EVs had limitations sure , but so did the gas and petrol forklifts ( in certain areas )

BTW we have had solar vehicle endurance races for years too , but the research was left on the drawing board ( and 'race-track' ) rather than adapted and improved

what about solar + battery paint to the interior surface of the roof and boot to run the non-essential electronics on you EV

we could have done and still CAN do much better

we had working EVs since the 1900's this is NOT new just previously abandoned
Click to expand...
There isn’t enough surface area on a car to capture a usable amount of solar to make it worthwhile, especially because people prefer to park their car in the shade.

you are better off putting solar panels on the roof of your house, rather than the roof of your car.
 
moXJO said:
He didn't say a new mx5 did he?
I'm seeing 2016 models for $30k range
He also said 5 years ago on a 2 year older model.
Click to expand...
He was making a point that EV’s can’t compare to an ICE vehicle at a price point that is not applicable.

At this current time, the resale value of an ICE car & an EV is very subjective. The MX-5 is a sports car, an EV near enough to compete would be a Tesla, however the resale value is close to new pricing. So I took his example as a comparison between new vehicles.

A new MX-5 convertible is $50G, a base model Tesla M3 is rear wheel drive & has very decent handling and acceleration plus a glass roof, and the pricing is not too far off of a MX-5.
 
divs4ever said:
it is also possible battery technology options will change

would you buy an EV with a 300km range , but you drive less than 100 km a week ( almost every week of the year )

i see some makers making a limited range ( much cheaper ) model for the masses , sure they might not be popular outside the city , but guess where a lot of pollution is ( hint it isn't on the Atherton Tableland )
Click to expand...
A 300km range EV would suit almost everyone, think about it if you start each day with 300km of range because you charge each night, there wouldn’t be that often you would need to charge using public chargers.

Then even on the day you do need more than 300km, you just need to charge at a public charge enough to get you home, which might only take as little as 3 mins of charging.

And on road trips stopping for 15 mins would add an extra 200km of range, which would mean you travel 500km with just one 15 min charging/ bathroom break, that’s well within most peoples routine stops anyway and you didn’t have to make a stop before the road to top up, another 15 mins gets you to 700km, which most petrol cars would be fueling up twice to get that far (eg once at the start of the road trip and once before the 700km mark some where)
 
undoubtedly we will suffer ( unless someone totally unexpected gets in , and no guarantees there either )

Albo is Albo , a bit like Bernie Sanders has had the same core policies for decades ( but not exactly the same policies as Bernie ) and they are unpopular with roughly 50% of the people ( which is why the ALP took so long to pick him as leader )

one problem is various governments ( over the decades ) have made commitments they cannot deliver on ( and might never have intended to deliver on ) we have made enemies where we could have had mutually beneficial trading partners

all that bad karma usually hits you when you are weakened

we have enough bright people to help with the pollution issue , but we use nepotism instead of the merit-system

this nation COULD be self-sufficient if it wanted to be , but we have way more bureaucrats than inventors and engineers ( oh WAIT i know where they are , working as painters , taxi-drivers , behind the counter at the convenience store , on early retirement .. etc etc )

an election result will not fix this
 
Value Collector said:
A 300km range EV would suit almost everyone, think about it if you start each day with 300km of range because you charge each night, there wouldn’t be that often you would need to charge using public chargers.

Then even on the day you do need more than 300km, you just need to charge at a public charge enough to get you home, which might only take as little as 3 mins of charging.

And on road trips stopping for 15 mins would add an extra 200km of range, which would mean you travel 500km with just one 15 min charging/ bathroom break, that’s well within most peoples routine stops anyway and you didn’t have to make a stop before the road to top up, another 15 mins gets you to 700km, which most petrol cars would be fueling up twice to get that far (eg once at the start of the road trip and once before the 700km mark some where)
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i would have gone the other way and used EVs as government vehicles for urban employees ( maybe even as part of the salary package for low level management ) but plenty of the government fleets are relatively low kilometre and urban use )

i am sure someone like VW would draw up some sort of deal even a mix of body styles ( sedans , light vans and utes )

that way at the end of the lease the batteries repacked , some reconditioning elsewhere and sold into the second hand market ( much like a retired taxi )

EVs most workers could afford
 
Value Collector said:
There isn’t enough surface area on a car to capture a usable amount of solar to make it worthwhile, especially because people prefer to park their car in the shade.

you are better off putting solar panels on the roof of your house, rather than the roof of your car.
Click to expand...
there are solar arrays on my property the gotchya is it feeds the excess into the grid , now if the home battery pack regulations ever become sensible , i will reconsider that option

the car-roof solar is not intended to power the car , but lighten the drain on the battery ( and give redundancy if stranded .. say recharge your phone and say hazard lighting )
 
divs4ever said:
there are solar arrays on my property the gotchya is it feeds the excess into the grid , now if the home battery pack regulations ever become sensible , i will reconsider that option

the car-roof solar is not intended to power the car , but lighten the drain on the battery ( and give redundancy if stranded .. say recharge your phone and say hazard lighting )
Click to expand...
It’s better to have that solar panel sitting on your roof, in full sun everyday, feeding into the grid earning you credits that you can use to charge with later, than to have that solar panel sitting on your car that is parked in the garage in the shade, not earning anything.

A well placed, north facing panel only generates about 1.6 kWh per day in perfect conditions.

But your average mid sized car would barely have enough usable space to fit a full panel on it, and it would not be ideal conditions all day, because some times it would be facing the wrong way or in the shade etc, meaning you might only produce less than a quarter of the power a roof top panel would.

So having solar on a car would only generate you maybe enough charge to drive 4 kms per day, and that’s ignoring the fact that having your car parked in the sun would mean your AC has to work harder, perhaps taking away any benefit gained.
 
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